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12-13-2017, 06:46 AM   #16
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If you want 28mm AF you could look for an F or FA 28/2.8. I have the latter and it's one of my favourite lenses. Sharp and small. Yes, the FA 31 is better for certain things, but also bigger and considerably more expensive - and I think you'll be hard pressed to see much difference in a stopped-down landscape shot (unless there are star burst inducing lights in the scene, in which case I'd definitely prefer the 31).

All the DA (and FA) Limiteds are wonderful lenses, btw, provided you like those focal lengths.

12-13-2017, 07:22 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Hand smacking head! I own the DA 20-40 myself. I do still think the FA 35 is a good choice since 28mm on the K1000 is not the same Field of View as 28mm on the K200D and yet you find both appealing. The too narrow 50mm FOV on the K200D leads me to think the FA 35 which will have a similar FOV on the K200D as the 50mm on the K1000. Of course the DA 20-40 covers that too - but it goes from 2.8 at 20 to 4 at 40 so it isn't very fast and can't be effectively used on the K1000.
So I have considered the DA 20-40 Limited before; I also rejected it for a few reasons. First, the speed topping out at f4 on the 40mm end is discouraging for my typical shooting style (handheld and fast in many different lighting conditions). It's also a zoom, and every zoom I've owned (Sigma, DA 18-55, DA 50-200, Makinon 70-200) I tend to use it as a pair of primes (top end and bottom end). Reviewing my focus lengths in Lightroom corroborates this behaviour. So given that, I'd rather have a 21mm f3.5 and a 40mm f2.8 as opposed to a 20-40 f2.8-4. I get it's an amazing lens, but it's just not for me.
12-13-2017, 07:35 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by shadowjester Quote
So I have considered the DA 20-40 Limited before; I also rejected it for a few reasons. First, the speed topping out at f4 on the 40mm end is discouraging for my typical shooting style (handheld and fast in many different lighting conditions). It's also a zoom, and every zoom I've owned (Sigma, DA 18-55, DA 50-200, Makinon 70-200) I tend to use it as a pair of primes (top end and bottom end). Reviewing my focus lengths in Lightroom corroborates this behaviour. So given that, I'd rather have a 21mm f3.5 and a 40mm f2.8 as opposed to a 20-40 f2.8-4. I get it's an amazing lens, but it's just not for me.
That seems like a good assessment. I own it and pair it with the 50-135 when I want a light zoom kit with good iq. I prefer carrying it to the 16-50 in that kit I also often add the DA 15 and the HD DA 1.4x. That allows me wide to moderate telephoto in a light package.

I don't own a 20mm so my most commonly carried prime kit is DA 15, FA 31 or DA 40, FA 77 or DA 70.
12-13-2017, 12:29 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Keep in mind that the DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 was conceived along with the amazing advancements of recent DSLR designs. I've long had a K-200D and K-20D bought new but in a great closeout deal when the K-7 appeared. I enjoyed them for some years, but have moved on and should sell them, although they are still good cameras but with definite limitations. With the far better high-ISO performance capabilities of the K-5 series, f/4 became the new f/2.8, which was also reflected in a new line of f/4 lenses appearing in Canon's premium "L" category, being that similar advancements had taken place with their latest DSLRs.

Now with yet greater improvement in the K-70 and KP, a lens capable of good performance wide open at f/4 could outperform one of f/2.8 on your K-200D with ease. I love the DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 Limited on my KP. I bought them in silver and they are classically beautiful as well. Now I only take my DA 21mm and DA 40mm Limiteds when I need to go extra-compact.

It is not that the K-200D cannot still take a good picture in decent lighting, but as you express in your own need, it limits what you can select among fine lenses that could work for you. So, if you are able and willing to move into the price range of such lenses, a body that will perform to take full advantage of what they offer, such as compactness with great imaging capabilities, is not stretching things. Also, visibly improved resolution, metering, and many other useful features have materialized. Then a future consideration might be directed for a faster Limited, such as the FA 77mm f/1.8, which is a favorite kit for me in a pocket along with the DA 20-40mm on the KP. Something to think about.


Last edited by mikesbike; 12-13-2017 at 12:46 PM.
12-13-2017, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Keep in mind that the DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 was conceived along with the amazing advancements of recent DSLR designs. I've long had a K-200D and K-20D bought new but in a great closeout deal when the K-7 appeared. I enjoyed them for some years, but have moved on and should sell them, although they are still good cameras but with definite limitations. With the far better high-ISO performance capabilities of the K-5 series, f/4 became the new f/2.8, which was also reflected in a new line of f/4 lenses appearing in Canon's premium "L" category, being that similar advancements had taken place with their latest DSLRs.

Now with yet greater improvement in the K-70 and KP, a lens capable of good performance wide open at f/4 could outperform one of f/2.8 on your K-200D with ease. I love the DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 Limited on my KP. I bought them in silver and they are classically beautiful as well. Now I only take my DA 21mm and DA 40mm Limiteds when I need to go extra-compact.

It is not that the K-200D cannot still take a good picture in decent lighting, but as you express in your own need, it limits what you can select among fine lenses that could work for you. So, if you are able and willing to move into the price range of such lenses, a body that will perform to take full advantage of what they offer, such as compactness with great imaging capabilities, is not stretching things. Also, visibly improved resolution, metering, and many other useful features have materialized. Then a future consideration might be directed for a faster Limited, such as the FA 77mm f/1.8, which is a favorite kit for me in a pocket along with the DA 20-40mm on the KP. Something to think about.
You make some good points, but I doubt a new camera body is in my future at the present moment. I have a very limited lens kit that's mostly defined by manual lenses, so I'd rather update those first before I update my body. Whichever lenses I pick up will be used on whatever I upgrade to, and wide apertures will always be helpful, regardless of the ISO levels available (plus, doesn't matter what sensor you have, everything looks better at ISO100/200).

