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06-23-2017, 08:15 AM   #1
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looking for help: whale photography baja california.

considering appropriate gear for a whale watching vacation

I am intrigued about the possibility of going out in a small boat - 20 footer or so and attempting to capture photos of whales, specifically Grey whales off the western coast of Baja California and other whales in the Gulf of California

years ago, I got lucky and got some nice photos of humpbacks bubble feeding and breeching near Auk Bay near Juneau, especially when I cropped the photos
all I had a cannon power shot A1100 IS point and shoot

now I have a K 3 and K 5 II, a Nikon Coolpix P610 and the Cannon and the following choices for lenses:

Tamron 4-5.6 70 -300 macro zoom ld [1:2] af 62 f
_________________________
Vivitar Series 1 3.5 200 mm prime af in lens 67 f (Cosina)

Vivitar Series 1 2.8-3.8 1:28 - 105 mm macro zoom mf 67 f (Cosina)

Vivitar Series 1 2.8-4.0 70 - 210 mm macro zoom [1:25] mf 62 f (ver. 3, Kosine)
_____________

HD Pentax DA 3.5-5.6 16 - 85 mm wr zoom 72 f

smc Pentax dal 3.5-5.6 18-55mm zoom wr 52 f

smc Pentax da 3.5-5.6 18-55 mm al zoom 52 f

SMC Pentax-DA 40mm F2.8 XS

smc Pentax-DA 1.8 50 mm prime 52 f

smc Pentax-D FA 2.8 100 mm macro prime 49 f

smc Pentax dal 4-5.6 50-200mm wr ed zoom 49 f

HD Pentax-D FA 4.5 - 5.6 150-450mm ED DC AW 86 f
___________________________
HD Pentax -DA af rear converter 1.4 AW


any one out there with actual experience or with thoughts and comments

thanks


Last edited by aslyfox; 08-11-2017 at 03:54 PM. Reason: suddenly realized after 3 pages I left out " for " in title
06-23-2017, 08:46 AM   #2
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Whale watching is a telephoto job for sure. It's also good to have a walk-around zoom for photos of the boat, people, and coastline landscapes during the boat ride to/from the locations of the whales and for street photography. I'd also bring the 100 mm macro if you plan to visit the beach and go looking in tide pools.
06-23-2017, 10:51 AM   #3
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Your 16-85 and 150-450 look like the perfect combination. Both WR, a great range, the 85-150 range shouldn't be that missed. but you could pop in the 100mm Macro. If it's the WR one, that would be perfect. If it'snot the WR, sell it and buy the WR version. My guess is that you will get wet during the adventure, and with the WR lens, you can just laugh it off and keep shooting. Pack a dry towel in your bag to wipe off the lens barrels before zooming, or the mounts before changing lenses. \\

The 50-200 WR has weak IQ compared to your other lenses. I'd be selling that as well as your 18-55's and probably the Tamron too. If you want a smaller walk around tele, get the 55-300 WR.
06-23-2017, 10:57 AM   #4
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I went a couple years ago and had a Sigma 150-500 on my k3 and the 18-55 I think it was on my k50. It was a killer whale tour and they were breaching all over but you never knew where or when to look. I was able to get a couple good shots of them breaching and most of my shots were 300mm and lower.

The boats are supposed to stay a certain distance from the whales but sometimes they would just come up maybe 15 feet from the boat so it was nice to have that wider lens also.

The roll of the boat also made it a little difficult to keep the whales in frame, I had a few shots of just water or sky because of the rolls. We went out for 5 hours and after the first hour I was much better at staying on target.

The other thing I also did was try to find a spot on the boat that I could lean on a bulkhead to get a little more support. Most of the people on the boat I was on would walk all around when someone would see a whale on the other side but I stayed in one place. We saw so many whales I wasn't real worried about missing a few just coming up for air I wanted the breach shots.

Looking at your lens list I would suggest taking the 150-450 and the da50 1.8

06-23-2017, 12:14 PM   #5
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Many years ago, I was sailing a 30 foot monohull from San Pedro to Catalina. It was Grey whale migration season and we found ourselves sailing through a school of them (and, later, pilot whales). Needless to say, the sailboat was relatively quiet so we didn't spook the whales and some of them were surfacing within 25 feet or so of our boat. The 16-85mm would have been perfect if it had existed back then. If I were you, I'd make sure that it was on one of the Pentax bodies!
06-23-2017, 12:50 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
I went a couple years ago and had a Sigma 150-500 on my k3 and the 18-55 I think it was on my k50. It was a killer whale tour and they were breaching all over but you never knew where or when to look. I was able to get a couple good shots of them breaching and most of my shots were 300mm and lower.

