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05-31-2017, 05:19 AM   #1
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Eventual FA* 300mm F2.8 Update/Refresh???

For the last year, I've been the proud owner of a Tamron 300mm f2.8 AF lens, and though I am incredibly pleased with the lens overall, especially in regards to its 'cost:effectiveness' ratio, I'm stuck in a little bit of a conundrum when it comes to upgrading to a better lens. I find that the screwdrive AF, while perfectly workable on most lenses, isn't suited to the combination of telephoto and shallow depth of field, occasionally leading to minor focus issues. Secondly, it isn't WR or AW, which is a major detriment in my enviroment and field of work. A modern replacement would be great.

Therefore, after Ricoh releases their current roadmapped lenses (AFAIK, DFA fisheye zoom, DFA 20mm?, DFA* 35mm f1.4, DFA* 50mm f1.4, DFA* 85mm f1.4), it'd be great if they could release a modern D-FA* 300mm f2.8, along with possibly 1.4x and 2x teleconverters.

Out of all the gaps in the lens lineup after the roadmapped lenses, this would provide us with a excellent 300mm f2.8, 420mm f4 and 600mm f5.6 focal lengths in one release. Just price it competitively at between $4000-6000 USD and I'm sure it'll add a huge missing capability to the lineup.

I know I know, the Pentax system isn't sports photography orientated, but a good 300mm 2.8 is essential to a huge amount of working pros, and without a modern lens in the lineup, it does alienate a lot of potential buyers, and forces pros like me to look elsewhere for what is almost standard across lens linups (Oly 150mm f2, Canon 300mm f2.8, Nikon 300mm f2.8, Sony A 300mm f2.8).

Oh well, one can only hope right! 😂😂😂

05-31-2017, 05:30 AM   #2
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Pentax definitely isn't the company for folks looking for new telephoto glass. Personally it's not something I'm expecting. It takes a couple of things to put out a lens like that. Either a commitment to investments with slow returns like Sony or very large market share, like Nikon and Canon. So, while it would be nice for folks who want it, it's pretty unlikely.
05-31-2017, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Agree that a new DFA 300 f2.8 is not likely as Pentax's market share is so low that how many would purchase it; except for you?
05-31-2017, 07:18 AM   #4
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I was looking at the lens database this weekend and was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't mind getting a FA*300 2.8 though but the lens that really cought my eye was the A* 400 2.8.

It would be nice it Pentax did come out with new DFA 600/F4 and 400, 300 2.8 but probably won't happen. Like others have said, just doesn't seem like there is big enough market for them.

I must admit I have looked at Nikon and Canon long lens selection and thought about adding a second system but I would much rather stick with my Pentax.

05-31-2017, 07:25 AM   #5
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The DFA 50 and 85 f1.4 lenses are the sensible primes to provide first (I'm an owner of the FA limiteds, so will probably skip them myself, although I might consider the 50mm at some point). An ultra wide prime is the biggest gap in the current line up if you ask me. A DFA 1.4 teleconverter probably makes sense for those wanting to extend the range of the 150-450 zoom.

As for the telephoto range, I own both the DA*200 and DA*300. If Pentax updated those to include the improved focussing system of the new 55-300, I'd say that relatively minor update would be good enough as a stop gap. Of the two, the DA*200 could probably do with a bit more of an optical update, the 300 optically is fantastic imho.

Whilst an updated 300 f2.8 would excite some people, so would a 135mm f1.8, 50mm f1.2, 24mm TS, 200mm macro, or any of the other legacy legends in their back catalogue. There's only so much budget that Pentax can spend on new glass. Whilst I mainly want an ultra wide prime, you want a 300mm f2.8, and others lust after compact F4 zooms. They can't appease everyone, but personally I'm just glad Pentax now has a FF camera, and that Ricoh is investing in new glass. An update of the FA* 85mm is on the way, and that will probably excite more people than a new 300mm f2.8 (we have the f4, which most people would be entirely happy with)

