But Pentax is a business for the ones who would...

LeRolls · 04-18-2018, 07:39 PM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Sandy loves his 15-30. Also I'm super excited to hear you may do some landscape work again. You know as much as the fashion shots are great, I prefer your landscapes.

After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens.

Sandy Hancock · 04-18-2018, 08:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by LeRolls

After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens.

You could do a lot worse

**clackers** · 04-18-2018, 09:20 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by LeRolls

After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens.

Sure, but it'd be a bit like you changing to do your portraits with a KP and the DA50. I love my DA15, and it may be going to the UK and the States with me later in the year, but Pentax has bigger and better landscape lenses, and what will probably be an outstanding one on the way with the DA*11-18.

angerdan · 04-18-2018, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by mattt

It may have been posted before -
but its worth a repost to understand how the company came to be in the position that its in, and to express my frustration at the tremendous delays of lens release.
I'm not dropping $1,000 Cdn on a 30 y/o screw drive Ltd lens.
What are you using as a street lens on your K-1?

There's a own thread dedicated to the 1981 lens poster: Popular Photography Ad, 1981 - PentaxForums.com
Since the publication of this poster 37 years have passed and many lenses did come to life. How are you affected by lens delays and how much of the current lineup do you own? What's your newest lens?
Even the FA 43mm 1.9 is just 21 years old (introduced 1997), remember Canon is offering even older lenses like from 1994. And one of these did cost as much as 15-20 copies of the 645Z. By the way, 1,000 CAD for a new FA 43mm is a very good price.
How do you define street lens?
I'm using the FA 31mm when visitig museums or the old town of a city. Also the D FA 100mm as well as the F* 300mm.

deus ursus · 04-19-2018, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

Let's be honest:
They got caught out by not moving to bayonet mount in time
They got caught out by not moving to auto-focus in time
They got caught out by not moving to digital in time
They got out by not moving to FF digital in time

The astonishing thing is that they are still alive and making cameras and lens.

Ahem.

They got caught out by moving to AF too soon. The ME-F was the world's first AF camera. Didn't work too well. The AF lens bundled with it even had a built-in AF motor! Didn't work too well either.

They got caught out by moving to FF digital too soon, I'd say. Their first effort at digital was the MZ-D back in 2001. The world's first digital FF.

All IMHO of course.

**jatrax** · 04-19-2018, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by deus ursus

All IMHO of course.

While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts.

Perhaps that is illustrative of a company with great engineers and poor management or vision. But that was long ago and well past. Best I think to focus on the future which I think is bright. As long as we keep in mind what Pentax is and might be. Which is a small camera company with some excellent products and history that will never approach any sort of mass market penetration or acceptance.

**monochrome** · 04-19-2018, 07:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jatrax

While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts.

Perhaps that is illustrative of a company with great engineers and poor management or vision. But that was long ago and well past. Best I think to focus on the future which I think is bright. As long as we keep in mind what Pentax is and might be. Which is a small camera company with some excellent products and history that will never approach any sort of mass market penetration or acceptance.

Why on earth would we want Pentax to pursue mass market acceptance? Canon and Apple already exist.

deus ursus · 04-19-2018, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts.

Agree. Although I think that they realised that this concept was a dead end, and therefore didn't follow it up. Their next effort was in '87, two years after Minolta launched their phase detect AF, but so were Canon and Nikon too, so they weren't alone being 'late to the party'.

**jatrax** · 04-19-2018, 07:21 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by monochrome

Why on earth would we want Pentax to pursue mass market acceptance?

We wouldn't. That was my point. We already have Canon, Nikon, Sony......... And even if we did, they are not going to.

I do not believe Pentax needs mass market attention or the products that requires in order to be successful. Someone on this forum keeps saying Ricoh has a plan.

I think they just need to follow the plan and all will be well.

But if the expectation of a particular person is a company that is going to churn out a camera of the month and a lens of the quarter then it is easy to see why there is frustration. The development pace, though seemingly slow, is quite appropriate to the sales volume and market percentage Pentax has. Anyone desiring a faster development rate or to be seen carrying around the same camera as famous pro photographers might be advised to change to a different brand.

I am not sure that it is good from a business sense for Pentax to pay for the resources needed to develop more than 1 camera and 1 lens per year. That is a steady maintainable pace that while incredibly frustrating to current customers will over time build a top notch lens catalog and produce cameras that take advantage of the sweet spot between technical cutting edge and price.

We have seen what happens when they are too cutting edge: ME-F? We have seen what happens when they are too slow: M-42 mount? I think recently they have been hitting things very well. Bringing out top notch equipment that is just enough behind the tech curve to be very attractive price wise.

**monochrome** · 04-19-2018, 07:40 AM

^^^ Applause. The only addition might be, with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality?

