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03-20-2018, 03:56 AM   #1
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FF & ASP-C Combos

So I have a K-1 and KP, I currently have only primes (HD DA15mm F4, DA 40mm 2.8XS, FA 50mm 1.4, DFA 100mm 2.8).

I'm considering future prime-zoom combos, I was wondering if there exists a few obvious choices for a FF and ASP-C set up to cover a wide array of shooting instances.

Lately my KP see's most of the landscape action with the DA15mm, curious what prime zooms the K-1 has open to using in and around this mm. I noted the 15-30mm D FA, not a lot of choice tho is there? Seems the ASP-C has more prime-zooms at that focal range?

If switching from primes to prime zooms and you had that combo of camera bodies what lenses might you consider?

Cheers,

Bruce

03-20-2018, 04:58 AM   #2
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Prime zoom isn't a term normally used that I hear. Prime tends to mean single focal length in the context of cameras. I suppose you mean high quality? Is there a budget?
03-20-2018, 05:07 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Lately my KP see's most of the landscape action with the DA15mm, curious what prime zooms the K-1 has open to using in and around this mm. I noted the 15-30mm D FA, not a lot of choice tho is there? Seems the ASP-C has more prime-zooms at that focal range?
If you're looking for wide angle, full frame primes, for the moment the choices are limited if you want to buy new. In the used market, you can find (speaking only of AF lenses) the FA20 (rare), FA24 (somewhat rare) and F/FA28 (common). Since 15mm on APS-C brings you to 21mm equivalent on full frame, you wouldn't be far.

The Pentax 15-30 is a superb lens and will also work, its main flaw is that it's larger. You can also look at the Irix 11mm and 15mm full frame lenses, these are manual focus but auto aperture. Other manufacturers like Laowa also offer super wide products. Or you can look at older, MF Pentax lenses, there are many. Samyang also make a tilt-shift full frame 24mm, it's more of a specialty lens but if used "straight" it's a 24 like any other lens.

In short there are many options, really it depends on what you like.
03-20-2018, 05:14 AM   #4
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Like Brad, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Prime and zoom are mutually exclusive terms. Are you looking for lenses which will be useful on both formats?

I also have the KP and K-1. For landscapes, all things being equal, I would always go for the K-1.

The DFA28-105 immediately comes to mind if your budget is limited. It would nicely compliment your DA15 on crop, and cover most of the important landscape focal lengths on the K-1.


Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 03-20-2018 at 05:20 AM.
03-20-2018, 06:09 AM   #5
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if you ever expand your horizons

and can either afford new or find, as I did, an " experienced " one in the market place at a good price

the Pentax D FA 70 -200mm F2.8 is well worth a look

it works on both crop and full sensor camera bodies

Last edited by aslyfox; 03-20-2018 at 09:02 AM.
03-20-2018, 06:31 AM   #6
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If you bring both bodies, try using the K1 for wide angle and the KP for telephoto, to play to each camera's strengths.

The DA15 lens has legendary flare resistance but is not full frame. You can use it in square crop mode on the K1.

The DFA 15-30 zoom is very good with the K1 provided the weight and size are not too much for you. It is a sharper lens than the DA15, but doesn't handle flare as well.

The DFA 28-105 is another very good zoom lens. It's a versatile zoom range on the K1, and a fairly compact and light lens. The 28-105 is sharp and has good contrast. Its only limitation is the aperture range; not f2.8 if you need handheld low light or thin depth of field. (but you have a 50/1.4 to handle those needs)

The 28-105 is my most used lens.
03-20-2018, 06:43 AM   #7
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LIke DeadJohn, my 28-105 is my most used lens on the K-1, and also my wife loves it on her K-5. There's not a lot of choice in the wide end. Maybe next year, there will be a UWA prime option. It's on the road map.

Last edited by normhead; 03-20-2018 at 09:20 AM.
03-20-2018, 07:41 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
my fife loves it on her K-5.
I have to assume you meant to type wife instead of fife. Unless you somehow mentally matched this "Definition of fife : a small transverse flute with six to eight finger holes and usually no keys" to Tess.

