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06-29-2018, 01:50 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'm sure. And as you might have guessed, I'm not a pro. Sometimes I want the best picture and am able to change lens to get it, but other times I need convenience and can't change lens. It really depends on the setting. Carrying two bodies is too inconvenient to me, not to mention expensive if talking about two FF bodies. Somehow, those FF superzooms on other mounts still sell. It may not be pros buying them. But not all FF users have to be pros. The K-1 / K-1 II are within the realm of some non-pros enthusiasts. I wonder what percentage of K-1 users are pros. Is there a poll on that ?
Very few, but we did have a poll on what lens people would like to see, and I hate to tell you, I'm not even sure superzooms got a mention among the scores of suggestions. I'm sure it's around if you look for it, Beholder3 was the OP.

Still, that's other people, you're not buying for them, you're buying for yourself and your usage scenarios.

The other weekend I shot with a K-50 on one side with a DA12-24 and a K-S2 on the other with the DA*50-135, shooting very fast at an event, it was reaction, reaction, reaction repeatedly. There's a *reason* pros do it this way.

06-29-2018, 02:39 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Very few,
You mean very few K-1 owners are pros ?

QuoteQuote:
but we did have a poll on what lens people would like to see, and I hate to tell you, I'm not even sure superzooms got a mention among the scores of suggestions. I'm sure it's around if you look for it, Beholder3 was the OP.
Are you talking about this one ? This was a prime lens survey, so of course superzooms wouldn't get a mention.

Pentax prime lens wishlist survey 2018 - PentaxForums.com

QuoteQuote:
Still, that's other people, you're not buying for them, you're buying for yourself and your usage scenarios.

The other weekend I shot with a K-50 on one side with a DA12-24 and a K-S2 on the other with the DA*50-135, shooting very fast at an event, it was reaction, reaction, reaction repeatedly. There's a *reason* pros do it this way.
And I'm not saying they shouldn't. I just haven't been in situations that require shooting that quickly. It's more of an issue of walking around outdoors and wanting to shoot one wide picture, followed by one tele picture, every other minute or so. In which case changing lens is just not practical. Using two bodies takes a lot more coordination, also. K-1 II is very nice with grip on its own, but I just can't imagine holding another camera around my neck or wrist at the same time, even a small one. I tried with K-30 and the GX85 compact once and it was impossible for me. Of course GX85 has a stupid touch screen which makes it more difficult to use one-handed, for example to change focus point.

I just prefer to carry one body with a few lenses personally, and change lens when opportunity arises, for example going to wide lens when going inside buildings. Outdoors, it really depends.
My shoulder camera bag can fit one body and 4-6 lenses, but it cannot fit two bodies. Most bags that will allow for two DSLRs are backpacks. I own one, but never use it. I prefer shoulder bag because I can always open it easily while the camera is around my neck in order to get another lens/filter/etc and don't have to necessarily stop walking while doing it.

Anyway, in many situations, it's OK to change the lens. In others, it's not. Shooting with multiple bodies is mostly not for me at this time. Maybe it will be some day, but not now. After all, for many years, I shot only in JPEG, and didn't own a single prime lens, only zooms. And I don't regret doing it that way, even though I know I might have done better IQ-wise. I also might have lost shot opportunities if I needed time to change lens (for example, pic of my dad was a candid shot, not posed).

I really don't feel like arguing anymore about this. I think there is plenty of justification for a superzoom, especially for non-pros. There are many superzooms on APS-C Pentax, just no modern one on FF. This is clearly a void in the lens lineup. I would like to see it filled. I would have paid good money for it if only somebody was selling one. You can't convince me that I don't need one any more than I convince you you don't need primes or two bodies.
06-29-2018, 04:05 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I think there is plenty of justification for a superzoom, especially for non-pros. There are many superzooms on APS-C Pentax, just no modern one on FF. This is clearly a void in the lens lineup. I would like to see it filled. I would have paid good money for it if only somebody was selling one. You can't convince me that I don't need one any more than I convince you you don't need primes or two bodies.
My observation is that the larger the sensor, the smaller the typical short-to-long zoom ratio. With FF, a ratio of 2 or 3 is common. With smaller sensors, far greater ratios are common.

I think the the problems of large-factor zoom ranges, (greater than 2 or 3, say), don't simply scale up linearly with sensor size. Perhaps the size and weight for a given zoom ratio scale up as the square or cube of the sensor size?

Imagine starting with examples of Pentax 645Z lenses then working down to the FF sensor. We see greater zoom-factors. What would be the 645Z equivalent of the D FA 150-450mm lens, even though that doesn't count as a super zoom? Presumably, very big and heavy, with huge filters.

If the answer was to compensate by using a smaller maximum aperture, eventually auto-focus would fail. (Even if anyone took small apertures seriously enough to buy them).