**pres589** · 04-19-2018, 08:07 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

^^^ Applause. The only addition might be, with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality?

How fast is Canon delivering new bodies and lenses to market, and how fast is Leica? If Pentax could be between those two then I say sure.

**jatrax** · 04-19-2018, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality?

Hey, I'm a generalist, don't try to trip me up with little details

But honestly, probably not, spread over the three formats. Though I'm not sure how many more dedicated APS-C lenses there will be after the DA*11-18. Once that is out the APS-C catalog is mostly filled out. For FF lenses they are basically starting from scratch so that is where the work will be done over the next 5 years.

Maybe 2 cameras and two lenses per year? I'm not familiar with 645 gear so I really do not know what might be needed there. I even wonder if Pentax might not let that stagnate. With Fuji now on the ground with a good competitive product they might not see the return on moving that format forward.

SSGGeezer · 04-19-2018, 01:06 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Sure, but it'd be a bit like you changing to do your portraits with a KP and the DA50. I love my DA15, and it may be going to the UK and the States with me later in the year, but Pentax has bigger and better landscape lenses, and what will probably be an outstanding one on the way with the DA*11-18.

You travelling to the Northeast? Heck if you are headed to Boston, I would hop a train and buy you lunch.

str8talk83 · 04-19-2018, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by normhead

But just a word of advice for the future. Buy the lens you love and the camera it goes on. If you buy the camera first, without an available lens, you may get hung out to dry. Buying any camera from any manufacturer and expecting them to release the lens you want sometime in the future is poor strategy.

I agree. I think that Pentax has a unique and very good APS-C lineup. I don't feel the same way about the full-frame offerings currently (the new lenses are very good, just a small selection). I think a lot of Pentax users would be better off waiting a little bit.

normhead · 04-19-2018, 01:42 PM

A lot of Pentax users would be better ott waiting until Pentax releases the full frame lens they want before investing in Pentax FF. The 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 and 150-450 are enough for many, and covers quite a bit. But the prime guys are kind of left out to dry at the moment. So maybe we should just say prime shooters desiring "modern glass for modern sensors" should wait.

04-18-2018, 09:20 PM - 2 Likes	#48
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by LeRolls After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens. Sure, but it'd be a bit like you changing to do your portraits with a KP and the DA50. I love my DA15, and it may be going to the UK and the States with me later in the year, but Pentax has bigger and better landscape lenses, and what will probably be an outstanding one on the way with the DA11-18. Last edited by clackers; 04-18-2018 at 11:03 PM.*

04-19-2018, 02:09 AM	#50
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by jatrax Let's be honest: They got caught out by not moving to bayonet mount in time They got caught out by not moving to auto-focus in time They got caught out by not moving to digital in time They got out by not moving to FF digital in time The astonishing thing is that they are still alive and making cameras and lens. Ahem. They got caught out by moving to AF too soon. The ME-F was the world's first AF camera. Didn't work too well. The AF lens bundled with it even had a built-in AF motor! Didn't work too well either. They got caught out by moving to FF digital too soon, I'd say. Their first effort at digital was the MZ-D back in 2001. The world's first digital FF. All IMHO of course. Last edited by deus ursus; 04-19-2018 at 04:16 AM.

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04-18-2018, 07:39 PM - 5 Likes	#46
LeRolls Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: PSL, FL Posts: 4,504	Originally posted by UncleVanya Sandy loves his 15-30. Also I'm super excited to hear you may do some landscape work again. You know as much as the fashion shots are great, I prefer your landscapes. After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens.

04-18-2018, 08:14 PM - 1 Like	#47
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by LeRolls After reading this thread I may actually consider picking up a KP in the future and just slapping my DA 15 on that body for possible future landscape pursuits. Would be significantly cheaper and more portable than getting the 15-30 plus I just really like the character of that lens. You could do a lot worse

04-18-2018, 11:42 PM	#49
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by mattt It may have been posted before - but its worth a repost to understand how the company came to be in the position that its in, and to express my frustration at the tremendous delays of lens release. I'm not dropping $1,000 Cdn on a 30 y/o screw drive Ltd lens. What are you using as a street lens on your K-1? There's a own thread dedicated to the 1981 lens poster: Popular Photography Ad, 1981 - PentaxForums.com Since the publication of this poster 37 years have passed and many lenses did come to life. How are you affected by lens delays and how much of the current lineup do you own? What's your newest lens? Even the FA 43mm 1.9 is just 21 years old (introduced 1997), remember Canon is offering even older lenses like from 1994. And one of these did cost as much as 15-20 copies of the 645Z. By the way, 1,000 CAD for a new FA 43mm is a very good price. How do you define street lens? I'm using the FA 31mm when visitig museums or the old town of a city. Also the D FA 100mm as well as the F* 300mm.