I'm not into zooms at all, but I don't begrudge the 5 FF zooms that have been released. Yeah I'd prefer more primes, but the fact I can say there are 5 new FF zooms at all, is a lot more than I could say back in the Hoya years. It's nice to finally see this forum full of "I'm new to Pentax, and have just bought a k-1" posts, rather than the "I'm leaving Pentax for a 5D/D800" ones.
05-31-2017, 09:26 AM   #6
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Pentax choose to release a really long 5.6/560 mm for APS-C. A 2.8/300 plus fullframe TCs would have opened the door for a new line of long glass. Looks like they missed it - or assume that 4/300 and 5.6/560 plus a zoom will do the trick. THe 560 mm design is not that appealing - it΄s long. 2.8/300, 4/500 and 5.6/600 would be great lenses, but I don΄t see it happening. 2.8/400 and 4/600 are out of the range for Pentax and their user base. Just get your CaNikon lens in this category and the body will be free ...
05-31-2017, 11:50 AM   #7
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As manny as Pentax is not exactly a sports oriented brand, they caught people by surprise when they released the 70-200 and the 150-450 zooms, so I don't think is that unlikely they could develop some pro super telephoto. There is the legendary FA* 250-600 and the FA*600, and they are been doing quite good at building an consistent new user base, so my guess is there will be a market for some tele prime. Even if it is only one 300 or 400 2.8.

So I think Ricoh knows that creating good telephoto lenses are as important as good primes, because that's what they delivered us with the K1 release.

For me, I think they could update all DA* line, with, at least, new AF drive and constructions. The DA* 300 have a lot of good reviews, and is one that will be a hot seller if a good update is made, even among Full Frame users.

Time will tell if our wishes will be filled, but I think Ricoh are in a good direction. Although in a very slow pace...

05-31-2017, 01:29 PM   #8
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You can look at this other ways, they had to have the 15-30, the 24-70 and the 70-200, just to have the base kit that so many Canon and Nikon users enjoy.

The 150-450 should have been a 200-600. 150-450 doesn't keep them in the 150-600 league and also doesn't get them into the ƒ4 premium lens league for telephoto. It's almost like a complete compromise, " we can't do all that so we'll do this, but it will have to do for everyone."

The 560 ƒ5.6 is the "long" lens, so if you're waiting for a 600 ƒ5.6, you'll never notice the missing 40mm. It's really a pretty complete ling up, Especially since on APS-c the 560 works tie the 1.4, which gives you 800 ƒ8.

Going to Nikon you can get 600 ƒ4. If you can afford it, you can also afford a body to go with it.

What might convince Pentax to go to a 600 ƒ4 would be selling out all of their 560 ƒ5.6 blanks and having to look at either a re-release or a new design. And I'm willing to bet once the 560 has sold out, they bring out something more traditional, like a 600 ƒ4. But you guys are going to have to collectively spend a pile of dough to use up all the 560 parts waiting for assembly in the warehouse.

Selling out all their long glass will quickly convince them there is a market.
05-31-2017, 02:41 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What might convince Pentax to go to a 600 ƒ4 would be selling out all of their 560 ƒ5.6 blanks and having to look at either a re-release or a new design. And I'm willing to bet once the 560 has sold out, they bring out something more traditional, like a 600 ƒ4. But you guys are going to have to collectively spend a pile of dough to use up all the 560 parts waiting for assembly in the warehouse.

Selling out all their long glass will quickly convince them there is a market.
I think Norm makes sense here, so everyone needs to order a 560 tonight!
05-31-2017, 04:09 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You can look at this other ways, they had to have the 15-30, the 24-70 and the 70-200, just to have the base kit that so many Canon and Nikon users enjoy.

The 150-450 should have been a 200-600. 150-450 doesn't keep them in the 150-600 league and also doesn't get them into the ƒ4 premium lens league for telephoto. It's almost like a complete compromise, " we can't do all that so we'll do this, but it will have to do for everyone."

The 560 ƒ5.6 is the "long" lens, so if you're waiting for a 600 ƒ5.6, you'll never notice the missing 40mm. It's really a pretty complete ling up, Especially since on APS-c the 560 works tie the 1.4, which gives you 800 ƒ8.

Going to Nikon you can get 600 ƒ4. If you can afford it, you can also afford a body to go with it.

What might convince Pentax to go to a 600 ƒ4 would be selling out all of their 560 ƒ5.6 blanks and having to look at either a re-release or a new design. And I'm willing to bet once the 560 has sold out, they bring out something more traditional, like a 600 ƒ4. But you guys are going to have to collectively spend a pile of dough to use up all the 560 parts waiting for assembly in the warehouse.

Selling out all their long glass will quickly convince them there is a market.
For me, the DA 560mm f5.6 is actually quite the attractive lens, and one that I've been weighing up purchasing for quite some time. My main issue with it is that its not a particularly flexible lens for the work I do (mainly sport and event photography). Just looking at a few sports, it would be an excellent lens for cricket, but aside from that, most other sports run into dusk, and the f5.6 apeture makes that quite the more difficult. A 300mm f2.8 on the otherhand, is much more flexible, especially when paired with a well matching teleconverter.

