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08-25-2008, 08:40 PM   #61
ogl
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
Right. So if a lens is already performing at it's limit on the K10D, then it is possible that when tested on the K20D, that it won't get _as much better_ as other lenses. So, indeed, this could make the DA35 "more better" () than other lenses on the K20D, but not _absolutely_ better than a lens that it was worse than on a K10D.

Eg. if FA31 tests better than DA35 on K10D then it should test better than DA35 on K20D too.
You are right!!!

As for me, the pictures from K200D is better than from K20D.
It's easy to understand - need to see full size images...


Last edited by ogl; 08-25-2008 at 08:53 PM.
08-25-2008, 09:17 PM   #62
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Numbers and Images: an user test.

Hello everyone,

I'm new in the PentaxForums.

Following the hot discussions about the reviews of the DA 35 mm Macro,
I did a small website with a user test - as a poll -
to investigate what is the meaning of the MTF numbers out of the test charts.

It's six shots of the same scene with six different apertures.
The goal is to discover wich photo is equivalent to which aperture.

Below, one example:



There are five more comparisons like this;

To do the full test follow this link.

Possibly, you will be surprised as I am

Enjoy

Salviano Jr
Rio de Janeiro
08-25-2008, 09:27 PM   #63
TKH
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
If so, what is the logic behind this?
If we would test high end class Formular 1 tyres, what would be the better way to see which tyre has best performance? A standard Fiat Family car, or a brandnew Ferrari?

No one will say that two tyres are the same quality because you feel no difference in high speed on the family car, or?

Best,
Rainer
08-25-2008, 09:48 PM   #64
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Are anybody there who dislike DA35?

I prefer FA lenses and IMO this lenses have more soul and art in picture.
Something that I can't express by words...
I feel DA lenses lost something that hard to explain. DA35 has nothing interesting. Nothing outstanding. The simply good product of digital era.
It's not enough for me. I don't care DA35's resolution, but I can't see any "spices" in it.
"Good, but unflavoured food".

For example, Sony 35/1.4G has not stellar resolution, but it has very special bokeh in some situation and unusual picture sometimes...
FA*24/2 has not very good corners, but it has SOUL and HEART in picture. FA43 has very interesting picture wide-open.
E.t.c.

Anobody understand me????


Last edited by ogl; 08-25-2008 at 10:01 PM.
08-25-2008, 10:41 PM   #65
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Maybe...

Some of this argument has been created by language differences. I've really been arguing with you about the difference between opinion and fact, as it seemed you were putting your opinion of the lens out there as fact. However, what you've written below makes more sense to me. Everyone sees something particular they like in images a lens produces. Many of us like what we see in the DA 35, or other DAs for that matter. Many like what they get from the FAs better.

So, yeah, I understand you better now.

Todd


QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote

I prefer FA lenses and IMO this lenses have more soul and art in picture.
Something that I can't express by words...

Anobody understand me????
08-25-2008, 11:21 PM   #66
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The more I see from lens tests the more I believe that they are *very* limited in their measurements and therefore the conclusions drawn from those said measurements. Sure they show things like vignetting, and distortion, which are indisputable, and resolution on the test charts but that doesn't always marry up with the *perceived* sharpness that the lens shows and *how* it renders the image.

Anyone can say what they like, and they can tout the resolution figures until the cows come home, but from the results I have seen from the DA*35, it has *exceptional* image quality and is up their with the best of Pentax's Limiteds *regardless* of how it measures on the test bench.

I do not have the DA*35, but I an sorely tempted to get one simply because many a time I have a prime on and want to go close and they won't let you go any closer than *about* 10x their focal length. If you look at the specs of various lenses you will see things like the DA40 lens with a closest focus of 40cm, and the FA50 lens 45cm and the FA77 is 70cm etc and this doesn't really allow for any close focus shots. The DA*35 macro will allow 1:1 magnification and also can be used as a normal FOV lens with *exemplary* image quality right across the range.
08-25-2008, 11:31 PM   #67
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QuoteQuote:
Maybe...
Some of this argument has been created by language differences. I've really been arguing with you about the difference between opinion and fact, as it seemed you were putting your opinion of the lens out there as fact. However, what you've written below makes more sense to me. Everyone sees something particular they like in images a lens produces. Many of us like what we see in the DA 35, or other DAs for that matter. Many like what they get from the FAs better.

