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04-23-2018, 07:17 PM   #16
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I have the Fotodiox Wonderpana for my 15-30, and really like it. I bought a kit that came with several ND filters and the multi-coated CPL. Price the pieces carefully. They sell certain bundles at a much better price than buying the pieces individually. They are still expensive, but very nicely made and work well. Of note, when I researched Fotodiox CPLs, I came across different reports of problems with flare on the non-coated version and reports of good performance on the multi-coated version. Of course, it's twice the price, but I think worth it, especially if you figure the sun is apt to be low in the horizon when using it.

Do note that you have to pay attention to unevenness across the sky when you're in the 15mm end using a CPL. I find it is useful still, but depending on angles, the key is to not necessarily dial in max effect.

04-24-2018, 09:26 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
You set the ISO and aperture but you don't let the camera set the exposure.

If using a ND Grad filter you need to meter for the area of your shot that will be filtered (spot metering a few areas is best) then meter for the unfiltered area. Do this before you put a filter in place. You use the unfiltered exposure reading to set your camera shutter speed, and use the difference in exposure readings to decide on what strength grad you need. Use Manual exposure mode to set this up. Focus the scene then turn off AF. Only then put the filter in position.

If using a ND filter like the Big stopper, you first take a reading without the filter. Then focus and turn off AF. Put the filter in place and use the "cheat-sheet" or the Lee phone app, or simply use your fingers to count 10 stops from the camera reading and take your shot.

The important thing is to not let the camera meter or AF to do anything once you have a filter in place.
Peter,
That is an excellent explanation, thank you. As far as choosing filters, should I get the Big Stopper, Little Stopper, and a few Grad ND soft edge filters? Also, do I get the mount for the Tamron 15-30? I really want to just start with a basic filters, and build from that. I'm trying to keep it under $1,000. Your help is really appreciated.
Terry
04-24-2018, 11:00 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
You set the ISO and aperture but you don't let the camera set the exposure.

If using a ND Grad filter you need to meter for the area of your shot that will be filtered (spot metering a few areas is best) then meter for the unfiltered area. Do this before you put a filter in place. You use the unfiltered exposure reading to set your camera shutter speed, and use the difference in exposure readings to decide on what strength grad you need. Use Manual exposure mode to set this up. Focus the scene then turn off AF. Only then put the filter in position.

If using a ND filter like the Big stopper, you first take a reading without the filter. Then focus and turn off AF. Put the filter in place and use the "cheat-sheet" or the Lee phone app, or simply use your fingers to count 10 stops from the camera reading and take your shot.

The important thing is to not let the camera meter or AF to do anything once you have a filter in place.
QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Peter,
That is an excellent explanation, thank you. As far as choosing filters, should I get the Big Stopper, Little Stopper, and a few Grad ND soft edge filters? Also, do I get the mount for the Tamron 15-30? I really want to just start with a basic filters, and build from that. I'm trying to keep it under $1,000. Your help is really appreciated.
Terry
The interesting thing to note, in my experience, solid ND filter use and Grad ND filter use are two very different applications.

I use solid, or 2-4 stop ND filters, to blur motion, which in my case 99% of the time is water(falls). the Fotodiox sytem would be fine for that application and relatively inexpensive compared to the Lee or other square filter options.
The problem as I see it, instances in which I would use a grad ND are inherently variable, which is why a square filter system is a must. My horizon is never in the same place, which a fixed adapter ring grad ND filter would dictate.
As such, for my 24-70 i have some fixed ring 2-4 stop ND for motion blur AND a cokin z filter system for scene which require a grad ND. I could have gone strictly with the cokin system, but the square filters take alot more time and effort to set up that screw in filters. I have that luxury for sunset/sunrise, but not so much on waterfalls that often involve miles worth of hikes and several more destinations to shoot while factoring in travel time, food and waning light/weather. It's why i have basically two filter sets.

As far as shooting technique, I have to disagree with the concept of never touching the camera once exposure is obtained with grad ND. Especially in the case of sunrise/sunset, over the course of a shoot EV with change 4 or 5 stops at least over an hour, to and hour and a half. I am constantly adjusting shutter speed to keep my ETTR bias. I am also quite often bracketing for DoF and/or bracketing for motion blur. Some waves look better at 1/2 sec and some look better at 1, 2 or even 3 seconds. After 10+ years, I have some idea what looks better at what shutter speed, but not always, so I hedge my bets.

I am also occasionally fiddling with focal point and composition, because I only get one chance at THAT sunrise/sunset.

