Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bayern
Photos: Albums
Posts: 171
best pixel peeper lens

So coming from canon FF, i'm sorely disappointed with the pixel peeping on my K1. photo is

Despite having 55% more pixels, my k1 seems less sharp at 1:1 than my old 6D.

To be fair, i rocked zeiss 21, 50, 100 milvus with my 6d and i'm rocking the 24-70, DFA*70-200, 100macro, zeiss zk 25, and samyang 14 with my K1.

Look I know that pixel peeping is taboo, and i get that 1:1 is no-mans' land, but i want to make better use of this fantastic sensor.

What is the sharpest lens compatible with my K1?

Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 
06-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #2
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,097
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote

Despite having 55% more pixels, my k1 seems less sharp at 1:1 than my old 6D.
Sorry I can't help you much with the question but you seem to have the above backwards. It's really quite a lot easier to have good 1:1 sharpness with a low resolution camera as it's more forgiving. To get perfect, at the pixel level, shots with 36MP you need perfect conditions, sturdy tripod, no shuttershock, etc etc. I believe nikon felt the need to issue a warning document with instructions how to succeed with 36MP resolution.

The photo above seems surprisingly soft though...
06-18-2017, 02:24 PM   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bayern
Photos: Albums
Posts: 171
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Sorry I can't help you much with the question but you seem to have the above backwards. It's really quite a lot easier to have good 1:1 sharpness with a low resolution camera as it's more forgiving. To get perfect, at the pixel level, shots with 36MP you need perfect conditions, sturdy tripod, no shuttershock, etc etc. I believe nikon felt the need to issue a warning document with instructions how to succeed with 36MP resolution.

The photo above seems surprisingly soft though...
SOOC jpeg... manfrotto 210 tripod and wired remote; i'm not new to this...
06-18-2017, 02:38 PM   #4
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2013
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 157
I find that pictures uploaded via the PF forums are always super soft, probably due to compression and such. Rather try flickr.
Could it be that the RAW files have different sharpening applied straight out the camera ?

06-18-2017, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Buffy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Greater Boston area, Massachusetts
Posts: 381
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
What is the sharpest lens compatible with my K1?
If you can find it, the Pentax FA* 200 f/4 macro might be it.
06-18-2017, 03:12 PM   #6
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 49,615
QuoteOriginally posted by quh86 Quote
I find that pictures uploaded via the PF forums are always super soft, probably due to compression and such. Rather try flickr.
Could it be that the RAW files have different sharpening applied straight out the camera ?
There's no compression as long as you upload within the resolution limits.

As for the OP's question, the 70-200mm should give you some really good results as long as your setup is stable. Other sharp AF lenses include the Sigma 35mm F1.4 (one of my favorites), FA 31mm, FA 77mm. I'm also sure that the upcoming D FA* 50mm and 85mm will be stellar.

Note that you may get some shutter-induced softness at shutter speeds between 1/90s and 1/250s. For the sharpest shots, use live view. And of course, for even sharper results, there's pixel shift

Another "issue" specific to Pentax is that fine details get washed away in JPEG shots. While this has been improved to an extent in the latest K-70 and KP, you will always get the best detail in raw mode.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-18-2017, 03:16 PM   #7
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: California
Posts: 620
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
SOOC jpeg... manfrotto 210 tripod and wired remote; i'm not new to this...

I know what you are saying about about trying to get the most out of the sensor. Im a fan of the limited lenses, granted probably not the best for pixelpeeping. Those lenses should be great, might need to be micro adjusted.
Id say if you are using sooc jpeg, switch over to manipulating the raw files. You are able to get more out of the sensor then what the jpegs allow.


06-18-2017, 03:49 PM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,040
Subscribed to this thread
@bigoak
I don't have a K-1 but I am interesting to see the result images from both system. hope you will update some more picture and what you find out later on.

QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
...What is the sharpest lens compatible with my K1?
As for the question about Pentax sharp lenses for your test.
I guess many 50 mm can do the job. Good reputation 50mm such as D FA* 50mm, FA50 macro, F50 macro, M50 f1.7are know to be very sharp on my K-3.

And as Adam said on the shutter-induced problem. Go for live view on tripod (lock the mirror up) could help too. As on my cases; when use remote control, it means the shake reduction system is automatically off. And when I shoot with tripod extended; shutter induced camera shake is common to me at first. Now I almost always stabilize my tripod by adding weight to tripod center column using camera bag or something heavy enough. I didn't have to worry about this problem as much on a lower pixel count sensor camera, K-5.


Last edited by pakinjapan; 06-18-2017 at 04:54 PM.
06-18-2017, 04:33 PM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,888
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
So coming from canon FF, i'm sorely disappointed with the pixel peeping on my K1.

To be fair, i rocked zeiss 21, 50, 100 milvus with my 6d and i'm rocking the 24-70, DFA*70-200, 100macro, zeiss zk 25, and samyang 14 with my K1.

What is the sharpest lens compatible with my K1?
The K-1 sensor easily outperforms your Canon FF, but Zeiss primes are going to easily outperform just about any zoom.

My top pick for the sharpest Pentax AF prime is the FA 31mm Limited with the FA 77mm Limited (both f/1.8) as an excellent short telephoto.

Pentax smcP FA 31mm f/1.8 Limited Lens (Black) 20290 B&H Photo
Pentax Telephoto SMCP-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited Series 27980 B&H

The Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4 is also exceptional:
Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens for Pentax DSLR Cameras 340109

If pixel peeping is the goal, then a solid tripod with pixel shift will get you the most out of the K-1.

Although there is some controversy about this, or rather different opinions, I would recommend keeping SR off and just using 1/250" and above in good light when handholding your shots.
06-18-2017, 05:05 PM - 1 Like   #10
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,183
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
Look I know that pixel peeping is taboo, and i get that 1:1 is no-mans' land, but i want to make better use of this fantastic sensor.
We actually had a couple threads like this, so you can search for those. I think the lenses mentioned the most were Sigma 35mm Art, Samyang 135mm (and maybe Samyang 14mm), Pentax FA 31mm, FA 77mm, DA* 55mm, DFA 50mm macro, DFA 100mm macro, and if you can find the Sigma 70mm macro, and some other macros (Lester dine? Zeiss?),.. The new DFA Pentax zoom lenses are pretty sharp, too. The announced DFA* 50mm f1.4 will most likely rival the Sigma art in sharpness, but hopefully with Pentax colours, contrasts.

That said, I don't have most of those lenses because sharpness is not my priority. There is so much more to photography, and today's high resolution sensors and PP sharpening programs are more than enough for... well, pretty much anything. Dunno who actually truly needs more than a 36MP pixel shifted photo, shot with a tripod and timer with good flash setup and then post-processed for sharpness. You can take a photo like that and it won't change the world, though. Sharpness is a fetish and its moving the lens industry in the direction of bigger and bigger lenses; not necessarily better and better photos.
Good luck, tho. Im sure you'll find plenty of super sharp stuff out there regardless of the system you are using

Last edited by Na Horuk; 06-18-2017 at 05:22 PM.
06-18-2017, 05:31 PM   #11
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,385
1:1 on a 24mp sensor is not 1:1 on a 36mp one.
You are basically 'zooming in' more.
You have to either upscale the 6D image to 36mp or downscale the K1 image to 24mp to better compare.

Flickr won't represent an image fairly for 1:1 comparison/checks.
I have gone thru this before and on Flickr, 1:1 on my K1 with pixel shift won't look any different from a 24mp D610 image.
Upload to a Google Drive for best results.

The 100 macro, Samyang 14 are lenses that I have and I am sure they are pretty fine resolution wise stopped down.
Then there is also the K28/3.5 and most of the Pentax 50mm are really good stopped down too.
In fact most lenses are fine 35mm and up for stopped down shooting.
Its the old wide angles which may not be on par compared to modern offerings for edge sharpness.

