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06-14-2017, 02:59 AM   #1
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IS the Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA 150-450mm really an upgrade over my DA* 300mm f4?

Please help me decide, this is a lot of money to me.

I found a really nice bargain for a refurbished Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW Lens.

I shoot birds, preferably BIFs. Also all sorts of other species, but mostly nature. I LOVE my 300mm, but of course the reach is in the short end. Most of my best shots (nearly all) are cropped in post processing.

If I buy this, I want to be absolutely sure that the lens performs at 450mm. Reviews suggest that it does.

I had a Bigma before my 300mm DA*. Cropped 300mm photos are WAY sharper than what the Bigma delivered at 500mm, and the bokeh is WAY prettier.

Comparing the two lenses, there are obvious plusses and minusses:

My DA* would win on weight - presumably build (hard to match?) - handling (easy to shoot hand-held)
The DFA would win on reach, obviously, but how about feather details at 50 meter distance? How about AF speed? And bokeh?
DFA would be K1 compatible, potentially, but from what I hear the DA* 300mm works well on FF also.
DA* is f4, while the DFA is 5.6 at the long end - but I hardly ever shoot wide open anyway because it makes the focus plane too narrow for most birds.

Please help me decide: Should I spend all my money on this? I really want to - but will I regret it? Would you consider the upgrade significant?

My plan has been to save for the Sigma 500mm f4.5 - but they are really hard to come by. And this one is cheaper...

06-14-2017, 03:41 AM - 1 Like   #2
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From what I have seen I like the rendering of the DA* 300mm better. (not that the D FA isn't sharp. It is) Pentax has said it is compatible with the K-1 and the K-1 has a lens profile for it. The DFA being a zoom is more flexible. On aps-c you can use the the rear converter to increase the DA*'s range (420mm). (the converter isn't FF compatible and also can be used on the D FA). The D FA has a focus limiter and AF-function buttons, making life easier for the photographer. It also has a better focus engine than de DA*. For reach and speed the D FA is better (and probably will improve on newer Pentax bodies like the K-3 II successor), for IQ I like the DA* better (but that's a personal preference and probably due to it being a prime with less lens elements). In short The D FA is the better tool and the DA* the better lens. I would say keep the DA* and get the D FA too. (because I am not a believer of selling lenses ).
06-14-2017, 04:17 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Full-frame AF teleconverters are available (older Pentax, reliable third-party) that will bring your 300/4 up to a 420/5.6 and there are several BIF addicts here who have even done work with stacking teleconverters, with good results in bright light. Ask @normhead as he is one of our most prominent birders on the forum.

This would get you close to the long end of the 150-450 at nowhere near the expense. You would have your reach. The issue for you to decide is then whether the zoom's flexibility is worth the extra money.
06-14-2017, 05:06 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Addenda to several comments above:
1) 300 + 1.4X is substantially smaller & lighter than the 150-450;
2) The above combination can be used on a k1 in two ways: A) crop mode; and B) FF mode then drop away vignetting in PP. The latter option may be useful for BIF as you have a slightly larger FOV to see and follow the bird.
3) The 150-450 can also be used with the 1.4X, and my personal testing on a standard lens resolution chart using a K3 suggests this combination performs very well @ an actual 600mm (=1.4X with lens @ 450mm), but I cannot imagine success hand holding this combo. A heavy ball or gimbal head on a sturdy tripod is strongly advised.
4) As others have noted, the primary advantage of the 150-450mm, as with almost all zoom lenses, is flexibility at the expense of some loss of IQ compared to high quality prime lenses with focal lengths that fall within the range of the zoom. The majority of zoom lenses perform better at the short end than the long, but, the 150-450 is as good as or better at 450mm than any zoom lens of equivalent FL - significantly better than the original Sigma 50-500 in my personal experience.

06-14-2017, 05:27 AM - 1 Like   #5
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I recently returned from the Gran Tetons and Yellowstone National Parks where I used a modified stedistock II as a support when I didn't have time to set up a tripod with the 150 - 450 mm zoom

we added an additional screw attachment point to it and attached (yes with duct tape) a shortened shotgun stock [my friend who was trying to modify the stedistock for me didn't have time to finish. he was angry with me when I said let's try duct tape (he is a craftsman, I am a realist) but it did work to attach the stock

admittedly not as good as a good tripod but usable, even with the 1.4 rear converter

has the original poster looked at this thread to see how the 150 - 450 mm zoom works with short range targets ??

Post your HD PENTAX-D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW pictures! - PentaxForums.com
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Last edited by aslyfox; 06-15-2017 at 03:50 AM.
06-14-2017, 05:45 AM - 3 Likes   #6
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The issue here is how good is the price.

