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01-30-2018, 03:47 PM   #1
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FA vs. D FA for K-1 - a real difference in image quality?

Hi,

First up - this is my first post here as I've just purchased a K-1 - still waiting for it to arrive, in fact. I'm completely new to Pentaxia and to Full Frame digital photography in general and I have a few newbie questions related to the Pentax lens range that I'm hoping you folks can help me with.

I'm choosing lenses and have been pouring over reviews of lenses on this site, and I'd like to know whether there is any *general* differences in the D FA range that make them better, optically, for the K-1 than (older, cheaper and usually far lighter) FA lenses. I've heard suggestion that D FA are "specifically designed for digital cameras", but what does that actually translate into in terms of real world image quality? What exactly does the "D" in "D FA" add to the "FA"? Can FA lenses (especially FA*) keep up with the increase in resolution the K-1 provides over film, or would I be wasting some of the K-1's capacity to pair it even with some of the better FA* lenses?

Cheers,

Socrateeze

01-30-2018, 04:02 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
Hi,

First up - this is my first post here as I've just purchased a K-1 - still waiting for it to arrive, in fact. I'm completely new to Pentaxia and to Full Frame digital photography in general and I have a few newbie questions related to the Pentax lens range that I'm hoping you folks can help me with.

I'm choosing lenses and have been pouring over reviews of lenses on this site, and I'd like to know whether there is any *general* differences in the D FA range that make them better, optically, for the K-1 than (older, cheaper and usually far lighter) FA lenses. I've heard suggestion that D FA are "specifically designed for digital cameras", but what does that actually translate into in terms of real world image quality? What exactly does the "D" in "D FA" add to the "FA"? Can FA lenses (especially FA*) keep up with the increase in resolution the K-1 provides over film, or would I be wasting some of the K-1's capacity to pair it even with some of the better FA* lenses?

Cheers,

Socrateeze
welcome

perhaps it would be worth your time to look at these resources:

Pentax Lens Compatibility Chart
Copyright 2006-2016 Mosphotos.com. All rights reserved.

Pentax bayonet lenses labeled "SMC Pentax" are referred to as "K" lenses in the table below. Other Pentax bayonet lenses have the lens designation as a part of their name as in "SMC Pentax-FA."
Note that "star" lenses work like their "non-star" counterparts: DA* lenses work like DA lenses, FA* like FA, F* like F, A* like A, and M* like M.
Exceptions: FA and F "soft" lenses behave like M lenses in terms of metering.

The Pentax Camera Lens Compatibility Chart

__________________________

Pentax K-Mount Lens Series Explained: The differences between various Pentax lens series

In a nutshell

There are several series of Pentax K-mount lenses; the ones currently being produced include the DA (digital), DA L (cheap digital kit), D FA (full-frame, digital optimized), and FA (full-frame) series. While all Pentax K-mount lenses ever produced are compatible with all current Pentax DSLRs (in some cases with restrictions in that not all exposure modes of the camera are supported by old lenses), there are significant differences between each lens series and each has different features. Furthermore some of the newer lenses do not work with older cameras. We'll be exploring the differences between the various K-mount series lenses in this article. . . .


Remarks: smc PENTAX-D FA lenses work like FA lenses. They have been optimized optically for digital sensors but work equally well on a 35 mm film camera (D FA lenses without an aperture ring require that the aperture can be set from the camera - these lenses are thus not suitable for use on all film cameras). Their image circle covers the full 24 by 36mm negative format. These lenses provide an easy way to manually fine tune the subject distance set by the autofocus system ("quick shift" focusing system).
DC: Lenses with the DC designation feature a built-in autofocus motor and no screw drive AF mechanism. These lenses can only autofocus with newer cameras (K100D Super, K10D, and later). The HD PENTAX-D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW is an example of a D FA lens without screw drive support.
The second version of the SMC Pentax-D FA 100mm F2.8 Macro WR does not feature an aperture ring, unlike its non-weather-sealed D FA predecessor. . . .



The FA series lenses are autofocus and allow for certain modern cameras (film and digital) to automatically set aperture (Tv mode), shutter speed (Av mode), or both (Program mode). You can also set exposure manually if the camera body allows for this. On recent camera bodies (e.g. *ist and all digital SLR cameras) you use dials on the camera body to set the aperture value (the aperture ring on the lens must be in the "A" position at all times). On older models (such as ZX-5N, MZ-5N, LX, ME, MX, K1000) the aperture is set with the aperture ring on the lens.

