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09-16-2017, 12:58 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by danielchtong Quote
I am saying that manual focus with wide angle lenses is super easy given its huge depth of field. That has nothing to do with subjective preference.
And as a result of that, buying MF fisheye /UWA lens make sense money wise. I am suggesting that AF function is redundant in majority of the cases
No, you have shared your workflow. If it works for you, great. I use manual Uwa as well, but I wouldn't tell someone that this is the best way to anyone as everyone has their own preferences.

09-16-2017, 01:06 PM   #47
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Back at Ryerson Photo Arts we were definitely taught how to set manual focus lenses to cover the maximum range using the DoF scale instead of focusing through the viewfinder. It's a time tested technique. I'm not sure what the issue could be. For 30 years I used it with great success. That someone else doesn't makes absolutely not one iota of difference to me. 30 years is 30 years. I even used it stepping off the distance to my subject and shooting a 50 indoors. Much easier than manual focussing in dim light. Some of my favourite images use this method. If you aren't using it you're probably missing some shots you could have nailed. Not only that still use it, by finding off subject objects in the frame as focus points because I know from the DoF scale where I want the 1/3-2/3 focal point to be.

The normal AFalgoritm will put 1/3 of the DoF in front to the focus point and 2/3s behind. Using the hyper focal point gives you the advantage of having the DoF cover where you want it, regardless of subject position. You can put your subject at the very front, or the very back of the DoF. It has advantages that can't be matched by AF in every circumstance.

IMHO you can't possibly know what you are doing in AF, if you don't understand using the DoF scale in MF. You're just guessing and hoping. One of the reasons I used MF film cameras in first year HS photography was so students would understand how the camera works. They don't get that if they start using AF without understanding how to manipulate the DOF using the hyperlocal distances and DoF scales.

But then I also had parents complain I was asking their amateur sons and daughters to do professional work. My response was, "if most of them can do it, why is that a bad thing."

But I'll also note, some of them got it and some didn't. I could tell. I'd do a demonstration, those who didn't get it just copied what I did. The ones who did came up with something new and creative. I guess if you're one of the ones who didn't get it, it seemed pretty un-essential. "I just take my camera, point it where I want and click the shutter." would be an expected response in such cases.

Last edited by normhead; 09-16-2017 at 01:28 PM.
09-16-2017, 01:40 PM   #48
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There's nothing wrong with the technique. However there's nothing wrong with using and wanting af either, it's personal preference.

I really don't like the generalizations like one you've stated - anyone who just wants to use af just didn't get the technique. It's not rocket science, you don't really need any sort of degree in photography, in fact I know quite a few working pros with high paying gigs that are self taught and happily use af when they can.
09-16-2017, 02:38 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
There's nothing wrong with the technique. However there's nothing wrong with using and wanting af either, it's personal preference.

I really don't like the generalizations like one you've stated - anyone who just wants to use af just didn't get the technique. It's not rocket science, you don't really need any sort of degree in photography, in fact I know quite a few working pros with high paying gigs that are self taught and happily use af when they can.
There are very special circumstance where AF behind the viewfinder has no chance at all.
This was a once in a lifetime shots (in series) with me setting a fisheye to shoot a bird on my left hand (at 3 feet distance away). I had less than a few seconds to respond. I set the distance on the dial and fire non stop until the bird flew away in less than 5 seconds


repost: 16mm birdie shot in series - Steve's Digicams Forums

I am sure I posted in this forum as well. Somehow I could not find it.

09-16-2017, 02:42 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by danielchtong Quote
There are very special circumstance where AF behind the viewfinder has no chance at all.
This was a once in a lifetime shots (in series) with me setting a fisheye to shoot a bird on my left hand (at 3 feet distance away). I had less than a few seconds to respond. I set the distance on the dial and fire non stop until the bird flew away in less than 5 seconds


repost: 16mm birdie shot in series - Steve's Digicams Forums

I am sure I posted in this forum as well. Somehow I could not find it.
Why wouldn't af work in this situation?
09-16-2017, 02:49 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Why wouldn't af work in this situation?
Because you have to get a focus point on the bird and lock focus. With Hyperlocal you set the distance on the lens and shoot without regard to where the focus points are. I use the technique with AF, I focus on the hunmming bird feeder on the plane where I expect the bird to be. Set the camera to MF and wait until the bird shows up in the spot I expect and then shoot a burst. Even if the bird is outside the area defined by AF points, I'll get him in focus. No checking focus while the bird moves off, no messing around trying to get a focus point on the bird.