Most birding is done at the long end. SO on paper a 300 with a TC is almost the same and would be quite functional. Plus you can take off the TC if you need shorter. But overall a zoom is more flexible. My two primes are 200 and 300 are ƒ2.8, that's what makes my TC stacking functional. The 300 ƒ4 didn't interest me simply because of my experience using the TC and the DA*60-250. I don't really like TCs on ƒ4 or slower lenses. But others seem to do OK. I regularly use the HD DA 1.4 TC on both my primes and the DA* 60-250, and results are acceptable.

So for me it would come down to "How good a deal is it? "
Having invested in a 6 pound 300 2.8, (420 ƒ4 with the 1.4 o4 510mm ƒ4.5 with the 1.7) I'm not currently considering the 150-450, but if you don't have a 60-250, 200 and 300 primes, I'm sure it is a lot more attractive. To me, it's a great lens that would take away most of the need for 3 of my other lenses. But I'm used to what i do, and have no desire to change. I can see how it could easily be someone's one and only long telephoto, and it's a great choice for that.

So don't think of it as an expensive lens, think of it as the lens that saves you from buying the 60-250, 200 , 300 and 1.4 and 1.7 TCs lens. All the sudden it sounds like a bargain. I can totally imagine carrying the FA-J 18-35, DFA 28-105 and this lens as a K-1 expedition kit.

As long you can carry it all will be good.

Last edited by normhead; 06-19-2017 at 06:40 AM.
06-14-2017, 05:57 AM - 6 Likes   #7
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Mmm... I have, and used my F*300/4.5 for a year or two before getting the DFA 150-450...... lots of stuff written, pictures posted etc . However I have, and still use my 300 from time to time.... mostly due to it's smaller size (travellong OS etc) .... however I use the 150-450 all the time and don't give the 300 a second thought ..... I also don't have any issues with the 150-450's size from a carrying and shooting perspective. It is definately a harder lens to get results from than the 300..... mostly because your at 450mm a lot.... and it's light transmittance is a stop or so down on the 300.... the money pain only lasted for a short while..... I do like the fl flexabilty mostly... I don't consider the zoom at 300 better then the F*/DA 300... fwiw

I have found having the 150-450 on the camera versus the 300 sees me taking more tele landscape shots and more "bird enviromental" shots.....

Bokeh of the zoom can at times be a bit busy..... good light with the 450 at 450mm can still allow a lot of cropping.... this is a K-1 image at 450mm (iso 2000).... 1/3 crop (12mp)...prints to 24"x24" really nicely on canvas at 150dpi... what more can one want?



Focus on the 150-450 will definately be a step up....


Last edited by noelpolar; 06-14-2017 at 06:24 AM.
06-14-2017, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #8
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For most birds you'll always want maximum zoom. The 150-449 end of the zoom will get little use. I would look for a teleconverter compatible with your existing 300/f4. 420mm is almost as long as the 150-450 while less expensive and more portable.

On the other hand, do you also want to photograph larger wildlife, aviation, or tele landscapes? If yes then go with the flexibility of 150-450. The Sigma 50-500 is my airshow lens because a fixed 300mm is too much zoom for formations or close passes.
06-14-2017, 06:36 AM - 1 Like   #9
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The 150-450 is awesome and will even work well with a teleconverter. I can't complain even wide open.
06-14-2017, 07:16 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
The 150-450 is awesome and will even work well with a teleconverter. I can't complain even wide open.
Thanks to everyone for really thoughtful advice. I bought the 1.7x AF teleconverter at the marketplace here some five years ago, but I practically gave up using it because AF was very imprecise. That was back in the K-7-days though, and I actually never tried it out on my K3. I think there is an old saying about learning to shoot with the gear you own first...

But when I consider ALL your good advice together, this stands out:

1) I suppose I am really just looking for an excuse to justify spending this much on something selfish
2) When someone picks a username like VoiceOfReason, and writes "The 150-450 is awesome", I feel like this was exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!

Oh, and noelpolar, that photo of yours is REALLY convincing as well!

...now I just need to make my husband read this thread and say "go buy it!"
06-14-2017, 08:02 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
When someone picks a username like VoiceOfReason
It doesn't always mean they're right (that said, though no two people here will always agree on everything, I have found VOR to largely live up to the name).

Then again, flicking to the other extreme and calling oneself something like "Father Of Lies" would not exactly be likely to get many people heeding one's advice (even when it's true)
06-14-2017, 08:53 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
...now I just need to make my husband read this thread and say "go buy it!"
We'll get a petition going on your behalf !
06-14-2017, 08:56 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
.now I just need to make my husband read this thread and say "go buy it!"
What's his favourite meal ? Cook it twice - then ask !!
06-14-2017, 09:23 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
We'll get a petition going on your behalf !
Ya, give us all his email address. We'll start dropping subtle hints.
06-14-2017, 09:29 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, give us all his email address. We'll start dropping subtle hints.
Subtle hints from this group


Nothing too likely

IMHO, YMMV
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