Three FA "Limited" lenses were made available in 2001. Except for these and the 35mm f/2 and 50mm f/1.4, the FA series, which consisted of 42 lenses total, has been discontinued.
While FA lenses are identical in operation to F lenses, they feature improved electronics that support the MTF program line.

The FA series also includes 11 "star" lenses (FA*) that employ the finest of Pentax optical and mechanical engineering.
*Exceptions: The smc PENTAX-FA Soft 85mm F2.8 and smc PENTAX-FA Soft 28mm F2.8 lenses have no "A" setting on the aperture ring. Hence they work like smc PENTAX-M lenses with respect to exposure; they are still autofocus. The "A" setting has been removed because the degree of image softness is controlled by the aperture ring and it would be meaningless to let the camera decide the setting.

**Power zoom is only supported by certain camera bodies. The following lenses feature power zoom:
-SMC Pentax-FA 28-80mm F3.5-4.7
-smc PENTAX-FA 28-105mm F4-5.6
-smc PENTAX-FA 70-200mm F4-5.6
-smc PENTAX-FA 100-300mm F4.5-5.6
-smc PENTAX-FA* 28-70mm F2.8 AL
-smc PENTAX-FA* 80-200mm F2.8 ED [IF]
-smc PENTAX-FA* 250-600mm F5.6 ED [IF]

Pentax K-Mount Lenses Explained: The differences between various Pentax lens series

those are free

there is an Ebook as well for a reasonable price you might want to consider

Instantly download your Pentax eBook! (K-1, K-70,K-3, K-5, K-50, K-S2 and more DSLRs) - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by aslyfox; 01-30-2018 at 04:07 PM.
01-30-2018, 04:04 PM   #3
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F*/FA* lenses were the best of the best in the late 80’s - late 90*s film era and most of them are still highly sought after today. A few (such as the F*300/2.8) have even achieved a cult following among Pentax optics cognoscenti. Likewise the ‘Three Princesses’ FA Limiteds are highly desirable lenses, whether legacy Japan or current Vietnam issues.

D FA lenses (D apparently does denote digital) are designed with both digital sensor characteristics in mind (coating on rear element to reduce reflections from the sensor) and the more modern appreciation for sharpness and high resolution, in contrast to the legacy style of softer edges and 3D pop. D FA* lenses continue to represent no-compromise, in-house designs, Pentax’ best effort.

There is much deeper and more nuanced opinion available; the above is just mine. And we haven’t even started on manual lenses.
01-30-2018, 04:11 PM   #4
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from the K 1 " In Depth Review "

Pentax K-1 Review
Available Lenses
The Pentax K-1 is compatible with every Pentax K-mount lens ever made without the need for an adapter, and with little or no restrictions in terms of functionality: this includes over 204 genuine full-frame lenses in addition to thousands of third-party offerings. Furthermore, you can adapt M42, M37, 645, and 6x7 lenses. Refer to our lens compatibility guide for further details, or seek advice in the lens forum. . . .

Read more at: Pentax K-1 Review - Available Lenses | PentaxForums.com Reviews

the article goes on to discuss the K 1 and the different Pentax lenses series

01-30-2018, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
Hi,

First up - this is my first post here as I've just purchased a K-1 - still waiting for it to arrive, in fact. I'm completely new to Pentaxia and to Full Frame digital photography in general and I have a few newbie questions related to the Pentax lens range that I'm hoping you folks can help me with.

I'm choosing lenses and have been pouring over reviews of lenses on this site, and I'd like to know whether there is any *general* differences in the D FA range that make them better, optically, for the K-1 than (older, cheaper and usually far lighter) FA lenses. I've heard suggestion that D FA are "specifically designed for digital cameras", but what does that actually translate into in terms of real world image quality? What exactly does the "D" in "D FA" add to the "FA"? Can FA lenses (especially FA*) keep up with the increase in resolution the K-1 provides over film, or would I be wasting some of the K-1's capacity to pair it even with some of the better FA* lenses?