The boats are supposed to stay a certain distance from the whales but sometimes they would just come up maybe 15 feet from the boat so it was nice to have that wider lens also.

The roll of the boat also made it a little difficult to keep the whales in frame, I had a few shots of just water or sky because of the rolls. We went out for 5 hours and after the first hour I was much better at staying on target.

The other thing I also did was try to find a spot on the boat that I could lean on a bulkhead to get a little more support. Most of the people on the boat I was on would walk all around when someone would see a whale on the other side but I stayed in one place. We saw so many whales I wasn't real worried about missing a few just coming up for air I wanted the breach shots.

Looking at your lens list I would suggest taking the 150-450 and the da50 1.8
truth be told, I am a little leery of the weight and size of the big guy - I can hand hold it and do pretty good but that isn't in a small boat in either the Gulf of California or on a lagoon on the western coast of Baja California

we are looking at a small group tour - 8 maximum: day one arriving and staying at Loreto, Baja California Sur, two days in the Sea of Cortez [ Gulf of California ], travel day across the peninsula , 3 days on the beach at San Ignacio Lagoon and then return to Loreto
so I guess the lagoon is "protected waters" but no idea how rough it might get

we are told we would be on a 22 foot fishing boat piloted by a local fisherman while at the lagoon and a private excursion boat in the Sea of Cortez
06-23-2017, 12:51 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
The roll of the boat also made it a little difficult to keep the whales in frame, I had a few shots of just water or sky because of the rolls. We went out for 5 hours and after the first hour I was much better at staying on target.

The other thing I also did was try to find a spot on the boat that I could lean on a bulkhead to get a little more support. Most of the people on the boat I was on would walk all around when someone would see a whale on the other side but I stayed in one place. We saw so many whales I wasn't real worried about missing a few just coming up for air I wanted the breach shots.

Looking at your lens list I would suggest taking the 150-450...
I have been on 6 whale watching excursions over the last 5 years (Juneau) (Washington) (Monterrey CA). I have used the K5iis 2x, K3 2x and the K1 for 2 trips. I have a Sigma 100-300 f4 and Sigma 500 f4.5 in my bag and I have always ended up using the 100-300 (even with the K1) . The FoV of a 500mm lens is jut too narrow for the random actions of a whale and the rapid panning of the photog trying to find the whale. I would recommend the 150-450 on your K3 but stay around 150-200mm. Use high burst, (my recommended settings to start: TAv, 1/1500 and f8) AND A MONOPOD! Your arms will get really shakey after 4 hours hand holding the 150-450 AND combating the roll of the boat.

QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
The boats are supposed to stay a certain distance from the whales but sometimes they would just come up maybe 15 feet from the boat so it was nice to have that wider lens also...
I do NOT recommend changing lenses at any time while on the boat; your sensor will get nasty sticky salt water spots guaranteed. If you must use a wider lens for atmosphere or really close whale shots, have it on a second body (K5), but that's a lot of weight to carry around and you will knock one body on something at least once if you aren't holding it in your hands. It also depend on the capacity of the boat. If it's near 100% you are going to have a tough time moving about.

I generally pick the upper deck rear starboard (left) corner which gives me about 180 deg view. Also pay attention to the sun. I generally won't shoot into back light subjects; they lose all detail.

As you know, whales are large and the depth of field of f8 is needed. They also move surprisingly quick, and the photo below really could have used a faster shutter speed. It was that close to being a keeper.


Last edited by nomadkng; 06-27-2017 at 07:27 AM.
06-23-2017, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #8
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I have seen whales in the wild twice

first off the harbor at San Diego while I was on a small singe mast sail boat. just 3 of us and a skipper. the boat rolled away as the California Grey Whale did a full breach between us and the shore. I stumbled backwards and had no chance to photograph it as I was concentrated on staying in the sail boat

then in 2011 off Auk Bay near Juneau Alaska, we went on a small boat and saw humpbacks bubble feeding and then we went and found a mother and calf breeching.

I grabbed a spot on the uncovered back section of the single deck boat and it was an ideal place to see all of the action and try to capture it on a memory card

here is an extreme crop from my Cannon Sure ShotA1100 IS

lessons learned, take " photos " with the mark 1 eyeballs and store in brain, then try to capture the image on a memory card any way possible.
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Canon PowerShot A1100 IS  Photo 
06-23-2017, 01:15 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
considering appropriate gear for a whale watching vacation
I am intrigued about the possibility of going out in a small boat - 20 footer or so and attempting to capture photos of whales, specifically Grey whales off the western coast of Baja California and other whales in the Gulf of California
years ago, I got lucky and got some nice photos of humpbacks bubble feeding and breeching near Auk Bay near Juneau, especially when I cropped the photos
all I had a cannon power shot A1100 IS point and shoot
[...] any one out there with actual experience or with thoughts and comments [...]