Back in the day of 35mm film cameras, wasn't anything wider than 28mm considered a novelty lens? Don't get me wrong, I can find lots of scenes where the DA15 is better suited than a zoom at 18mm and once in a while I get a decent picture from a fisheye lens, but I'm wondering if the light bending distortion of UWA lenses takes away from the realism of 3:2 (or 4:3 or 1:1) aspect ratio photographs. I might have to look for 645 images taken with a 25mm lens to test this. Maybe the combination of optics and the dimensions of the image plane have different effects in different formats? Maybe with high resolution sensors, the old APS format which cropped the top and bottom of the image before saving it to give wide aspect ratio images from a circular image circle, might be worth considering? It is much easier to take pictures with the framing we want, if the viewfinder has the same aspect ratio as we want in the final image, but there is no reason why the larger viewfinders of larger format cameras can't be masked to provide this feature.

03-20-2018, 09:21 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
I have to assume you meant to type wife instead of fife. Unless you somehow mentally matched this "Definition of fife : a small transverse flute with six to eight finger holes and usually no keys" to Tess.

Back in the day of 35mm film cameras, wasn't anything wider than 28mm considered a novelty lens? Don't get me wrong, I can find lots of scenes where the DA15 is better suited than a zoom at 18mm and once in a while I get a decent picture from a fisheye lens, but I'm wondering if the light bending distortion of UWA lenses takes away from the realism of 3:2 (or 4:3 or 1:1) aspect ratio photographs. I might have to look for 645 images taken with a 25mm lens to test this. Maybe the combination of optics and the dimensions of the image plane have different effects in different formats? Maybe with high resolution sensors, the old APS format which cropped the top and bottom of the image before saving it to give wide aspect ratio images from a circular image circle, might be worth considering? It is much easier to take pictures with the framing we want, if the viewfinder has the same aspect ratio as we want in the final image, but there is no reason why the larger viewfinders of larger format cameras can't be masked to provide this feature.
For my K-1 I bought the Rokinon 14 2.8. I'll just use it and crop. K-1 images have resolution to burn.
03-20-2018, 09:29 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I'm considering future prime-zoom combos, I was wondering if there exists a few obvious choices for a FF and ASP-C set up to cover a wide array of shooting instances.
Given that I only have one K-mount lens that I frequently shoot with that does not also work on my K-mount film cameras, I have to chuckle a little. Assuming you mean in the full universe of FF K-mount, that answer is that there are NO obvious choices. That being cleared up with the discussion being limited to currently available glass glass currently available new, the choices are much more constrained and determined by the following factors:
  • Price
  • Bulk
  • Performance
  • Convenience
  • Lenses already owned
B&H lists 52 lenses (prime and zoom) for FF K-mount, many of which fall into specialty categories. Several more are of modest optical quality or utility leaving the total at about 45. Winnowing further to zooms only and the choices are vary narrow indeed, about seven with little overlap in range. Filtering for price (say below $1500 USD) and we are down to five. The two lens zoom kit covering from 28 to 200 leaves one long zoom (Tamron), two wide options from Pentax (we know which ones) and an additional wide zoom from Tamron. If zoom range to the ultra-wide is required, add the Pentax D FA 15-30 as a third lens.


Steve

(...of course, we knew all along that the choices are very slim...)

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-20-2018 at 10:59 AM.
03-20-2018, 09:36 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Given that I only have one K-mount lens that I frequently shoot with that does not also work on my K-mount film cameras, I have to chuckle a little. . . .

B&H lists 52 lenses (prime and zoom) for FF K-mount, many of which fall into specialty categories. Several more are of modest optical quality or utility leaving the total at about 45. Winnowing further to zooms only and the choices are vary narrow indeed, about seven with little overlap in range.

Steve
I found this information and really like how they thoroughly explain the Pentax system

The Pentax Camera Lens Compatibility Chart

Pentax K-Mount Lenses Explained: The differences between various Pentax lens series

The Evolution of the Pentax K-mount - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com
03-20-2018, 11:08 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
I found this information and really like how they thoroughly explain the Pentax system
Yes, there are an immense number of lenses that will work as part of a mixed FF/APS-C K-mount kit, so many that LBA is a very real risk while the size and strength of available shelf space holds out. The amazing thing is that there are very, very few standouts or must-haves in terms of performance and/or utility despite multiple cult-classics and fan-favorites. If one was to start another "what's in your bag" thread on this site, it is doubtful that many forum members are packing the same working kit. (Excepting, of course, those owning a K-1 and a two or three-lens kit based on current Pentax offerings and those who bought camera+kit lens bundles.)


