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11-20-2017, 05:20 AM   #1
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To FA* 24/2 or not?

I need advice. I've been looking into acquiring a wide angle, but I'm a bit unsure of what I should buy or do I even really need one. Would I be better off by starting to save for K1 right away? I try to give some background info and my reasoning so far.

I have been shooting with manual prime lenses for a year now. It has been very educating experience and has drawn me deeper into photographing step by step. Today I think photography as a hobby. Earlier I was just snapping holiday memories in auto mode. I don't sell my work. so I don't need to satisfy anybody else but me and I don't mind loosing shooting occasions from time to time for being to slow on manual gear. I also enjoy the challenge and control that fully manual prime lenses offer and currently have no interest in zoom lenses or any auto functions. I do have DA 18-135, but don't use it anymore.

So far I have been collecting M series primes. I currently own 28/3.5, 35/2, 50/1.7, 85/2, 100/2.8, 120/2.8, 200/4 and 300/4. My original plan was to get M20/4 to be my ultra wide, but according to reviews it's not as sharp as most other primes in M series or other 20mm Pentax lenses. As I already have cast 100/2.8 aside for not being on acceptable level in sharpness for my taste, I have started to second guess my plan. Especially because the sharpness of M100 is not generally questioned. M20 is in my preferred price group, but would be waste of money if I don't use it. But sharpness is not all in all for me. I really like the colors, bokeh and rendition in M series and view M50/1.7 a much better lens than DA50/1.8, which was my main lens before my first manual lenses.

So I started looking for other options, but it only lead to confusion. I want FF compatibility as I aim to upgrade my camera to K1 at some point. This leaves DA21 out. Flare resistance is the weak point in M series, so now that I'm stepping out of it, I would like to have upgrade in that. If I have understood correctly K and A series don't offer much upgrade in flare resistance compared to M. I have come to conclusion that FA series might be my best option, but I'm not comfortable with the price of either FA20 or FA*24, as I have tried to keep my spending low.

As this lens would be my choice to shoot against sun and for night time cityscapes, I'm leaning towards the FA*24. Based on the shots I have seen it looks pretty flare resistant, but I would appreciate confirmation for this capability. But the main reason why I prefer 24 are the 8 point starbursts, which I have found to be most pleasing for my eyes. Are there other 8 blade prime lenses 20-24mm prime lenses? If I could get FA*24 for about 300€ from reliable source, this would be easy choice. But in Europe the prices are a bit higher and in Finland even more so. There is a FA*24 for 555€ in local camera store. It just feels too expensive.

Therefore I have started to question if I really even need a prime in that width. I went thru a lot of shot I took when I still used my 18-135. I rarely shot at 18 and preferred 20 something focal lengths when shooting wide. As I was looking the shots I also noticed that I didn't really care for my work at 18mm. When I move to FF I will get approximately same FOW with my 28mm as I have with 18 on APS-C. This makes me wonder if found use for 24mm on FF? On the other hand, while on the APS-C, from time to time I have found 28mm too narrow and would like to have a wider lens, but is 24mm wide enough?

11-20-2017, 05:24 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
This makes me wonder if found use for 24mm on FF?
I don't think we can tell you that. If you have the budget, buy one and you can sell it used with a minimal loss, in case you find you never use it. I think 555euro is a bit expensive, though. You can get an older manual 24mm at much lower cost if you want to just do a test with its FoV. The image quality (sharpness, starbursts) won't be the same, but FoV will be. Go on a couple walks with just that focal length and see how much you like it

The lens looks very appealing especially because it is FF and we don't know when Pentax will even announce a 24mm FF prime.
I think you should make a list by bullet points and then compare it to alternatives like Samyang 24mm, Pentax A 24mm,.. Pentax DA 15mm (known for nice rendering, thought its not FF)
11-20-2017, 05:30 AM - 1 Like   #3
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My m 20/4 is plenty sharp. Also works great on the K-1
11-20-2017, 06:09 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
As I already have cast 100/2.8 aside for not being on acceptable level in sharpness for my taste, I have started to second guess my plan. Especially because the sharpness of M100 is not generally questioned.
You might have a bad copy?

QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
I want FF compatibility as I aim to upgrade my camera to K1 at some point. This leaves DA21 out.
I regularly use the 21 on full frame, in crop mode. For me no other lens offers the kind of starbursts that the 21 offers (apart from the 15 which I don't own). The 15 in crop mode gives you a comparable FOV as a 22 on full frame.

QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
As this lens would be my choice to shoot against sun and for night time cityscapes, I'm leaning towards the FA*24.
By all accounts the 24 is a fine choice.

QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
But the main reason why I prefer 24 are the 8 point starbursts, which I have found to be most pleasing for my eyes.
The 24 has a good reputation for starbusts. No more, no less. The best lenses for this are the 15, 21 and 43 (surprisingly). The 31 is pretty good also.

The 15 and 21 are also much smaller than the 24 if that's important for you.

Good luck in your search.

11-20-2017, 06:26 AM   #5
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This an area of extreme neglect int he Pentax FF catalogue. With no primes in the current catalogue less than the 31mm for FF, it's one of those things that make us wonder if Pentax is asleep at the wheel. The current catalogue choices are DFA 15-30, a huge lens not suitable for landscape, accept for points 100 feet from the road or less. I've heard a lot of good, things about the K/M 20mm. I suspect cropping a 20mm to 24 is easier than stitching.

But two DFA lens cover 24mm.... the 15-30, the 24-70.
11-20-2017, 06:35 AM   #6
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When I was complaining about this sort of thing, you thought it was just fine. Were you arguing for the sake of arguing?
11-20-2017, 07:06 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
When I was complaining about this sort of thing, you thought it was just fine. Were you arguing for the sake of arguing?
Back when I was looking for a 24-105 instead of a 28-105 it was more of a big deal. The DFA 28-105 has pretty much looked after it for me, as has the FAJ 18-35. So, I'm alright jack. Folks just need to get something that works and go with it. I state it as fact, I'm not complaining. If Pentax comes out with something in the next 10 years, it would be nice. But i really have no problem with their current direction. The current trend in photography seems to be huge heavy heavily corrected zooms and primes. Even if Pentax comes out with something, under the current direction of the industry, it's very unlikely to be something I'll want. The DFA 28-105 was the bone they threw to their old customers. They are now looking to increase market share by appealing to the modern "bigger is better" we don't care about the cost crowd.

I'm not so concerned about absence in a given focal length. I'm more concerned about the lack of new lightweight more portable lenses. The simple fact is, folk like myself are going to be looking for old glass. In every focal length. It's not just WA. The current Pentax doesn't consider shooters like me in their design concepts So it's more resignation.

As my Asian studies prof. once explained. "I have no need to be consistent. Consistency implies nothing ever changes, no new information has come forward, no new circumstances. Consistency is sign you're in a rut."

Circumstance change so do I. The 28-105 is so much better than I was expecting, it's killed a lot of scepticism. And the FAJ 18-35 as bad as it was on my K-3 is decent on my K-1, and nice and light weight. I'm almost at the point where I'd say just go out and buy something suitable. The perceived negatives aren't going to be as bad as you think. Mulling over what is and isn't there is wasting time. Get something in the FL you need and use it. People may say things like "Not modern, not corrected, not sharp edge to edge. That kind of stalling is not productive.

If you need something go out and get it. If you don't, that's just a sign you didn't really need it.

I have a Sigma 8-16 and a Sigma 70 macro. I love what they do, but I'm not going to carry them in my bag. Pentax modern glass is like that, except for the DFA 28-105. IMHO the DFA 28-105 is the only modern glass designed for the traditional Pentax users who bought into the brand for lightweight WR gear.. Everything else is "me too" with all the other companies.