In summary, for the 2 hours I'm shooting a sunrise/sunset scene (I am ALWAYS on site and set up at least 1 hour prior), I'm a busy photog, between constantly reading my histogram and adjusting exposure to experimenting with different compositions. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I have never been able to just set the camera on manual, lock in a shutter speed and aperture at 100 iso and constantly hit my remote shutter release for an extended period of time. MAYBE 5 mins at most....
04-24-2018, 12:17 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Peter,
That is an excellent explanation, thank you. As far as choosing filters, should I get the Big Stopper, Little Stopper, and a few Grad ND soft edge filters? Also, do I get the mount for the Tamron 15-30? I really want to just start with a basic filters, and build from that. I'm trying to keep it under $1,000. Your help is really appreciated.
Terry
Have a look at the videos on the Lee site and on youtube.

The Big stopper is great for getting a smooth water effect or a dramatic sky cloud formation.

The choice of soft or hard gradation will depend on the scenes you photograph.

---------- Post added 04-24-18 at 08:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
As far as shooting technique, I have to disagree with the concept of never touching the camera once exposure is obtained with grad ND
Some very good points in your post about adjusting exposure. Just so Terry is clear my advice is to not let the camera "control" exposure during the photography session. As the scene darkens/lightens you may well have to increase/decrease the xposure but you do this by manual control and by reviewing the histogram.

04-24-2018, 02:16 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I have the Fotodiox Wonderpana for my 15-30, and really like it. I bought a kit that came with several ND filters and the multi-coated CPL. Price the pieces carefully. They sell certain bundles at a much better price than buying the pieces individually. They are still expensive, but very nicely made and work well. Of note, when I researched Fotodiox CPLs, I came across different reports of problems with flare on the non-coated version and reports of good performance on the multi-coated version. Of course, it's twice the price, but I think worth it, especially if you figure the sun is apt to be low in the horizon when using it.

Do note that you have to pay attention to unevenness across the sky when you're in the 15mm end using a CPL. I find it is useful still, but depending on angles, the key is to not necessarily dial in max effect.
Thank you. I looked at that system, and it's really nice. A lot to consider. The scary part is buying into a system of filters having not idea what I will need. I have no experience with them, nor do I know just how much I can do in post. I have just started shooting in Raw.
Terry

---------- Post added 04-24-18 at 02:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
The interesting thing to note, in my experience, solid ND filter use and Grad ND filter use are two very different applications.

I use solid, or 2-4 stop ND filters, to blur motion, which in my case 99% of the time is water(falls). the Fotodiox sytem would be fine for that application and relatively inexpensive compared to the Lee or other square filter options.
The problem as I see it, instances in which I would use a grad ND are inherently variable, which is why a square filter system is a must. My horizon is never in the same place, which a fixed adapter ring grad ND filter would dictate.
As such, for my 24-70 i have some fixed ring 2-4 stop ND for motion blur AND a cokin z filter system for scene which require a grad ND. I could have gone strictly with the cokin system, but the square filters take alot more time and effort to set up that screw in filters. I have that luxury for sunset/sunrise, but not so much on waterfalls that often involve miles worth of hikes and several more destinations to shoot while factoring in travel time, food and waning light/weather. It's why i have basically two filter sets.

As far as shooting technique, I have to disagree with the concept of never touching the camera once exposure is obtained with grad ND. Especially in the case of sunrise/sunset, over the course of a shoot EV with change 4 or 5 stops at least over an hour, to and hour and a half. I am constantly adjusting shutter speed to keep my ETTR bias. I am also quite often bracketing for DoF and/or bracketing for motion blur. Some waves look better at 1/2 sec and some look better at 1, 2 or even 3 seconds. After 10+ years, I have some idea what looks better at what shutter speed, but not always, so I hedge my bets.

I am also occasionally fiddling with focal point and composition, because I only get one chance at THAT sunrise/sunset.

In summary, for the 2 hours I'm shooting a sunrise/sunset scene (I am ALWAYS on site and set up at least 1 hour prior), I'm a busy photog, between constantly reading my histogram and adjusting exposure to experimenting with different compositions. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I have never been able to just set the camera on manual, lock in a shutter speed and aperture at 100 iso and constantly hit my remote shutter release for an extended period of time. MAYBE 5 mins at most....
Thank you very much. That gives me some idea of what to get. Very helpful. I looked at Cokin, today. Really nice. Still not sure rather to get my filter system now, or get the 24-70 to complete my lens kit. My budget is $1,000, so I might get the lens now. Then I'll have two modern zooms, the 3 FA Limited lenses, and the 100 Macro for flowers. That's a nice lens kit, in my book. I do love the idea of learning to use filters on my 15-30. That's going to be a lot of fun.
Terry

---------- Post added 04-24-18 at 03:08 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Have a look at the videos on the Lee site and on youtube.