I have a bit of experience with whale watching, having worked as a "whale watch naturalist" on 2,000+ whale watch trips over 31 years (before retiring 7 years ago). [These trips, however, were on a fleet of 85- and 110-foot whale watch vessels, and I actually have little experience on boats as small as 20 feet.] I can't speak specifically about gray whales, since my whale watching has been in Massachusetts waters 100% of the time, and gray whales exist only in the North Pacific -- our "bread and butter" whales over here are humpbacks, finbacks, minkes, and rights (and Atlantic white-sided dolphins for our "small critters"), with others species only occasionally.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
now I have a K 3 and K 5 II, a Nikon Coolpix P610 and the Cannon and the following choices for lenses:
Tamron 4-5.6 70 -300 macro zoom ld [1:2] af 62 f

I think that the above would be your best for most of your shooting. [I know nothing personally about this particular Tamron lens -- this opinion is based strictly on the FL and f/ numbers.]

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
smc Pentax dal 4-5.6 50-200mm wr ed zoom 49 f

The above would be a good lens for boat and people pics, as well as for any "close encounters" with cooperative whales you might experience.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
HD Pentax-D FA 4.5 - 5.6 150-450mm ED DC AW 86 f

I think the above lens is too long for what you are trying to do, especially on a very small boat, and is also a bit "precious" to risk taking on such a small boat, too, methinks.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
HD Pentax -DA af rear converter 1.4 AW

No need for a TC with the lens choices you have. The K-3 will give you a lot of ability to some serious cropping without much loss of IQ.

Good luck on your trip.
06-23-2017, 01:23 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwcetus Quote
I have a bit of experience with whale watching, having worked as a "whale watch naturalist" on 2,000+ whale watch trips over 31 years (before retiring 7 years ago). [These trips, however, were on a fleet of 85- and 110-foot whale watch vessels, and I actually have little experience on boats as small as 20 feet.] I can't speak specifically about gray whales, since my whale watching has been in Massachusetts waters 100% of the time, and gray whales exist only in the North Pacific -- our "bread and butter" whales over here are humpbacks, finbacks, minkes, and rights (and Atlantic white-sided dolphins for our "small critters"), with others species only occasionally.


a bit "precious" to risk taking on such a small boat, too, methinks.




Good luck on your trip.

that is a serious thought

I am a firm believer in Murphy's law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong

and Finnegan's corollary to it: Murphy was an optimist

all equipment is insured but would have to check coverage in Mexico and deductible
06-24-2017, 05:26 AM - 1 Like   #11
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My experience from several whale watches:
1) DO NOT PLAN TO CHANGE PRIME LENSES, it's awkward, dangerous for the equipment, and chances are the picture op will be gone when you get the job done;
2) ZOOM LENS IS A MUST! Whales may emerge near or far, a wide ranging zoom is best.
3) Use a high shutter speed, preferably 1/1000 or higher. The whale, the sea, the boat and possibly you in the boat (depending on its size*) may all be moving; I would set a Pentax on AVTV, 1/2000, f8 or f11, and let the ISO go where it needs to.
OF THE LENSES YOU'VE LISTED:
1) the 150~450 is A) too long at the short end; B) unnecessarily long at the tele end (murder to frame in a pitching boat at 450mm); 3) way too heavy for prolonged hand holding in that venue;
2) the Tamron 70-300 has a good focal length, range, weight, and convenience combination. Stopped down to f8~11 the IQ will be fine, and you will rarely use it at 300mm; I would recommend it as the best choice. BUT despite my warning about changing lenses, take along a keep handy the 16~85mm in case a whale comes up right next to the boat, or some curious dolphins come racing into the bow waves.


The most useful lens I have used whale watching was a Sigma 18-250mm. Anything I could not capture at 250mm was too far away to photograph no matter what lens was used, and we did have some dolphins that raced up close, sometimes shooting up almost completely out of the water. Stopped down to f8 the IQ is totally sufficient (there isn't much detail to pixel-peep on the sleek body of a whale).