There is no modern UWA Pentax glass, and looking at the 50 and 85 1.4s, I probably wouldn't buy them if there was.

Reality is sinking in.

There are Samyang 20s and 24s. If you need that focal length buy them. I know people who have and are quite happy with them. IN fact the first K-1 ever saw had a very proud owner, with a Samyang 24 on the front. There's a difference tween, "there's no solution" and "it's not good enough for me."


Last edited by BigMackCam; 11-20-2017 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Keeping it friendly
11-20-2017, 07:52 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the comments so far. I try to go thru the points offered. As said I would like to keep spending low and acquired IQ high. This limits my choices to used lenses. Anything new is too expensive. I also want to stay with prime lenses.

Considering the lenses I already own. 20mm would probably be better choice than 24, if I keep 28 in my camera bag. On the other hand, if I get 24 I can leave 28 home as my 35 will definitely stay in bag. In the end either way is probably good enough.

I have seriously considered both DA 15 and 21, but not willing to spend on them, as they are not FF lenses. Otherwise very tempting choices with small size, flare resistance and night shooting capabilities.

I suck at selling. I hang on to what I got, if there is even a slight chance that I might need it some point. I try to buy only stuff that I intent to use for a long time.

I think that my M100 is OK. The problem with sharpness is very subtle and doesn't bother in all shots. It bothers me only when there is a lot of small detail in the shot. That's when it doesn't keep up with IQ from M120, M85 or M50. In a simpler scene it works well. Based on the shots I have seen from M20 it might have similar issues. Yes, I do pixel peep and maybe I'm too critical about technical execution of the shot, but I'm an engineer not an artist

I think the question is; Is there ultra wide FF legacy glass with better IQ than FA*24? It's not so expensive that I really would settle for less, but expensive enough that I might decide to live without and keep on stitching panoramas.
11-20-2017, 08:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
Thanks for all the comments so far. I try to go thru the points offered. As said I would like to keep spending low and acquired IQ high. This limits my choices to used lenses. Anything new is too expensive. I also want to stay with prime lenses.

Considering the lenses I already own. 20mm would probably be better choice than 24, if I keep 28 in my camera bag. On the other hand, if I get 24 I can leave 28 home as my 35 will definitely stay in bag. In the end either way is probably good enough.

I have seriously considered both DA 15 and 21, but not willing to spend on them, as they are not FF lenses. Otherwise very tempting choices with small size, flare resistance and night shooting capabilities.

I suck at selling. I hang on to what I got, if there is even a slight chance that I might need it some point. I try to buy only stuff that I intent to use for a long time.

I think that my M100 is OK. The problem with sharpness is very subtle and doesn't bother in all shots. It bothers me only when there is a lot of small detail in the shot. That's when it doesn't keep up with IQ from M120, M85 or M50. In a simpler scene it works well. Based on the shots I have seen from M20 it might have similar issues. Yes, I do pixel peep and maybe I'm too critical about technical execution of the shot, but I'm an engineer not an artist

I think the question is; Is there ultra wide FF legacy glass with better IQ than FA*24? It's not so expensive that I really would settle for less, but expensive enough that I might decide to live without and keep on stitching panoramas.


And the CA is going to be well over a pixel on a K-1 or K-3, meaning visible CA on even you most ordinary images. When I look at primes I'm usually looking for CA of under .7 pixels.

For CA the 21ltd. is acceptable for CA right across it's Aperture range and it's a pancake lens.

The sam

Pentax SMC-FA* 24mm f/2 AL [IF] - Review / Lab Test Report - Analysis

The question here is is the FA*24 going to be good enough? It looks barely functional even on a 10 MP sensor with huge pixel sites. Maybe it's hard tome a good 24mm lens, but at least on APS_c, the DA 16-85, DA 18-135, Sigma 17-50 and Tamron 17-50 are all better at 24mm.

The Samyang on Canon looks a lot better, and much better control of CA as well.