I leave a fair bit of pixel shifted images with links to full sized images on Google Drive here :
The Pixel Shift Diaries

Last edited by pinholecam; 06-18-2017 at 06:27 PM.
06-18-2017, 05:32 PM   #12
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,183
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
Despite having 55% more pixels, my k1 seems less sharp at 1:1 than my old 6D.
I should address this as well. You say you are not new to this, but you don't seem to get it. Think about it, if you have a 5MP camera, then each 'pixel' covers more area. The bottleneck is the sensor and all modern lenses will be 'pixel sharp' because they would massively outresolve the camera. A more demanding camera, with 36MP, will require much sharper glass to be 'pixel sharp'.
A more reasonable comparison would be to take the same photo with both cameras and then print them both on the same size of paper. Then the one with the higher MP will have higher DPI and thus appear sharper. That is what total resolution is about.
Even a less sharp lens would give 'more' detail on a 36MP FF than a 20MP FF, because the 36MP one simply captures more total data. But looking at it per pixel, the lower resolution camera might seem sharper because each pixel is less demanding.
Also, looking at 1:1 crops doesn't make much sense because nobody enjoy photography in that way. People look at a photo, not at pixels.

One more thing: You mentioned SOOC jpegs. This is an uncontrolled variable. We don't know how much added contrast, sharpness the camera adds to the raw data when it turns it into a jpeg (and all cameras do this when they turn raw into jpeg). This is most likely different between Canon and Pentax. IF you want to make real comparisons, you would shoot a resolution test target, taking a photo in raw format and compare the photos in the same software (with no added sharpening or lens profiles on either). And bonus points if you use the exact same lens (adapted) on both cameras. That way the only difference would be the cameras and I am sure that test would give an edge to the K-1.

Edit: Btw there was a similar outcry when the Nikon D800 was released. You can search the internet for people complaining about its resolution after just getting it. Vibration shows up more easily, you need sharper glass, CA takes more pixels.. But still, if you print on the same size as a lower res camera at maximum possible DPI, it will give you better results than the lower MP camera. DPI and canvas size are critical for evaluating photos

Last edited by Na Horuk; 06-18-2017 at 05:46 PM.
06-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #13
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,253
didn't see if the FA31 was mentioned, but it is a very respectable sharp prime for K-mount. Should get you good results.
DA70Ltd IMO is sharper than FA77, fwiw.
Too many variable in zooms to permit "vs Zeiss" performance.
Good luck!
06-18-2017, 06:46 PM - 1 Like   #14
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Fenwoodian's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,635
QuoteOriginally posted by bigoak Quote
So coming from canon FF, i'm sorely disappointed with the pixel peeping on my K1. photo is

Despite having 55% more pixels, my k1 seems less sharp at 1:1 than my old 6D.

To be fair, i rocked zeiss 21, 50, 100 milvus with my 6d and i'm rocking the 24-70, DFA*70-200, 100macro, zeiss zk 25, and samyang 14 with my K1.

Look I know that pixel peeping is taboo, and i get that 1:1 is no-mans' land, but i want to make better use of this fantastic sensor.

What is the sharpest lens compatible with my K1?

I am one of the few here who has actually shot most of the lenses that you mention. The underlying issue here is that the Zeiss lenses you shot on your Canon camera are, as a group, sharper than the lenses you've used on your K1 camera.

The folks in this thread who are recommending Pentax 31,70, 77, Sigma 34 etc have likely not shot top of the line Zeiss lenses. The better Zeiss lenses outperform the aforementioned Pentax/Sigma lenses (all of which I have owned and tested on my K1). Unless a photographer has shot numerous Pentax, Sigma AND Zeiss lenses on a K1, how can they possibly claim that Pentax and Sigma lenses are sharper than Zeiss lenses?

The 100 Zeiss Milvus you shot on Canon will of course better the DFA 70-200, and 100macro. Also, the Zeiss 21 you shot on your Canon will beat the 24-70 and Zeiss 25 you shot on your K1.