04-19-2018, 06:38 AM	#51
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by deus ursus All IMHO of course. While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts. Perhaps that is illustrative of a company with great engineers and poor management or vision. But that was long ago and well past. Best I think to focus on the future which I think is bright. As long as we keep in mind what Pentax is and might be. Which is a small camera company with some excellent products and history that will never approach any sort of mass market penetration or acceptance.

04-19-2018, 07:00 AM - 1 Like	#52
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jatrax While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts. Perhaps that is illustrative of a company with great engineers and poor management or vision. But that was long ago and well past. Best I think to focus on the future which I think is bright. As long as we keep in mind what Pentax is and might be. Which is a small camera company with some excellent products and history that will never approach any sort of mass market penetration or acceptance. Why on earth would we want Pentax to pursue mass market acceptance? Canon and Apple already exist.

04-19-2018, 07:14 AM	#53
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by jatrax While both points are true in a factual way, the reality is that although being there first they never followed through and in fact canceled both of those projects. And never moved forward with developments that would have improved on the concepts. Agree. Although I think that they realised that this concept was a dead end, and therefore didn't follow it up. Their next effort was in '87, two years after Minolta launched their phase detect AF, but so were Canon and Nikon too, so they weren't alone being 'late to the party'.

04-19-2018, 07:21 AM - 3 Likes	#54
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by monochrome Why on earth would we want Pentax to pursue mass market acceptance? We wouldn't. That was my point. We already have Canon, Nikon, Sony......... And even if we did, they are not going to. I do not believe Pentax needs mass market attention or the products that requires in order to be successful. Someone on this forum keeps saying Ricoh has a plan. I think they just need to follow the plan and all will be well. But if the expectation of a particular person is a company that is going to churn out a camera of the month and a lens of the quarter then it is easy to see why there is frustration. The development pace, though seemingly slow, is quite appropriate to the sales volume and market percentage Pentax has. Anyone desiring a faster development rate or to be seen carrying around the same camera as famous pro photographers might be advised to change to a different brand. I am not sure that it is good from a business sense for Pentax to pay for the resources needed to develop more than 1 camera and 1 lens per year. That is a steady maintainable pace that while incredibly frustrating to current customers will over time build a top notch lens catalog and produce cameras that take advantage of the sweet spot between technical cutting edge and price. We have seen what happens when they are too cutting edge: ME-F? We have seen what happens when they are too slow: M-42 mount? I think recently they have been hitting things very well. Bringing out top notch equipment that is just enough behind the tech curve to be very attractive price wise.

04-19-2018, 07:40 AM	#55
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	^^^ Applause. The only addition might be, with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality?

04-19-2018, 08:07 AM - 1 Like	#56
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Originally posted by monochrome ^^^ Applause. The only addition might be, with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality? How fast is Canon delivering new bodies and lenses to market, and how fast is Leica? If Pentax could be between those two then I say sure.

04-19-2018, 08:28 AM	#57
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by monochrome with three platforms on two mounts, is one camera and one lens per year enough to sustain their product vitality? Hey, I'm a generalist, don't try to trip me up with little details But honestly, probably not, spread over the three formats. Though I'm not sure how many more dedicated APS-C lenses there will be after the DA*11-18. Once that is out the APS-C catalog is mostly filled out. For FF lenses they are basically starting from scratch so that is where the work will be done over the next 5 years. Maybe 2 cameras and two lenses per year? I'm not familiar with 645 gear so I really do not know what might be needed there. I even wonder if Pentax might not let that stagnate. With Fuji now on the ground with a good competitive product they might not see the return on moving that format forward.

04-19-2018, 01:06 PM - 1 Like	#58
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by clackers Sure, but it'd be a bit like you changing to do your portraits with a KP and the DA50. I love my DA15, and it may be going to the UK and the States with me later in the year, but Pentax has bigger and better landscape lenses, and what will probably be an outstanding one on the way with the DA*11-18. You travelling to the Northeast? Heck if you are headed to Boston, I would hop a train and buy you lunch.

04-19-2018, 01:17 PM	#59
str8talk83 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bluffton, SC Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Originally posted by normhead But just a word of advice for the future. Buy the lens you love and the camera it goes on. If you buy the camera first, without an available lens, you may get hung out to dry. Buying any camera from any manufacturer and expecting them to release the lens you want sometime in the future is poor strategy. I agree. I think that Pentax has a unique and very good APS-C lineup. I don't feel the same way about the full-frame offerings currently (the new lenses are very good, just a small selection). I think a lot of Pentax users would be better off waiting a little bit.

04-19-2018, 01:42 PM	#60
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	A lot of Pentax users would be better ott waiting until Pentax releases the full frame lens they want before investing in Pentax FF. The 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 and 150-450 are enough for many, and covers quite a bit. But the prime guys are kind of left out to dry at the moment. So maybe we should just say prime shooters desiring "modern glass for modern sensors" should wait.