Cheers,

Socrateeze
Generally speaking these are my observations:
1. Modern consumer walkaround zoom lenses are far superior to their film-era counterparts. Specifically, the D FA 28-105mm will easily outdo its film-era competitors, but this also makes sense given the relative cost of the newer lens.
2. Old primes and premium zooms are still really good. They might not be as sharp wide-open and aberrations aren't as well controlled, but they are certainly far from being obsolete (as long as you can deal with noisy AF and lack of quick shift focusing, which is really nice on modern lenses). To give an example, the D FA* 70-200mm is around a stop sharper in the center and has much sharper corners at all aperture settings compared to the FA* 80-200mm, but how often will you be pixel-peeping the corners in real-world shooting?
3. There is an emerging trend for manufacturers to develop optically "perfect" lenses. Take lenses such as the Sigma or Zeiss 50mm's released in the past 2 years. It is largely expected that the upcoming D FA* 50mm F1.4 will follow in their footsteps to deliver corner-to-corner sharpness and distortion-free rending, but this comes at increased cost and bulk. Thus, older lens designs will remain perfectly usable as a more compact option.
4. In-camera correction profiles are included for FA* lenses, as well as FA limiteds, the FA 50mm F1.4, and the FA 35mm F2. This can help deliver solid out-of-camera results with minimal processing effort required on your end if you just want to focus on the photography and its creative aspects.

In short, if money or weight is no object, you won't be disappointed by the fast D FA lenses. However, with the exception of the cheap zoom lenses (in my opinion), F/FA lenses are still great and should be considered both for their optical merits and their small size.

Adam
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01-30-2018, 04:19 PM   #6
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Welcome to the world of Pentax and the K-1.

perhaps an explanation of your intended photography style would help with the advice. A broad bit of advice is that the D-FA lenses plus the FF compatable DA lenses (also designed for digital), will generally be more flare resistant that the older film-designed lenses.

Having said that the pentax lineup goes back years and I regularly use 40+ year old lenses on the K-1 with great effect. The FA Limited range are superb lenses as are anything with a * (star) designation.

Here is a good resource for lenses too Pentax K-Mount Lenses and Lens Accessories | The K-Mount Page
01-30-2018, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
What exactly does the "D" in "D FA" add to the "FA"?
Apparently the 'D' designates designed for digital. At least that is the common understanding. DFA lenses are modern designs that are intended for modern, digital cameras. In general they will have excellent optics, superior, modern coatings, in-lens auto focus motors, baffles and rear coatings to help with sensor reflections and no aperture ring.
QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
Can FA lenses (especially FA*) keep up with the increase in resolution the K-1 provides over film, or would I be wasting some of the K-1's capacity to pair it even with some of the better FA* lenses?
This is debated occasionally and my view is rather simplistic: A lens with resolution that exceeded the ability of film will still perform to the same limitation, which might or might not exceed the ability of a new sensor. However a lens that performed poorly on film is not going to be better on digital. So for the most part a good film lens (such as an F* or FA*) will perform quite well on digital. Will that mean you are 'wasting' the K-1? Perhaps, but what is your intended output? Resolution from the camera has to translate into viewing the image. So printing an 8x10 from the K-1 is, I suppose, 'wasting' the K-1's resolution.

Another rule of thumb is that film era primes were quite good and zooms not so much. In modern lenses the ability of zooms like the DFA 28-105 or DFA 24-70 will match or exceed the ability of film era primes. But at this time we have no modern primes to compare to so it is possible when we do get modern primes that they will once again exceed their zoom contemporaries.

Without knowing what your shooting style is it is hard to make any recommendations. But for general photography it is very hard to beat the DFA 28-105. If you require faster glass then the trio of DFA 15-30, DFA 24-70 and DFA*70-200 are available. ANd if you prefer smaller prime lenses take a look at the FA Limited series: FA 31, 43 and 77.