So you see, it's not a fair comparision because the lenses you were shooting on your Canon were better lenses than the lenses you were shooting on your K1.

The sharpest and overall best single lens on the K1 according to my hundreds of tests and LenScore is the Zeiss Milvus 85 1.4. I own it and nothing else compares, nothing currently from Pentax/Sigma or anyone else. But I'm the only one who knows this because I believe that I'm the only one in the world who has converted this Milvus lens from Nikon F to Pentax K mount (according to owner of Leitax).

You seem to like wide angles lenses too. The Zeiss 21 is readily available in the Nikon ZF mount and is easily converted to Pentax K mount. This lens will shine on your K1, I know, I've owned 2 of them. I have never personally tested the Pentax 15-30 lens, but many excellent photographers here on this forum claim it's great on the K1, and I believe them and have been quite impressed with the images they've posted. That would be a wide angle you just might want to consider too.

The Zeiss Milvus 18/2.8 (all new design) and the Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4 (all new design) are highly rated world class lenses, and are able to be converted to K mount using Leitax adapters. I've owned most of the Pentax 50's and none have impressed me enough to keep them. Also, I've owned two copies of the Pentax FA 20mm f/2.8 lens and it's not as sharp as the Zeiss Classic 21mm lens (and the new Milvus 18/2.8 is said by some to be even sharper than the Zeiss 21mm lens).

I don't think it's realistic to expect the yet-to-be-released, new roadmap Pentax lenses to be world beaters. Ricoh just announced they are in big financial trouble. Let's hope the new lenses are everything and more, but given that we've heard no recent news on the status of these new primes and the recently announced Ricoh deep financial problems I don't think I'd be waiting for these yet to be released lenses.

Your best option now for the best sharpness lies with Leitax adapting Zeiss Milvus lenses (assuming that you are OK with manual focus).

Until recently, I was a Fuji, Nikon and Canon shooter. I own two K1's and strongly believe that Pentax K1's are the best camera out there. In another forum a member compared K1 pixel shift images to Fuji GFX (medium format) images. His conclusion was that the K1 images were sharper! You made a wise choice in buying a Pentax K1. When you find the right lenses to go with it you too will become a K1 believer.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 06-18-2017 at 07:28 PM.
06-18-2017, 07:20 PM - 1 Like   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,888
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I am one of the few here who has actually shot most of the lenses that you mention. The underlying issue here is that the Zeiss lenses you shot on your Canon camera are, as a group, sharper than the lenses you've used on your K1 camera.

I know the Pentax FBs around here will consider this heresy, however, unless you've shot Pentax, Sigma AND Zeiss on a K1, how can you possibly be recommending Pentax and Sigma lenses as being sharper than Zeiss?
a) Fenwood is correct: Zeiss lenses are the sharpest; no comparison.
b) I donʻt think most of the responses were saying that Pentax or Sigma lenses are sharper than Zeiss.
c) Our recommendations are suggestions of better glass (than what the OP currently uses) that are currently sold new. In other words, what is the best that Pentax offers for FF or other K-mount primes like Sigma.

If pixel peeping were the ultimate goal of photography, weʻd all be in debt for a Phase One or Hasselblad with Zeiss primes. Pretty cool that Fenwood found a hybrid solution with an adapter, and I suppose the OP could consider the pros and cons of that too.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
k-mount, k1, lens, pentax lens, pixel, pixel peeper, slr lens, zeiss
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Wide Angle Lens for Pixel Shift Zen4Life Pentax K-1 10 05-13-2016 06:31 PM
Pixel peeper 101 Iksobarg Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 3 08-09-2013 10:16 AM
Nature The Peeper Rupert Photo Critique 2 09-21-2010 08:39 AM
Nature You, as a peeper. christophleipzig Photo Critique 5 09-06-2010 05:51 PM
Best Body or Best Lens? Pentaxie Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 38 04-21-2010 01:32 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:08 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top