Well, I think I'm leaning toward the HD DA21 Ltd being the first lens I'll pick up, with my final kit looking like SMC DA15 Ltd (for the flares), HD DA21, F28, HD DA40, and HD DA70. I think if I go for zooms in the future to replace the Sigma at any point, I'll probably get both the DFA24-70 and DFA*70-200 lenses.
12-13-2017, 04:00 PM   #21
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While not a prime, the F/FA 28-105 is no slouch of a lens (and much cheaper than the HD DFA 28-105). I myself am quite a fan of the m28 f/2.8, but when I want some versatility while walking, I use the FA 28-105, plus it's autofocus and fairly light. I've also considered the DA 40 xs. Telephoto range, I've wanted the da*300 f/4 but can't afford it even used. If you want wider than 18mm both the samyang/rokinon 10mm and 14mm are nice lenses, but a bit heavier and not autofocus but there is the option of the Irix 15mm which might be a bit lighter weight and it is weather sealed.
12-13-2017, 05:30 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by shadowjester Quote
Well, I think I'm leaning toward the HD DA21 Ltd being the first lens I'll pick up, with my final kit looking like SMC DA15 Ltd (for the flares), HD DA21, F28, HD DA40, and HD DA70. I think if I go for zooms in the future to replace the Sigma at any point, I'll probably get both the DFA24-70 and DFA*70-200 lenses.
Looks like a very good choices you have there.
If you like night photo, you might want to consider the older green ring version of 21 and 15. They have better-looking starbursts.
I used to have F28, and it was a very good lense. It's sharp wide open. I sell it because I want to buy a 20-40 back then but I ended up with 21 and I really like it, Now I have a big gap between 21 and 50. I plan to fill in the gap with 35 limited green ring because of its starburst effect. Not sure if you addicted to night photo and starburst effect as I am? If so, starburst effect on F28 is one of the main weakness I could think of. Anyway, it was a real good investment.

I have never owned the 40 and 70 ltd because I jump to 50 and 100wr.

Last edited by pakinjapan; 12-13-2017 at 05:43 PM.
12-13-2017, 06:03 PM - 1 Like   #23
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Sometimes you can get a good deal by getting a desirable lens as part of a kit with a new camera body. I do quite a lot of low-light shooting myself. All of the lenses you are contemplating are of the upper end of quality, that's for sure. I have many of them. Just so you know, although the DA 70mm is a very fine lens, it was lab-tested as actually being 65mm, while the FA 77mm is right on, in addition to being a stop faster. I love this lens!

I have so very often taken a kit out and about changing between my DA 21mm, FA 28mm, DA 40mm or FA 43mm, and FA 77mm with my K-200D, with very good resulting images. I still have many of these images. I also have a Sigma 24mm f/1.8 EX DG, prime, as well as a Sigma 24-60mm f/2.8 and Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 zoom lenses, among others. When I later acquired a Pentax K-5 it was a game-changer in many ways. Not only for better resolution, and far better low noise performance, but it was also a major step forward in dynamic range. I think digital still lags behind print film in exposure latitude, but this improvement is real. It provided a much greater ISO range with little or no quality loss. This meant, in hand-held shooting, I could confidently use ISO 400 instead of the previously-used 200, or 1600 instead of 800, etc. without significant noise or loss of detail. So I could go ahead using my neat, high-quality little DA 21mm f/3.2 Limited instead of having to deal with hauling out my much larger, heavier Sigma 24mm f/1.8, which has less wide angle. My excellent Pentax 12-24mm f/4 became every bit as good as a similar f/2.8 lens on older model bodies. This has been even more true with my KP. So now, with my new DA 20-40mm Limited WR, I can do a lot more with just one lens, easier when being out and around, and for getting the exact framing I want also. The improvement in IQ with this new camera body has been substantial. Now a typical out and around kit is the KP with the DA 20-40mm in a modest-size belt/shoulder holster with the DA 15mm LTD in the holster's front accessory pocket, and the FA77mm LTD in a jacket pocket.

When I was shooting with the K-20D and K-200D, I essentially did lens-wise what you are contemplating. And I enjoyed that experience. Now, however, the options have changed. Maybe exposure latitude has even surpassed film, in that now it can be manipulated quite successfully, and even quickly in-camera!

I am not selling my fast lenses or Limited primes. There are times when I would prefer to have just an ultra-compact lens, like the 21mm Limited on the camera for the most compact carrying possible, yet still versatile. And maybe the tiny 40mm LTD in a pocket or on camera. Maybe on the very light, compact K-S2 body. There are also situations when dealing with both lower light and moving subjects, where higher ISO is a must to get the required shutter speed, even with a fast lens. It helps tremendously when the resulting image is affected little if at all.


Last edited by mikesbike; 12-13-2017 at 06:43 PM.
12-13-2017, 06:04 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by shadowjester Quote
I think I'm leaning toward....my final kit looking like SMC DA15 Ltd (for the flares), HD DA21, F28, HD DA40, and HD DA70.
Excellent lenses. Just a thought - the DA35 limited would plug the gap between 21 and 70 with one lens rather than two, and give you 1:1 macro.
12-13-2017, 06:40 PM   #25
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Sandy's observation regarding the fine macro lens is a good one.

However, I just noticed, with their holiday specials, B&H is offering the DA 20-40mm LTD and the KP both in silver, bought separately, for $1,477- a savings of about $400. They also have a kit of silver body and black lens for the same price. When considering the FL coverage of that lens being of several lenses, its fine WR build, its accurate, quiet DC AF, and its fine imaging quality, not a bad deal.

Last edited by mikesbike; 12-13-2017 at 11:03 PM.
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