Samyang 24mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC (EOS) - Full Format Review - Analysis
11-20-2017, 09:01 AM   #10
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There is a good review of the Samyang in the review section from the perspective of a k-1 owner.
11-20-2017, 09:17 AM   #11
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Might not be very helpful with your choice of focal length, but thought I'd put my 2 cents in anyway. I was in the same position as you - shooting only manual legacy lenses. Until about 3 months ago when I decided to get my first AF lens. And then I got another. Coming from manual to autofocus proved to be challenging. You'd think it's easy to take photos with AF lens, right? Well, I tell you most of my photos were out of focus. I missed such great shots I was pretty upset. I was convinced the two lenses back focused, but then when I tested them, it turned out they were fine. Took me some time to learn how to take photos with AF lenses. And the two lenses I got (FA 28 and FA 43) are not great in manual mode, not after you've been spoiled by K and M lenses...
11-20-2017, 10:01 AM - 7 Likes   #12
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If the OP is definately going to get a K1 then my advice would be to get the M20mm f4. Use a hood with it and it will take lovely pictures. It is sharp enough for landscape. It is not "cheap" but it is not over expensive either.

As far as the FA* 24mm f2 is concernrd , I love mine on the K1. Yes, it gets mixed reviews. Yes the lab tests will show it is not a stellar performer, certainly compared to more modern lenses. But you know what, I take photographs, not test pictures, and it is a great lens to use and gives me super images.
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11-20-2017, 10:02 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

And the CA is going to be well over a pixel on a K-1 or K-3, meaning visible CA on even you most ordinary images. When I look at primes I'm usually looking for CA of under .7 pixels.

For some reason CA doesn't bother me very much. I don't have test results to compare, but I would guess that M series primes have more CA than FA*24 and I'm very pleased with results I get with them. At least the tested K series lens supports the notion.

Thanks for the test reports. I forgot that such things existed. I have very little experience with lenses they have tested, so haven't really paid attention to them and don't remember where they can be found. I'm familiar only with DA18-135 and DA50. DA50 is really sharp as test results confirm, but I prefer the results I get with the rendition of my M series primes. Inconsistency in the results of 18-135 explain a lot of the issues I had with that lens and explain somewhat why I used it only if the shot simply couldn't be taken with DA50. At best it's a good lens, but at times leave a lot to hope for. Better understanding of it's strengths would probably have produced more good shots, but I was shooting full auto at that time and didn't really know what I was doing.

Back to topic. Test results suggest that it's not worth the money. Is there anything better out there? Should I be happy with what I already got and save my money for camera upgrade? Or is there something in the FA*24 that doesn't show up in the test? At least one thing is certain: I'm not looking for rendition that Samyang offers. It's not my style.
11-20-2017, 10:06 AM   #14
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May I mention that the D-FA 24-70 covers 24mm as well. The total lack of modern lens designs in Pentax fullframe prime land is really not funny. For APS-C things are different. it is hard to find adavantes of Pentax fullframe versus Sony theses days - you can get a full line of f/1.4 from Sigma and Sony, a very nice line of Batis lenses a binch of Tamron f/1.8 designs and even a couple f/2.8. From Pentax you get nothing comparable at the moment.
11-20-2017, 10:19 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
If the OP is definately going to get a K1 then my advice would be to get the M20mm f4. Use a hood with it and it will take lovely pictures. It is sharp enough for landscape. It is not "cheap" but it is not over expensive either.

As far as the FA* 24mm f2 is concernrd , I love mine on the K1. Yes, it gets mixed reviews. Yes the lab tests will show it is not a stellar performer, certainly compared to more modern lenses. But you know what, I take photographs, not test pictures, and it is a great lens to use and gives me super images.
Now that's a stellar shot. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, my plan is to go FF. Most likely to K1 when people start to dump their cameras to get it's successor. Might also be a brand new if I grow tired of waiting for a new model to appear. In most unlikely scenario I purchase K1's successor.

Have you experience also with M20? Is FA* worth the difference in price?
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