It's really tough to track a humming bird in your viewfinder, same with many other small birds, but you can get images by understanding MF and hyperlocal distances.

This usually isn't my first choice of obtaining images, but if locking focus and shooting aburt isn't working because a bird is too flighty, this might work. It should be in your arsenal.

Last edited by normhead; 09-16-2017 at 02:55 PM.
09-16-2017, 02:55 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because you have to get a focus point on the bird and lock focus. With Hyperlocal you set the distance on the lens and shoot without regard to where the focus points are. I use the technique with AF, I focus on the hunmming bird feeder on the plane where I expect the bird to be. Set the camera to MF and wait until the bird shows up in the spot I expect and then shoot a burst. Even if the bird is outside the area defined by AF points, I'll get him in focus. No checking focus while the bird moves off, no messing around trying to get a focus point on the bird.

It's really tough to track a humming bird in your viewfinder, same with many other small birds, but you can get images by understanding MF and hyperlocal distances.
Wouldn't dof be large enough to not worry about it being out of focus once it locks on it once, or even pre focusing on the hand. Again I use my manual Uwa just fine without af, but I don't see why af wouldn't work in this particular situation.
09-16-2017, 02:58 PM   #53
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I won't blame the newer generation of photographers not trusting MF technique as the distance gauge on newer AF lenses just sucks big time.

09-16-2017, 03:43 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by danielchtong Quote
I won't blame the newer generation of photographers not trusting MF technique as the distance gauge on newer AF lenses just sucks big time.
It's not about trust, it's about choice and preference. More choice is good, no?
09-16-2017, 06:29 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Wouldn't dof be large enough to not worry about it being out of focus once it locks on it once,
what can happen if your AF is on, the hummer darts out of the centre area, your camera tries to pick up the background, while it's futzing about, you get no shot at all. AF depends on you achieving focus lock, That's hard to do if your your subject is moving. Also even at ƒ8 or 11 if you are close enough photograph a hummer, you won't have much D0F.
09-16-2017, 06:42 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
what can happen if your AF is on, the hummer darts out of the centre area, your camera tries to pick up the background, while it's futzing about, you get no shot at all. AF depends on you achieving focus lock, That's hard to do if your your subject is moving. Also even at 8 or 11 if you are close enough photograph a hummer, you won't have much D0F.
Again, focus on the hand, dof would be deep enough for get the bird, look at his shot - his entire wrist and palm are in focus.
09-16-2017, 07:01 PM   #57
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Ya, well, are we discussing technique or a particular image?
09-16-2017, 07:08 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, well, are we discussing technique or a particular image?
I was questioning the statement that "this particular image was impossible to do with af".

---------- Post added 09-16-17 at 07:11 PM ----------

I used the hyper focal stuff a ton when I bought a samyang 12 f2 for my oly few years back, I basically had it at f5.6 (f11 equivalent for ff), and didn't bother focusing at all, just shot off the hip.
09-17-2017, 12:43 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by danielchtong Quote
There are very special circumstance where AF behind the viewfinder has no chance at all.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because you have to get a focus point on the bird and lock focus.
With AF available (in body and lens) and set AF.S to release-priority, picture will be taken even without AF confirmation.

Last edited by angerdan; 09-17-2017 at 05:54 AM.
09-17-2017, 04:58 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, well, are we discussing technique or a particular image?
He tries to mix that up with personal preference/taste.

QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I used the hyper focal stuff a ton when I bought a samyang 12 f2 for my oly few years back, I basically had it at f5.6 (f11 equivalent for ff), and didn't bother focusing at all, just shot off the hip.
With MF , one can fire at will.

Last edited by danielchtong; 09-17-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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