So, yeah, I understand you better now.

Todd


Originally Posted by ogl View Post


I prefer FA lenses and IMO this lenses have more soul and art in picture.
Something that I can't express by words...

Anobody understand me????

But that in effect is like saying you prefer the DA lenses over FA lenses purely on the basis of you owning only DA lenses.

I own FA lenses as well but until I have use of the DA 35 I cannot state that through my experience its good or bad and compare it to my FA lenses

I can state that other DA lenses I have are exceptional, but each lens has its own character.

Judging a lens on photos alone really does not do justice to the lens for there are many factors involved when we are viewing a digital image on a digital screen.

OGL you keep on commenting on the DA35 and pointing out that you feel its inferior to FA lenses of the same focal range yet you have no hard evidence of your own to support your claims, so to me your statements my friend are just personal opinions and nothing more... just like a Canon user telling me that Pentax is not as good yet they have never taken one shot with one

What makes me decide on a lenses value and quality are reviews of hands on experience especially when they come from people with a number of lenses and then one still should look at and read as much as they can before LBA takes a stranglehold

Neil
08-26-2008, 01:51 AM   #68
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I have no any doubts that DA35 is very good macro lens with one of the best construction.

08-26-2008, 02:24 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Hoya does not own Tokina.
Yes it does.
Tokina is subsidiary of Hoya filter division:

HOYA Filter Division Tokina Co., Ltd.
Nozuta-Machi, Machida-shi 120-4
195 0063 Tokyo
Japan
08-26-2008, 03:42 AM   #70
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Tokina is just one of authorised dealer of HOYA and buyer of HOYA's glass.
And it's all.
08-26-2008, 06:59 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You are right!!!

As for me, the pictures from K200D is better than from K20D.
It's easy to understand - need to see full size images...
Well I know you had a DA 35 Macro Limited but I wasn't aware that you owned or at least thorougly tested a K20D. Seeing the general tone of your posts I guessed you'd have started a "K20D has no soul thread" to justify your personal dislike.

Radu
08-26-2008, 07:14 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Tokina is just one of authorised dealer of HOYA and buyer of HOYA's glass.
And it's all.
yes, absolutely... everybody can find that in a second (check the address
that WILDMAN quoted ):

HOYA FILTERS - The Difference is Clear

HOYA FILTER International Distributors

Japan
Tokina Co.,Ltd.
120-4 Nozuta-Machi, Machida-Shi, Tokyo 195-0063 Tel: 81-42-734-8255 Fax: 81-42-735-1463 sales@tokina.co.jp
08-26-2008, 06:18 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Are anybody there who dislike DA35?

I prefer FA lenses and IMO this lenses have more soul and art in picture.
Something that I can't express by words...
I feel DA lenses lost something that hard to explain. DA35 has nothing interesting. Nothing outstanding. The simply good product of digital era.
It's not enough for me. I don't care DA35's resolution, but I can't see any "spices" in it.
"Good, but unflavoured food".

For example, Sony 35/1.4G has not stellar resolution, but it has very special bokeh in some situation and unusual picture sometimes...
FA*24/2 has not very good corners, but it has SOUL and HEART in picture. FA43 has very interesting picture wide-open.
E.t.c.

Anobody understand me????

I understand, and I guess we're fundamentally in agreement - I prefer the
FA's 31ltd & 77ltd over the DA 35ltd - overall - but I certainly consider the DA 35
a "limited".

BTW, congrats on tha FA* 24/2 - I've seen some incredible stuff from that lens -
it's another one that has so-so MTF numbers across the frame, but can produce
mind-blowing images - you should post some, ogl.


.
08-27-2008, 12:06 AM   #74
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Hello everyone:

I just published the results of the Resolution Test.
In brief, the image below.

To see more detailed info, some additional words and my final conclusion, please go to this page:

Link

A big THANX to the all participants!



P.S. It's available for download, a huge zip file with all original seven untouched DNG files.

Kind regards

Salviano Junior
Rio de Janeiro
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