01-30-2018, 04:51 PM   #8
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It is an excellent question. The modern coatings on the D FA lenses are generally superior for resistance to flare. On the other hand, the three FA* lenses I own all render very well on the K-1. Contrast with FA* lenses is excellent. I would not hesitate to recommend any of them (28-70 F2.8, 80-200 F2.8, and 24 F2.0) The modern D FA lenses are perhaps a little better at the extremes of their range and with corner sharpness. I have had the opportunity to compare the D FA 24-70 and the FA* 28-70 and there is little difference at the wide end. The FA* struggles a bit at 70. Still, I ended up keeping the FA* 28-70 I had owned for many years and returned the 24-70 DFA. I subsequently purchased the DFA 15-30 which is excellent. If you see a FA* for a reasonable price, they are generally very good optically.
01-30-2018, 05:39 PM   #9
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I think the FA lineup (and its A, M and K ancestors) will always offer options to you, Socrateeze, if only because it can give you more affordable and smaller alternatives to the modern lenses.

One of our members showed with sample photos that stopped down, the old FA20-35 shot scenes no different from those taken with the massive Sigma 35mm Art.
01-30-2018, 05:58 PM   #10
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Hi All,

Thanks to all for the advice!

I should have mentioned that I am getting the D FA 28-105 with the K-1. It's at the telephoto and super-wide angle that I'm considering other options. The D FA 15-30 looks like wonderful glass, but the cost and (especially) weight are off-putting. I'll be shooting mostly landscape but I need to carry the damned thing backcountry - I'm often out on multi-day self-supported backpacking trips, sometimes of a week or so. Weight makes a bigger difference to me than probably for most people because of where I take my camera.

Consequently, looking at the lens database here I see that the far lighter FA 20-35mm f4 gets very positive reviews (pace some issues with CA and perhaps lens flare), including user ratings for sharpness very similar to that of the D FA 15-30mm. So I wanted to know whether FA/FA* review estimates are, as it were, "calibrated" to film expectations for image quality and thus not compatible to ratings for contemporary lenses.

At the telephoto end I'm looking at the FA* 300mm f4.5 which likewise gets very favourable user reviews here.

By "wasting" the K-1, I'm really thinking about such things as whether the resolving power of such FA/FA* lenses falls short of the resolving power of the K-1 sensor. Maybe all lenses do, I don't know. But having invested a chuck of change in a really good camera, I don't want to "waste" it on lenses that fail to deliver top quality results.

Cheers!

Socrateeze
01-30-2018, 06:02 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
One of our members showed with sample photos that stopped down, the old FA20-35 shot scenes no different from those taken with the massive Sigma 35mm Art.
Cool! - is there a place I can find that (full resolution)?

Cheers,
S.
01-30-2018, 07:01 PM   #12
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I have the D FA 15-30 and I generally leave it behind when I'm on a substantial hike. While I prefer zooms most of the time, I bought an FA 20 on this forum and it's not a bad wide angle compromise with the 28-105 or the 24-70 when size and weight are an issue. It's not quite up to the modern standards of the D FA's but it's small and light so I can always take it along. The ratings are very good, but it's not easy to find one for sale.
01-30-2018, 07:10 PM   #13
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I'll second the kudo's for the tiny little FA20-35. I've owned two and both surpassed my expectations by a lot! Still carry one...Sold my FA20 and FA*24 actually preferring the 20-35.

Note also that the heavy pixel peeping that is part of the digital era tends to look most critically at wide open apertures then sneers at the corners. Or looks at shots of backlit tree branches to wonk about aberrations. As a landscape photographer, you want to know how that lens resolves at f16 (you won't find anywhere near as much analysis of lenses at f16). I think you'll find that the really stunning FA and FA* lenses shine above other lenses of any brand when you get into those deep depth of field f stops. Are they holding off diffraction a bit better? No clue! I know editors like to purchase images shot through the high end FA/FA* lenses and that matters more to me than most technical analyses.

Have a blast!
01-30-2018, 07:21 PM   #14
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I'll third the FA 20-35. Wide open it might not be as good as modern glass, (might not), but it is a landscape lens so you likely will not be shooting at f/4. I bought the DFA 24-70 and looked very hard at the DFA15-30 but the weight just put me off. I picked up a FA 20-35 f/4 and I'm quite happy with it.

My carry kit for the K-1 is:
FA 20-35
DFA 24-70
DA*60-250 (modified)
F 50mm f/1.4
01-30-2018, 07:37 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
Cool! - is there a place I can find that (full resolution)?

Cheers,
S.
Go nuts ... 4 lenses compared at 35mm; Sigma Art vs Pentax 31mm limited vs 20-35mm vs 28-105mm - PentaxForums.com
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