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08-25-2008, 09:11 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I have the 40 Ltd and have used it almost exclusively in the studio. It is extremely sharp, has great contrast and renders colors wonderfully. I love the fact that it is sharp from wide open till f16 with no problem. I don't even consider it's size. For me it is just a 40 (60) mm lens that sits very nicely for full fashion images as well as portraits. I recently purchased the 43 Ltd and have yet to use it professionally. As I have the 31 Ltd, I doubt if I will purchase the 35 macro unless really needed for a Beauty gig.

Ben
I'm actually very interested in seeing how you like the FA43 for this usage!

08-25-2008, 09:24 AM   #47
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Yes, the lighting is not very good, it's putting that central area in a darkened portion, so it's hard to tell. I forgot to mention that the first two copies of this lens that I had, performed poorly when I MF'd at infinity (seems like it would have taken AF out of the equation, as infinity is infinity) but performed slightly better when AF'd. And perhaps that was the issue with my first 2.

But it's hard for me to tell because the images are dark where the details lay. Maybe again when the lighting improves or in the opposite direction?


QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Well, I poked my head out the door to test infinity focus. It's a grey, grey day, which at least has the advantage that the light is not changing. These were hand-held in Av mode at f/8 1/125s ISO200 EV -1 on the K100D Super.

I took one shot using auto-focus, a second manually focusing and shooting when the focus indicator lit and the third on manual focus set right to infinity.

I lined up all three images near enough, did a basic levels compensation and cropped to 1:1 pixels. No other processing. Despite this there is some visible exposure difference I cannot account for.

DA35 AF at infinity




DA35 MF so focus indicator lights




DA35 MF at infinity



The three images are progressively lighter and progressively less sharp. There is not much difference between the first two, but it is still noticeable that the AF shot is the best.

The fact that manually focusing to infinity is softer indicates that either a) the lens focuses past infinity, or b) the target was not sufficiently distant.

I am interested in what others think of these images. To me they seem sufficiently sharp given the circumstances. Just to see what would happen, I put the first one through my normal post-processing, which includes sharpening, contrast and curve adjustments.

DA35 AF processed



Pumping the contrast lost some of the fine detail in the grillwork. And of course the colours are pretty muted given the rubbish light. But otherwise it is not dismal.
08-25-2008, 11:35 AM   #48
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I like this...

QuoteQuote:
...
Measurements, which might seem more trustworthy on the face of things, can
make us overlook the obvious benefits of careful observation.
...
...
In any event, I have to say that the prejudices and peccadilloes of various
interpreters do afford a high amusement value sometimes. Just after our review
came out, another review was published on a different site that came to a
different conclusion than we did. That one was chock-full of scientific-looking
charts and graphs, so some readers used it as a handy means of dismissing
everything Carl and I had said. Which is certainly their prerogative. The thing that
made me smile, however, was that the "scientific" review started out with the
following statement in the very first sentence: "...these lenses are assembled by
hand thus resulting in a limited production volume." The only problem with that is
that the Pentax "Limited" lenses, despite the name, have never been, and are
not now, limited production items—Pentax uses the word "limited" to signify
"deluxe." And, all camera lenses are assembled by hand—how else would they
be assembled, by little teensy robots, like a miniature automobile assembly line?!
But I guess it’s still a better review to some people, despite having this obvious
factual howler at the outset, I suspect because it has those all-important charts
'n' graphs.

Someday, I swear, I'm going to try an experiment. I'm going to add totally fake
charts and graphs to one of my reviews just to make diehard "objectivists" feel
more comfortable with my conclusions. You know, I'll have a chart, for example,
showing SPFF—subjective purple fringing factor—graphically, and the chart will
assign the lens under test a rating of BM7.13, where "BM," unbeknownst to
readers, will secretly stand for "bothers Mike."

Your botheration factor, still and all, might differ.

The Online Photographer.




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08-25-2008, 12:01 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
Yes, the lighting is not very good, it's putting that central area in a darkened portion, so it's hard to tell. I forgot to mention that the first two copies of this lens that I had, performed poorly when I MF'd at infinity (seems like it would have taken AF out of the equation, as infinity is infinity) but performed slightly better when AF'd. And perhaps that was the issue with my first 2.

But it's hard for me to tell because the images are dark where the details lay. Maybe again when the lighting improves or in the opposite direction?
The lighting is the same in all directions. This is Ireland. And it's been raining almost all August. Thankfully there was a spot of light for the birds of prey I shot on Sunday. But I will do a better test when nature cooperates.