Steve
03-20-2018, 12:10 PM   #13
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The 15-30 is the FF product at that focal length, Bruce. A Tamron design that is also available for Canon and Nikon shooters and will have done many weddings and won lots of landscape photo contests.

03-20-2018, 12:54 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Prime zoom isn't a term normally used that I hear. Prime tends to mean single focal length in the context of cameras. I suppose you mean high quality? Is there a budget?
QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Like Brad, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Prime and zoom are mutually exclusive terms. Are you looking for lenses which will be useful on both formats?

I also have the KP and K-1. For landscapes, all things being equal, I would always go for the K-1.

The DFA28-105 immediately comes to mind if your budget is limited. It would nicely compliment your DA15 on crop, and cover most of the important landscape focal lengths on the K-1.
I went to bed and woke up to see this thread got a lot of traction, goody

I must clarify myself, I apologize for using the term 'prime zooms', I have no idea how I got it in my head that stacking prime and zoom together suggested the zoom range of lenses (not restricted to just Pentax brand) that suggested were of a very high image quality.Of course I realise prime = fixed focal lengths, zooms = adjustable focal length and how putting the two together becomes an oxymoron. Honestly I thought I have seen multiple threads use the terminology of 'Prime-zooms' when discussing lens such as the D FA 15-30mm etc. I am not the least surprised I got this wrong, the older I get the worse my dyslexia becomes, I regularly have to reread my sentences I type in this forum only to see completely different words in place of the word I intended to use :/

But back to the subject matter at hand...

What I'm getting at is if making the switch from primes to zooms (it's plausible I might sell all of my current primes to make this switch further down the line, so don't count any I have currently as being something that covers 'a gap'), and you had a FF and ASP-C body, how would you go about it?

Like... it's common to see people with the 28-70 and 70-200 combo, but that does leave out the ultra wide angle. And if doing the 28-70/70-200 combo, which would go on which body? Does it make better sense to aim for a 28-105 and then try and get something like a 100-300 (does such a zoom exist)? I think you get my point.

I was excited to see the 15-30 till I realised a) it's price, b) it's size and weight (there was a nice comparison chart of the DA 15mm and another 30mm (fa?) sitting next to the 15-30 for size comparisons, you can see why the small Pentax primes are popular!) c) difficulty in using filters (I would definitely want to shoot with ND filters occasionally on my wide angle lenses).

But that felt like the only real FF wide angle zoom currently available? I'm guessing perhaps the ASP-C sensor has more choices for zooms in the wide angle range?

I'm just thinking about the future is all, should a FA 20-35 come up maybe snap that fella up etc. Or perhaps concentrate the FF on angles that aren't wide? Perhaps my line up might look like a DA 20-40, one prime 85 1.4 or 135 f2, and a 70-200 or something...

Kinda just putting it out there as to what combos you guys might start with for those camera bodies (KP and K-1) with our current choices, perhaps limiting yourself to a max of 3 lens but wanting to cover a maximum range of FL...



Hehe...
03-20-2018, 12:57 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes, there are an immense number of lenses that will work as part of a mixed FF/APS-C K-mount kit, so many that LBA is a very real risk while the size and strength of available shelf space holds out. The amazing thing is that there are very, very few standouts or must-haves in terms of performance and/or utility despite multiple cult-classics and fan-favorites. If one was to start another "what's in your bag" thread on this site, it is doubtful that many forum members are packing the same working kit. (Excepting, of course, those owning a K-1 and a two or three-lens kit based on current Pentax offerings and those who bought camera+kit lens bundles.)


Steve
The only real limit is when you have a major expenditure pending (house piering) and the drawer full of lenses starts to look like a source of funds.

.:

Last edited by monochrome; 03-20-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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