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05-19-2017, 07:43 AM   #1
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K-1 + DFA 28-105 mirror slap / shutter shock etc

So few weeks (months?) after I initially found the issue with this specific combo (this thread SR inconsistencies - PentaxForums.com), and few trips to different locations with it, I'm positive that I'm either outside of the spec or expected results with my combo, or that SR (or whatever causes the issues, tbd) just doesn't work well with this lens. It behaves differently with say smaller 50 primes or my tamron 70-200, I really want to try to determine what could be the issue. As i mentioned in another thread, at wide setting I can't get tack sharp results hand-holding after 1/25, but can get very sharp images under 1/25, and also anything beyond 1/250. What's annoying is that due to slower aperture of the lens, and the sweet spot of it being at around f8, I rarely can get enough light with 1/250 without turning up the iso which I would prefer to avoid. So I either need to turn aperture to very high values f13-16 to work with 1/25 and under (not ideal of course), or turn aperture down and try to achieve a good exposure at 1/250 +. It's quite limiting, and while I love the results I'm getting out of the lens and I like the build quality, and convenience is immense (weight + size). But if I can easier get better results with the DFA 24-70 (meaning higher range of usable shutter speeds), then I'd rather sell it and upgrade to that. So, if anyone has this kit - I'd love to hear your experience (and sample photos if possible ), does my case sound like it's out of spec, and possibly warrants a warranty repair?

Thanks!

05-19-2017, 08:11 AM   #2
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I think I have read something like this before, that Pentax sensor shifting shake reduction does not work very well around 1/125 speed. Maybe it is because somehow the frequency of SR moving and mirror/shutter movement at that speed interfere each other? -- But you found it is lens-specific. We need someone knows better to answer the question.
That was reported on APS camera. K1 has difference sizes of sensor and mirror and shutter, so I am quite surprise that it happens at similar speed.
05-19-2017, 08:12 AM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
K-1 + DFA 28-105 mirror slap / shutter shock etc
It's easy. If you are looking after tack sharp images at shutter speeds between 1/30th and 1/200th, use the electronic shutter.
Also having the DFA24-70, I like the size and versatility of the DFA28-105, but I prefer the rending of the DFA24-70.
05-19-2017, 09:03 AM   #4
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I haven't used the 28-105 so I can't comment on that but I do notice the shutter release feels different in my hands depending on which lens I have on my K-1. graham could be onto somthing and maybe that combo is causing some kind of weird harmonic resonance that causes issues at certain shutter speeds. Do you get the same result at all focal lengths?

Oh, and the 24-70 is an absolute joy to use on the K-1 if you don't mind the weight.

05-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's easy. If you are looking after tack sharp images at shutter speeds between 1/30th and 1/200th, use the electronic shutter.
Also having the DFA24-70, I like the size and versatility of the DFA28-105, but I prefer the rending of the DFA24-70.
So SR is not suppose to help with achieving sharp images 1/30-1/200? I prefer shooting via OVF when I'm on the streets (and where I usually shoot hand-held).
Have you had similar issues with 24-70 hand-held via OVF?

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 11:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RoccoStiglitz Quote
I haven't used the 28-105 so I can't comment on that but I do notice the shutter release feels different in my hands depending on which lens I have on my K-1. graham could be onto somthing and maybe that combo is causing some kind of weird harmonic resonance that causes issues at certain shutter speeds. Do you get the same result at all focal lengths?

Oh, and the 24-70 is an absolute joy to use on the K-1 if you don't mind the weight.
I don't mind the weight at all. I mean if I only take 1 lens then might as well be the best one I can have. It's frustrating that the mirror slap range is so damn large, 1/30 all the way to 1/200, it's insane!

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 11:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RoccoStiglitz Quote
I haven't used the 28-105 so I can't comment on that but I do notice the shutter release feels different in my hands depending on which lens I have on my K-1. graham could be onto somthing and maybe that combo is causing some kind of weird harmonic resonance that causes issues at certain shutter speeds. Do you get the same result at all focal lengths?

Oh, and the 24-70 is an absolute joy to use on the K-1 if you don't mind the weight.
I believe it's very similar up to 50-60mm, then it's even worse because of the telephoto range, can't get away with 1/25 anymore majority of times, so need to go up to 1/250 and bump the iso or open up aperture. Pretty limiting. Pity, because I really like the lens optically.
05-19-2017, 11:47 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
So SR is not suppose to help with achieving sharp images 1/30-1/200? I prefer shooting via OVF when I'm on the streets (and where I usually shoot hand-held).
Have you had similar issues with 24-70 hand-held via OVF?

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 11:06 AM ----------



I don't mind the weight at all. I mean if I only take 1 lens then might as well be the best one I can have. It's frustrating that the mirror slap range is so damn large, 1/30 all the way to 1/200, it's insane!

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 11:08 AM ----------



I believe it's very similar up to 50-60mm, then it's even worse because of the telephoto range, can't get away with 1/25 anymore majority of times, so need to go up to 1/250 and bump the iso or open up aperture. Pretty limiting. Pity, because I really like the lens optically.