For events on the otherhand, a 560mm f5.6 lens is pretty much useless, whereas a 300mm f2.8 lens is great for stage/public speaking events, allowing good subject isolation compared to a 300mm f4/250mm f4 lens.

On the lens front, I pretty much own or have owned all of the D-FA lenses, currently 15-30mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 100mm 2.8, and personally don't find the 150-450mm lens attractive (I'm not interested in non-internal zoom telephotos after both the Sig 150-500 and the DA* 60-250), so I am quite invested in the K-mount system for better or for worse. Maybe I'll just have to suck it up and buy the DA 560mm f5.6 and hope it goes well 😂.
05-31-2017, 04:19 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by robthebloke Quote
As for the telephoto range, I own both the DA*200 and DA*300. If Pentax updated those to include the improved focussing system of the new 55-300, I'd say that relatively minor update would be good enough as a stop gap. Of the two, the DA*200 could probably do with a bit more of an optical update, the 300 optically is fantastic imho.

.
I wonder what the take rate would be on a revised 300mm f4 with an improved focusing system and some FF-compatible WR teleconverters...

If the IQ is awesome, how many could live with the loss of a stop considering the vastly improved low light performance of modern cameras...

-Eric
05-31-2017, 04:29 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I wonder what the take rate would be on a revised 300mm f4 with an improved focusing system and some FF-compatible WR teleconverters...

If the IQ is awesome, how many could live with the loss of a stop considering the vastly improved low light performance of modern cameras...

-Eric
For me, the biggest problem with f4 lenses compared with f2.8 lenses is AF speed. Inherently, a 300mm f2.8 provides twice as much information for the AF system to work with compared to a 300mm f4 lens. In good light, its not that detrimental, but as it get darker, you'll quickly notice that while a camera might be able to take clean photos in low light (due to good signal/noise ratio at high ISO), the AF system begins to slow down considerably, and 1 stop of light at that point makes a huge difference in high paced sports in low light (think Netball/Basketball/Baseball).
05-31-2017, 04:42 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by robthebloke Quote
I own both the DA*200 and DA*300. If Pentax updated those to include the improved focussing system of the new 55-300, I'd say that relatively minor update would be good enough as a stop gap.
PLM is not powerful enough for the heavy elements in those lenses. A DC motor like the DFA*70-200 and DA560 would be the better option.

As for a 300/2.8, I think a more sports-oriented body would have to come out first.
05-31-2017, 05:07 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joshua A Quote
For me, the DA 560mm f5.6 is actually quite the attractive lens, and one that I've been weighing up purchasing for quite some time. ...whereas a 300mm f2.8 lens is great for stage/public speaking events, allowing good subject isolation compared to a 300mm f4/250mm f4 lens.
Very different usages ... you should own both, Joshua.
05-31-2017, 05:07 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
PLM is not powerful enough for the heavy elements in those lenses. A DC motor like the DFA*70-200 and DA560 would be the better option.

As for a 300/2.8, I think a more sports-oriented body would have to come out first.
In regards to the DA* lenses, I think Ricoh has a really easy ability to reinvigorate these lenses.

The DA* 200 f2.8 needs a completely new design, as I found in my experience tgat the optical performance is below modern stardards.

The DA* 300mm f2.8 on the otherhand just needs mostly cosmetic refresh to bring it inline with the new DFA's with a better AF motor, and the same tripod foot as the DFA*70-200/DFA150-450 lenses for compatibility.

As another possibility, they should definitely refresh the DA* 60-250mm f4 in the same way as the DA* 300mm f4, as even though I'm not a fan, it does have a lot of fans with Pentaxians, and would make for a good 70-200mm f4 esque lens.

As for the 300mm f2.8, I have a feeling the upcoming K3iii will be a more speed orientated body, in order to keep the price premium wuth APS-C bodies now that the K1 has been released!

---------- Post added 06-01-17 at 09:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Very different usages ... you should own both, Joshua.
I may end up doing so, as I'm never gonna be selling of this Tamron 300mm f2.8 AF considering it cost me ~$450 USD to buy 😂

---------- Post added 06-01-17 at 09:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Very different usages ... you should own both, Joshua.
I may end up doing so, as I'm never gonna be selling of this Tamron 300mm f2.8 AF considering it cost me ~$450 USD to buy 😂
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