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11-10-2017, 02:09 PM   #1
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contemplating a purchase of da300..

Look,
I want to try out birding.

So, first things first, i need a telelens & want to find out whether a da300 will match my expectations.

There are other options, such as 150-450, a nikon body with 200 500 (friends tell me to just get a nikon for this..) or e.g. a fuji xt2 with 100-400 lens. These options all go beyond the 2000euro mark. Hec, i'm not even sure to what extent i'll like it or how much time i will want to devote. That is where the da300 comes in. with the converter it would cost about 1400euros

I have a 55 300. Walking around in a nearby bird reserve, i noticed 300 does not really cut it. However, spending some time checking pics from the da300, i have the impression one can crop a lot before losing details, quite a lot. I have a K3 btw..
So in that sense, i'd expect another kind of 300mm than with my 55 300. Correct or nonsense??

I'm aware of the HD 1.4 converter. But i want to find out whether i will be pleased with cropping possibilities without the converter.

Or if anyone feels i should really directly aim for the higher stuff? (you know, better chance of keeping up with learning the guitar when having a good guitar to begin with..)

All opinions appreciated..

11-10-2017, 02:33 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Hi Grispie
Good question.
I'm lucky to have a good range of lenses. I love love my 60-250. I have the sigma 500. The sigma 500 can't go everywhere I go so I got the 300. The quality of my 300 is magic. It does a very respectable job with the pentax TC where with the 60-250 and the TC is is very disappointing.

Birding photos is my obsession. The pentax system in my opinion has a weaker focusing system compared with Nikon. On the other hand using the controls on the K3 is far superior to anything else in its its class (my opinion said politely). The pentax 300 is quite light compared to most alternatives.

My bird photography style is to have my gear ready to fire away. It can take years to get great shots of some species. It's about finding the opportunities to get in close.

If you want quick success with bird photos both a Nikon system with a zoom with good reach or a pentax using a prime should get great results. I think the TC on my 300 slows down the focusing. However it will do me as I'm hanging over the side of a zodiac photographing penguins and seals in sub Antarctic waters.
11-10-2017, 02:42 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I too started with the 55-300mm. I went to the DA*300m plus HD TC and moved from a K-r to a a K-3 because I wanted improvements in magnification and image quality, but that was as much as I wanted to carry around. I come to this as a birder and I always carry binoculars and sometimes a telescope as well.
I haven't tried the 150-450. The images on the forum show that it's a superb lens, but it would be another order of magnitude in terms of size and weight including a tripod, which is more of an optional item with the DA*300+TC. I'm using my tripod more these days, but with my setup it's OK to use a lighter one and I keep it in a backpack rather than having it always attached to the camera.
Most of my bird images are at least moderately cropped, and, depending on the conditions, I'm pleased with the ability to do this with my setup.
I bought the DA* 300 and the TC together. I often remove the TC when the lighting gets bad, but at 300mm you are at the low end of the practicable range for most bird shots.
Hope that helps - whatever you choose you are in for a lot of fun!
11-10-2017, 02:49 PM   #4
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G'DAY Grispie

The money hole is calling.
300mm is 300mm reguardless.
The DA with a the 1.4 tele is maybe better than the Sigma alturnatives ( 150 - 500 , 50 - 500 )
But possably under the 2000 euro mark?
More expierenced will come on board soon
Most of all have fun
Dave

11-10-2017, 03:08 PM   #5
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Hello grispie,
I spend most of my time shooting birds, and most of it with the K-3 II and DFA 150-450 + 1.4x TC (630mm).
I started out with a 300mm but it was too short, migrated to the DFA 150-450 but found that was also too short much of the time...added the 1.4x TC and still end up having to crop quite a bit as well!
I suspect I really need a FA 600 f/4 + 1.4x TC, if I could carry it!
My view is you want the longest lens you can carry.
Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Terry
11-10-2017, 05:06 PM - 2 Likes   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
So, first things first, i need a telelens & want to find out whether a da300 will match my expectations.
There are other options, such as 150-450, a nikon body with 200 500 (friends tell me to just get a nikon for this..)
So in that sense, i'd expect another kind of 300mm than with my 55 300. Correct or nonsense??
Or if anyone feels i should really directly aim for the higher stuff?
All opinions appreciated..
a) Will the 300 prime outperform the 55-300 zoom? Absolutely, but there are limits. If you found not enough reach with the zoom, even with more capability to crop and keeping IQ is better with the 300, I think you'd still be dissatisfied.

b) Would a Nikon D500 with a 400/500 outperform the K3 with a 300mm. Absolutely, but it's a pricy rabbit hole.

c) My advice? Do you have the relatively new Pentax-DA 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE? In birding, it's mostly about being in the place of greatest potential for the birds to come to you and that zoom with the improved AF focusing speed is exceptional.

I am not a hardcore birder, but I do love shooting birds, although they are not in the wild. Here are some samples of what I've gotten with an 85mm prime on FF.
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11-10-2017, 05:30 PM - 2 Likes   #7
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Casual Birding

You might call me a 'casual birder'. I'll catch some shots of relatively static birds when I'm hiking on trails and through the bush.

I've used a DA* 300 for several years, earlier on a K-5 II and currently a K-3 II. It's a superb lens that almost guarantees to give me good results. I do crop a bit on my K-3 images and am pleased with the results.

Edit: Other features include a relatively close minimum focus distance (140 cm); weather seals; excellent performance wide open at f/4; and manageable weight (1 kg).

Here are several examples.

(Well, not a bird)







Mink. Heavily cropped.