*We have whale-watched both from a big double-deck tour boat and from little 12 passenger zodiacs. Changing lenses on the double decker was nothing. Changing lenses on the Zodiac was pretty much OOTQ. BTW: One of the Zodiacs we were in was fitted with two parallel ridges that you straddled and sat on like a saddle, with a backrest for each passenger which made it more comfortable when moving fast, but more important it kept you from being thrown back or pitched forward onto the next tourist as the boat powered up and down the waves. The photo problems were different: longer tele reach for the big tour boat, a zoom that came closer to normal FL sometimes useful from the Zodiac.
06-24-2017, 09:15 AM   #12
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I want to thank all those who have offered advice so far, I hope it keeps coming.

in my initial post, I listed all possible cameras and lenses that I could take on the trip

I am strongly considering choosing among the following ones for use on the boats:

Tamron 4-5.6 70 -300 macro zoom ld [1:2] af

HD Pentax DA 3.5-5.6 16 - 85 mm wr zoom

smc Pentax dal 3.5-5.6 18-55mm zoom wr

smc Pentax dal 4-5.6 50-200mm wr ed zoom

__________________________________

1 I have to decide if I want to risk the 16 - 85 mm or go with the 18 - 55 instead

2 would the older non WR tameron 70 - 300 be better than the 50 - 200

Tamron 70-300mm F4-5.6 AF LD Macro Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database [ mine is silver ]

SMC Pentax-DA L 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR Reviews - DA L Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

3 how necessary WR is when on the water exposed to spray and wind??

4 I do have a monopod which I could take but would that help??

_________________________________________________________________________

my current plans would be to hand hold [ rely on the SR and pray ] and mount one lens to the K 3 and another to the K 5 II.

I would have the Cannon Power Shot A1100 IS [ image stabilizer ] in a vest pocket as well

https://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_a1100is/overview

____________________________________

[ as always my wife would be using one of our Nikon Coolpix P610 bridge camera and planning on showing me up once again ]

Last edited by aslyfox; 06-24-2017 at 09:23 AM.
06-24-2017, 10:16 AM   #13
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I did a whale watching trip in a 30 ft. boat in Alaska back in 2012. At the time I brought my K-5 with DA 17-70 and DA*200 and DFA 100 Macro WR. My thought was the DA* 200 just was not long enough.
Based on what you have I would bring the HD DA 16-85 and the 150-450, and a good monopod or tripod. The DFA 100 Macro could come in handy if you get close to the whales and need a good sharp lens. I do not recall if you have the teleconverter but I would bring that as well.
With my current lens selection, if I were doing a whale watching trip again I would bring the following: DA 17-70 or the DA 16-85 as soon as I can replace the 17-70 with the 16-85, DA 21 and 40 Limiteds (for when I are not on the boat), DFA 100 Macro WR, and HD DA 55-300 PLM and the 1.4x TC.
Have a great trip and hope you see lots of whales. We saw humpbacks mostly distant when we were in Alaska.
06-24-2017, 02:38 PM   #14
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"4 I do have a monopod which I could take but would that help??"

"and a good monopod or tripod"


Well, I would ~discourage~ the use of a monopod or a tripod. Not only is such a piece of hardware a potentially hazardous object for the passengers (including the photographer) on a moving boat (and a boat, even when horizontally more-or-less stopped, is still almost always moving vertically), but its use (presumably intended to stabilize the cam and lens) can actually end up being ~counterproductive~.

Using a monopod or tripod on land for stability does make a lot of sense, because "the terra is always rather firma" (well, almost all the time). But on a boat, the platform is ~not~ "firma", and anything rigidly mounted on it (or rigidly standing on it) would have the boat's motion transferred indirectly (through the monopod or the tripod) to the cam and lens.

Instead, I'd recommend turning the photographer's body into a somewhat flexible (sort of a "springy") bipod, tripod, or tetrapod, being supported below the waist by two, three, or even four points of contact (with two being the feet, spread apart a moderate distance, and then, ideally, with the "bum", the knees, or the thighs resting against a rail, a bench, or the cabin, etc., providing the third point or the third-and-fourth points). Then, the body should not be standing rigidly erect, but should be flexed a bit (at the knees and waist), so that the body can act as a "shock absorber", with just enough flexibility to ~actively~ compensate for the motion of the platform (i.e., the boat).

Maybe that sounds kind of weird (and maybe I didn't describe it very well), but, basically, you'd want your body to treat the cam and lens the way a newer Pentax DSLR body, for SR stabilization, treats the "floating" sensor within it. Well, sorta...


Last edited by fwcetus; 06-24-2017 at 02:57 PM.
06-24-2017, 03:01 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
My experience from several whale watches:
QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
I have been on 6 whale watching excursions over the last 5 years

I do think that both WPRESTO's and nomadkng's experienced insights are particularly well stated and useful...

Last edited by fwcetus; 06-24-2017 at 03:08 PM.
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