However this is looking more and more like I have a lens with the same issues as your first two. I wonder how to resolve this from where I live -- nowhere near a dealer? I will start a different thread on this.

08-25-2008, 12:48 PM   #50
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Words, words, words.

Let pics tell:







100% Crop:







I owned one copy of the FA31, one of the DA40 and two copys of the FA43. If someone asks me for the best bang for the buck my answere is very clear: One DA21 and one DA35. But one thing is important. You must use a K20D to get the full cup of joy from these world class lenses!

Best,
Rainer
08-25-2008, 12:55 PM   #51
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TKH, great shots, I really like the building surface texture/color.


QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The lighting is the same in all directions. This is Ireland. And it's been raining almost all August. Thankfully there was a spot of light for the birds of prey I shot on Sunday. But I will do a better test when nature cooperates.

However this is looking more and more like I have a lens with the same issues as your first two. I wonder how to resolve this from where I live -- nowhere near a dealer? I will start a different thread on this.

Robin, if it's under warranty, could you ship it back to the reseller or Pentax for a replacement?

Also, do you have something to compare it to on those infinity shots, sort of a
sanity check? I mean, none of my lenses are particularly sharp at 100% crop,
so to 'test' them I just compare them to others. This is how I found that my copy
of the 35ltd was about as sharp at infinity as the 31ltd, and a bit better than the
M 28 f/2.8.
08-25-2008, 01:41 PM   #52
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I've followed the online posting about Carl Weese and Michael Johnston's reactions to the DA 35 macro, verses Klaus' photozone.de testing write up, with great interest. Both seem well worth reading to me, even if they might be at odds.

For me, I got the DA35 pretty soon after it came out, and apart from excellent macros I was somewhat underwhelmed in comparing it to the FA31. So I put the DA 35 in the bag but left the FA 31 on for various streetscapes and portrait efforts.

Weese's review, however, made me think I hadn't spent enough time with the DA 35, so this weekend I decided to follow in his footsteps and "stress" the lens. I tend to like a lot of lowlight shots, so naturally the FA 31 might appeal more, but maybe I wasn't playing to the DA 35's strengths.

My test shots at the beach:



and a crop from the next frame:



Now I don't know how the FA 31 would have handled this scene and glare, and I also don't know if other folks will find the images as pleasing as I did. My only point is that Weese convinced me to take another look at the DA 35, and I'm glad I did.
08-25-2008, 02:23 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Robin, if it's under warranty, could you ship it back to the reseller or Pentax for a replacement?
Well, the original seller is in Canada but I think I need to send it locally. There is a 2-year Canadian warranty, but I have heard that all Pentax products are honoured by 1 year international. Does anyone know if this is true? It doesn't say so in the box.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Also, do you have something to compare it to on those infinity shots, sort of a sanity check?
That's my next step, hopefully tomorrow if the rain lets up. I'll use a tripod and the FA43 for comparison.

Odd thing is, these shots look fine to me for 100%. This is just not how I thought the lens was behaving when I was using it out in the field. Might be tired eyes.

08-25-2008, 03:21 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Well, the original seller is in Canada but I think I need to send it locally. There is a 2-year Canadian warranty, but I have heard that all Pentax products are honoured by 1 year international. Does anyone know if this is true? It doesn't say so in the box.
Rparmar,

You better check it with your local representative but from what I know here (Romania) they'll honnor only the European warranties not US or others.

Hope it helps!
Radu
08-25-2008, 04:56 PM   #55
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Why do you guys think it would matter so much which camera was used to do the tests? I understand that it would make an _absolute_ difference, but not a _relative_ difference.

If the photozone tests are consistent then regardless of what camera he uses the results should be comparable. Or do you think that the K20D improves certain lenses (DA35 for instance) more than others? If so, what is the logic behind this?
08-25-2008, 06:35 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
Why do you guys think it would matter so much which camera was used to do the tests? I understand that it would make an _absolute_ difference, but not a _relative_ difference.