Last edited by c.a.m; 11-10-2017 at 06:13 PM.
11-10-2017, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #8
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I am on the same fence as you are. I have a K-3 and DA*200, HD 1.4TC and the 55-300 PLM. I certainly would want more reach and am considering trading in the DA*200 for the DA* 300 with the hope it will give me a high quality 420mm with the TC.
As far as what I have I can use the DA*200 with the TC and that gives me 280mm f4.0 or I can zoom the 55-300 PLM out to about 280mm where it will still be f5.6. Comparing this combo the difference in sharpness to my 65 year old eyes on my 21.5 inch iMac is negligible. What is not negligible is the difference in autofocus and here the PLM is far better, enough so that when I head out to my favorite birding place: Bombay Hook National Wildlife Refuge, it is the PLM that I take. I will decide later this year whether I will make the jump to the DA*300. The DFA 150-450 is too big, heavy and expensive for my consideration for now.
11-10-2017, 05:55 PM - 1 Like   #9
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I've been hedging on this same question, as well - recently discussed it over in my prime thread, specifically the DA*300 vs DA*60-250 debate.... after scouring flickr for sample images, I'm looking for a DA*300 or the F/FA variants...
11-10-2017, 07:26 PM - 3 Likes   #10
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Before getting the DA*300 I rented a Sigma 50-500 and used it for a couple of days at Magee Marsh during the spring Warbler migration. My decision was between these two lenses, I chose the Pentax as it is faster and most of the birds I'm after are are in trees in wooded areas, so it's sometimes pretty dark in the forest. The Sigma struggled in some areas. That 500mm is nice if you have enough light, but the Pentax is faster and has excellent IQ. The autofocus could be faster and it would be even better. One thing a lot of the better bird photographers says is get closer. It's true but very hard. I don't think I've helped you much, but technique is probably as important as the lens, and lens selection may be based on the habitats you shoot in, you have a lot more light shooting ducks on a lake than woodpeckers in a dense forest. Here's a few examples, most of my bird photos are cropped, usually a lot.

With the DA*300, the large barred owl was about 50 feet away:


With the DA*300, This northern saw-whet owl was about 20-30 feet away, a much smaller owl and cropped quite a bit:


DA*300: This Golden-Winged Warbler was so close I couldn't fit her in the frame:


This Ruby-Crowned Kinglet was shot with the DA 55-300, the bird was only about 10 feet away.


Da* 300: Palm Warbler, heavy crop


I have a lot of examples on my Flickr site in albums: Warblers, Birds, Owls
11-10-2017, 07:47 PM - 1 Like   #11
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The DA*300/4 is the best lens I have ever owned for birding.
Granted, it does not have the reach of a 150-450 nor 500mm but, the IQ is just great.
Some claim that with the 1.4X TC you can have the same IQ but I have reserves on that. The only way to find out is to try it yourself.
Now, if you need to go beyond 300mm (420mm with the TC), then the D FA 150-450 would be a good choice too. Seems like the IQ is close to that of the DA*300/4 on its own.
I have thousands of pictures taken with the DA*300 ... just have a peek at my Flickr account .. link in my signature: it has been used with several cameras: K20D, K7, K5 and K3.
11-10-2017, 09:07 PM - 2 Likes   #12
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DA*300 is sharp and a no brain to go with. but hear me out.. I have the DA55-300 that was a kit with my K-X. Looks like K-x is optimized to work with that lens. I tried using that DA55-300 with K-5ii and AF is sluggish way more slower than with the K-x. On K-x that lens is way more active.

Bottom line DA55-300 is not a slouch from IQ perspective as long as you have plenty of light. The camera built in AF motor pretty much governs the speed in this case and K-x does great with that lens. I am also suspecting K-1 might do even better since its screw drive AF is fast and I feel the torque on my FA*85.

Btw I am not a bird photographer by a long shot (pun). These were the ones I got when I was in bright sunlight with no intentions to capture them as a bird photog. but I did manage to get a couple of keepers out of may be 10-15 shots I took that day.

Btw the upload ruined my image by scaling it down to nothing thats why the pixelation.
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11-10-2017, 10:31 PM - 3 Likes   #13
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I don't own the DA* 300, but do have the FA* 300 and love it as a casual walk around lens. If you think you'll seriously get into birding, I'd either look at getting the Sigma 300 f2.8 + 1.4x TC or a used copy of the FA* 400mm f2.8. You will appreciate the an extra 100 - 120mm. If you want to bite the bullet and go big, the Sigma 500 f/4.5 is fantastic, and still my fave lens I'll take her through anything, hike for hours with her slung over my shoulder on my tripod.

Example of the Sigma 500 on the K3 - a fair bit of cropping.



and one of the FA* 300 on the K1 - a bit of a crop.

11-10-2017, 11:02 PM - 3 Likes   #14
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The DA*300 (with or without the teleconverter) is more than adequate for my occasional and unambitious attempts at birding.





















Hmmmm. Maybe i should pull my finger out and do this more often.
11-10-2017, 11:40 PM - 1 Like   #15
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Birding/ wildlife photography is an expensive proposition, many PF members would attest to that. The DA* 300 is an excellent lens, but as other's have stated you always go for the longest lens you can carry. The bigger the lens, the more accessories you'll have to carry; tripod/monopod, gimbal head etc.
Here's a size comparison of some of the offerings in K mount
Left to right: Sigma EX DG 70-200 f2/8 HSM II, Da* 60-250 f/4, Sigma APO 400mm f5.6 Telelmacro, Sigma Ex Dg 300mm f2.8
Consider also the F*/Fa* 300 f4.5, excellent sharpness, and the smallest of the bunch
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