The Big stopper is great for getting a smooth water effect or a dramatic sky cloud formation.

The choice of soft or hard gradation will depend on the scenes you photograph.

---------- Post added 04-24-18 at 08:23 PM ----------



Some very good points in your post about adjusting exposure. Just so Terry is clear my advice is to not let the camera "control" exposure during the photography session. As the scene darkens/lightens you may well have to increase/decrease the xposure but you do this by manual control and by reviewing the histogram.
Hi Peter,
I did look at Lee's website, today. I'll need to keep viewing it until I know more about what I need. Have also been looking at Youtube, which is great. I completely understand and agree that I should shoot in manual, and have full control of the camera, and can use the histogram. Pretty sure I will end up with the Lee system. But, it's so expensive that I don't want to make a mistake and get something I don't need. They sell a little book about using filters, and I'm getting it tonight. Off topic, but I saw a Youtube on comparing the 15-30 and the Nikon 14-24. Our lens did real well against the Nikon. I'm impressed. I was using a Nikon D3 when that lens came out. I bought it and thought it was something really special. Back then, Nikon had set a new benchmark for UWA lenses. That was the beginning of my love for UWA's.
Terry
04-24-2018, 03:27 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Pretty sure I will end up with the Lee system. But, it's so expensive that I don't want to make a mistake and get something I don't need
A very sensible concern Terry. You can always look on ebay and try for a second hand kit. But I view purchases of expensive photographic equipment as an asset. A depreciating one I admit, but if you feel you are not getting the use out of it you can sell it on.

Get the minimum kit to start with, and adapter, filter holder and two or three filters and go from there. I would suggest 2 and 3 stop grads with a soft gradation. A hard gradation works better if you have a hard line between the brighter area of the picture.
04-25-2018, 07:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
A very sensible concern Terry. You can always look on ebay and try for a second hand kit. But I view purchases of expensive photographic equipment as an asset. A depreciating one I admit, but if you feel you are not getting the use out of it you can sell it on.

Get the minimum kit to start with, and adapter, filter holder and two or three filters and go from there. I would suggest 2 and 3 stop grads with a soft gradation. A hard gradation works better if you have a hard line between the brighter area of the picture.
Excellent. That's exactly what I will do. How about regular ND filters? What would your recommendation be? Like your image, I would like to get one to combine with my Grad ND filters. Maybe starting out with a total of 4 filters. Perhaps, the little stopper and big stopper? Also, why are the Grad ND filters 150x170?
Terry

04-25-2018, 08:19 AM   #23
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And to throw another option into the mix, I have the Haida 150 system to use with my 15-30/K-1. It's a fair chunk cheaper than Lee, the build quality is high, and the optical quality seems good to me.
04-25-2018, 11:08 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveinSLC Quote
And to throw another option into the mix, I have the Haida 150 system to use with my 15-30/K-1. It's a fair chunk cheaper than Lee, the build quality is high, and the optical quality seems good to me.
Thank you, Steve. I will look at that before I make a purchase. But, I'm comfortable with Lee, just because of brand recognition. What filters did you start out with? I would like to have a holder, 2 ND filters, and 2 Grad ND filters. Thank you.
Terry
04-25-2018, 07:08 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Also, why are the Grad ND filters 150x170?
So you can slide them up and down in the holder depending on where you want the gradation to start.

The ND filters (stoppers) are used centrally in the holder so they are square.
04-25-2018, 08:50 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Thank you, Steve. I will look at that before I make a purchase. But, I'm comfortable with Lee, just because of brand recognition. What filters did you start out with? I would like to have a holder, 2 ND filters, and 2 Grad ND filters. Thank you.
Terry
Still saving pennies for more, but right now I have a 6 stop ND and a 2 stop soft GND.
The Haida holder will work with Lee filters(or I'd imagine any other 150 filters).
04-26-2018, 10:32 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
So you can slide them up and down in the holder depending on where you want the gradation to start.

The ND filters (stoppers) are used centrally in the holder so they are square.
Thank you, Peter.
Also, if shooting with a Grad ND only, is the technique the same as with using ND filters?
Terry
04-26-2018, 10:40 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Also, if shooting with a Grad ND only, is the technique the same as with using ND filters?
Terry
Just pop it in the holder and position the gradation on your horizon.
04-26-2018, 10:53 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Just pop it in the holder and position the gradation on your horizon.
Great. So with a Grad ND filter, I can use the camera to meter the scene, as usual?
Terry
04-26-2018, 10:55 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Great. So with a Grad ND filter, I can use the camera to meter the scene, as usual?
Terry
No, follow what I wrote in post 17.
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