Have you tested this on a tripod? Maybe test shots with SR on and off to see if there is a difference? It also couldn't hurt to reach out to Ricoh and see what their customer service has to say. It's not a terribly expensive item so maybe order another one through a retailer with a good exchange policy. If the new lens is good then sell the old one and if not exchange it and put the cash towards a 24-70?
05-19-2017, 11:47 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
So SR is not suppose to help with achieving sharp images 1/30-1/200? I prefer shooting via OVF when I'm on the streets (and where I usually shoot hand-held).
It's not really the SR's fault- on the K-1, shutter vibrations can introduce softness, especially around 1/90s, 1/125s, and 1/180s. There are other threads on this topic if you'd like more info, and also, based on my experience, some cameras have it worse than others- there seems to be some variation/tolerance in the shutter performance.

To address this, the electronic front curtain shutter option was added.

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05-19-2017, 12:07 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RoccoStiglitz Quote
Have you tested this on a tripod? Maybe test shots with SR on and off to see if there is a difference? It also couldn't hurt to reach out to Ricoh and see what their customer service has to say. It's not a terribly expensive item so maybe order another one through a retailer with a good exchange policy. If the new lens is good then sell the old one and if not exchange it and put the cash towards a 24-70?
I use ES on the tripod for ultimate sharpness) so tripod is not my concern, I'm totally happy in that regard. The issue is when I want to take my K-1 on a trip to a city for example, when I usually take 1 or 2 lens max (these days it's the 28-105 and a small prime). I'm not sure that problem is with the lens, I'd rather thing it's the combination of my copy of K-1 and the lens. I might call Ricoh, see what they say.

05-19-2017, 01:23 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I use ES on the tripod for ultimate sharpness) so tripod is not my concern, I'm totally happy in that regard. The issue is when I want to take my K-1 on a trip to a city for example, when I usually take 1 or 2 lens max (these days it's the 28-105 and a small prime). I'm not sure that problem is with the lens, I'd rather thing it's the combination of my copy of K-1 and the lens. I might call Ricoh, see what they say.
My thought was if you could recreate the problem on a tripod you might move closer to figuring out what the issue is. If you can duplicate it there it's gonna be hard for Ricoh to point to somthing other than a hardware issue.
05-19-2017, 02:39 PM   #10
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Last summer I tried to take panoramics with my K-1 late afternoon-sunset. Shutter speeds were slower up to about 250 or so. On tripod, SR was off, IR remote. Could not get sharp images. Didn't matter what lens. Finally gave up and used my K-5IIs. Wasted a lot of good light. Haven't been panoramic shooting with it since, need to take it out and test it again before warranty expires. Only got good panos fast shutter speed. Could be the reason Pentax came out with the ES option with the bios upgrade.
05-19-2017, 02:43 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by rgknief60 Quote
Last summer I tried to take panoramics with my K-1 late afternoon-sunset. Shutter speeds were slower up to about 250 or so. On tripod, SR was off, IR remote. Could not get sharp images. Didn't matter what lens. Finally gave up and used my K-5IIs. Wasted a lot of good light. Haven't been panoramic shooting with it since, need to take it out and test it again before warranty expires. Only got good panos fast shutter speed. Could be the reason Pentax came out with the ES option with the bios upgrade.
I personally only experienced the issue at shutter speeds I marker. 1/250 and above is sharp
05-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
So SR is not suppose to help with achieving sharp images 1/30-1/200?
SR help when the shutter speed is below 1/focal length, it's not absolute. If you use 24mm , basically you need 1/24 or faster shutter speed without SR. You need SR ON if your lens is at 70mm and shutter speed 1/20th.
Usually, if your shutter speed is slower than 1/200th, that mean you aren't shooting moving subjects (expect if your intention is to create blur), you can therefore use the electronic shutter for max. sharpness.
05-19-2017, 03:54 PM   #13
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Everyone should see Adam's post above (quoted below). While my particular combination of K-1 and 28~105 only suffers frustrating softness at the lower shutter speeds that I use indoors (1/30 to <1/125), using the EFCS seems to have helped!

Additionally, using the FA77 instead of the 28~105 seems to reduce the issue to virtual insignificance.

Now if I could get a FW Update for hand shake I'd be good to go.
.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's not really the SR's fault- on the K-1, shutter vibrations can introduce softness, especially around 1/90s, 1/125s, and 1/180s. There are other threads on this topic if you'd like more info, and also, based on my experience, some cameras have it worse than others- there seems to be some variation/tolerance in the shutter performance.

To address this, the electronic front curtain shutter option was added.
05-19-2017, 05:03 PM   #14
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I agree, issue is not as prominent with other lenses. It's just that I use that lens so often, it frustrates me that I can't get sharp results with a wide range of shutter speeds. I'll try es, thanks for suggestion
05-19-2017, 05:21 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I'll try es, thanks for suggestion
That's been my workaround. Only time it doesn't work are the times I forget there are florescent lights overhead.
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