If the photozone tests are consistent then regardless of what camera he uses the results should be comparable. Or do you think that the K20D improves certain lenses (DA35 for instance) more than others? If so, what is the logic behind this?
Hi,

If you're talking about sharpness then I believe if the lens "A" is sharper on the K10D will also be sharper on the K20D than the lens "B" if the both lenses still outresolve the new sensor. But if a certain lens is close to its limit on a 10 MP sensor then I am not that sure about the outcome on the higher res sensor.
My main problem with the photozone's test is that IMHO opinion they have to upgrade most of their test cameras especially since a new K20D is 850 Euro and they could sell for some hundreds the old K10D. It's not THAT big of investment. Also K20D has about 1,7 more stops of DR which shows pretty much in some pictures and put more value in a lens such as DA 35. But if I am upset what about canonites who get their reviews out of a 350D

Radu

If you want some fun look at this "latest" Sony gem: Sony 35mm f/1.4 G ( SAL-35F14G ) - Review / Test Report full frame and supersonic motor on a older Minolta design. Look at the review and the magnificent 1,5/5 stars it gets from Klaus. And best of all you can have it for "only" 1300 Euro!
08-25-2008, 07:41 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
If you're talking about sharpness then I believe if the lens "A" is sharper on the K10D will also be sharper on the K20D than the lens "B" if the both lenses still outresolve the new sensor. But if a certain lens is close to its limit on a 10 MP sensor then I am not that sure about the outcome on the higher res sensor.
My main problem with the photozone's test is that IMHO opinion they have to upgrade most of their test cameras especially since a new K20D is 850 Euro and they could sell for some hundreds the old K10D. It's not THAT big of investment. Also K20D has about 1,7 more stops of DR which shows pretty much in some pictures and put more value in a lens such as DA 35. But if I am upset what about canonites who get their reviews out of a 350D
Right. So if a lens is already performing at it's limit on the K10D, then it is possible that when tested on the K20D, that it won't get _as much better_ as other lenses. So, indeed, this could make the DA35 "more better" () than other lenses on the K20D, but not _absolutely_ better than a lens that it was worse than on a K10D.

Eg. if FA31 tests better than DA35 on K10D then it should test better than DA35 on K20D too.

So this applies to the MTF tests, but to some degree to the "subjective" parts of the review as well (ie. as long as everything is consistent things should be comparable)... BUT of course those are just the photozone guy's opinion, which you are allowed to disagree with.

Personally I sort of hope that he DOESN'T upgrade to a K20D since then all the numbers would not be comparable (and redoing the tests is probably not possible since he uses borrowed lenses). I also have a K200D, so it's kinda nice for me that the tests are done with the same sensor
08-25-2008, 07:44 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
Why do you guys think it would matter so much which camera was used to do the tests? I understand that it would make an _absolute_ difference, but not a _relative_ difference.

If the photozone tests are consistent then regardless of what camera he uses the results should be comparable. Or do you think that the K20D improves certain lenses (DA35 for instance) more than others? If so, what is the logic behind this?

It's some kind of new Pentaxian's myth - K20D improves lens resolution...
K20D has higher demands for lens resolution - and it's reality.
Lens which only good at K10D won't be better at K20D. Bad lens will be worse.
I've seen a lot of pictures from DA35 at K20D.
No any miracle...Bigger size of picture. Yeees. A bit more details...Maybe.

One more new myth - DA35 is better than FA limited. I thought that Pentaxians not fanatic...

Pentax is marginal company, of course...But I don't want to be in sect under name
Pentaxians.

Last edited by ogl; 08-25-2008 at 08:45 PM.
08-25-2008, 08:17 PM   #59
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DA 35mm, F2.8, iso 200, K20D.

08-25-2008, 08:28 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's some kind of new Pentaxian's myth - K20D improves lens resolution...
K20D has higher demands for lens resolution - and it's reality.
Lens which only good at K10D won't be better at K20D. Bad lens will be worse.
I've seen a lot of pictures from DA35 at K20D.
No any miracle...Bigger size of picture. Yeees. A bit more details...Maybe.

One more new myth - DA35 is better than FA limited. I thought that Pentaxians not fanatic...

Pentax is marginal company, of course...But I don't want to be in sect under name
Pentaxians.

The advantage of the K20D will be seen in the exact criteria Mike & Carl
referenced in their review - color, tonality, contrast, noise. These things added
to the excellent resolution of DA 35 and it's build quality makes it a worthy
member of the limited clan.

Here's how I'd rate them at this point:

FA 77, FA 31, DA 35, FA 43/70 tie, DA 40, DA 21

But even the DA 21 is pretty excellent.

This is based on shooting with all of these on my K20D, and owning 4 of them,
allowing extended shooting experience. I've also shot the 77, 31, 40 and 35 on
the K100D Super.

Your mileage obviously differs ogl, and that's fine, but I have to discount your
opinion a bit based on my own personal experience. I'm pretty convinced that if
you spent 3 weeks shooting the DA 35ltd on a K20D you'd end your crusade.


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