That in turn vastly increases the price and vastly reduces the potential market. There may be plenty of justification in the minds of users. But there are harsh realities, probably including physics, that constrain the possibilities.

I suspect Ricoh/Pentax would love to have such a lens available. But I doubt if they ever will, unless they use a totally different approach, such as a mirror lens zoom. And the last time they tried that was with a 400-600mm lens with poor image quality!
06-29-2018, 02:36 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Are you talking about this one ? This was a prime lens survey, so of course superzooms wouldn't get a mention.
My bad, thanks for pointing that out.

Instead, here's Pentax's way of thinking … there's a 70 to 300 ish zoom on the roadmap, no 'superzoom'.


https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/9352/p2109/K_Mount_Lens%2...ary%202018.pdf

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I just can't imagine holding another camera around my neck or wrist at the same time, even a small one.
But that's not what we do … see pic below. Neck straps are a bad idea IMHO for anything but a small camera.


QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I think there is plenty of justification for a superzoom, especially for non-pros.
You keep saying that, but can't even point to many pics by forum members on this site with superzooms. There really is little love for them.

But if you really can't do without a full frame superzoom, you can try to hunt one of these up, can't help you any more than that:

SMC Pentax-FA 28-200mm F3.8-5.6 AL [IF] Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

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06-29-2018, 02:59 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
....
Instead, here's Pentax's way of thinking Ö there's a 70 to 300 ish zoom on the roadmap, no 'superzoom'.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/9352/p2109/K_Mount_Lens%2...ary%202018.pdf
Some of us think that it might make a good two-some with the D FA 28-105mm lens.
Two-parts of a "virtual super-zoom"!

(For interest, do Canon or Nikon or Sony currently make reasonable-quality super-zooms for FF?)
06-29-2018, 03:11 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote

(For interest, do Canon or Nikon or Sony currently make reasonable-quality super-zooms for FF?)
Nikon makes a 28-300... I have no idea if itís any good... though for $950, I hope so...

-Eric
06-29-2018, 03:14 PM   #37
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99% of the time you dont have to change lenses every 2 shots.
Normally, urban photos or portrait are done with ultra wide or normal zoom , nature normal zoom to long one. Having the best lense for the activity we do is more critical than have a jack of all trade all the time.

When I want a jack of all trade , I use My Lumix dmc-zs100(1 inch sensor 25-250.)
06-29-2018, 03:14 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
(For interest, do Canon or Nikon or Sony currently make reasonable-quality super-zooms for FF?)
The OP listed them upthread...I have no idea if they are quality lenses or not...

The only super-zoom I would even consider using is the Sigma 50-500, and I already have the 150-500...

06-29-2018, 03:20 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
The OP listed them upthread...I have no idea if they are quality lenses or not...

The only super-zoom I would even consider using is the Sigma 50-500, and I already have the 150-500...
I just sold my Sigma 50-500, great for birding but way too heavy for day to day use.
06-29-2018, 04:23 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
99% of the time you dont have to change lenses every 2 shots.
Normally, urban photos or portrait are done with ultra wide or normal zoom , nature normal zoom to long one. Having the best lense for the activity we do is more critical than have a jack of all trade all the time.

When I want a jack of all trade , I use My Lumix dmc-zs100(1 inch sensor 25-250.)
In event or sports shooting, the subjects of interest can alternate very suddenly between being close and being far.

For instance, with a striker taking possession, you're at the longest end, as he dribbles towards you and the goal (you're beside the net, maybe), you're zooming back, you suddenly flip the camera to go portrait mode rather than landscape to fit them in at 70mm, then you're bringing up the other camera with the 24-70 so you can get the shot on goal without cutting off their feet or head.
06-29-2018, 05:07 PM   #41
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Yes for sport and events but I dont do any of this like most amateur.
06-29-2018, 05:56 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Yes for sport and events but I dont do any of this like most amateur.
Plenty of amateurs shoot parties or their kids' sports, Bob!

Others like me also shoot festivals, serious sports, street photography and wildlife/landscape.

You may miss shots or not even attempt these genres, but people do.

You're really at odds with the OP, who regards the issue as so important he wants all the focal lengths to be instantly available on the same body.

I have a lot of sympathy for him, but think the hit to IQ isn't worth it. He's in danger of getting a lot of average f8 shots.

06-29-2018, 06:50 PM   #43
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From what I have heard from Ricoh / Pentax lately, I don't see a super-zoom anywhere in the near future for the K-1. Of course I could be wrong.

Not to be mean or facetious in any way, but if the lens you want/need is available in another brand, then you should switch. Each brand has it's strengths and weaknesses, shoot what is going to make you happy. I'm with Pentax because it fulfills what I expect from a camera system.

There is and are super-zooms in the aps-c line up, which as I see it, is the only new Pentax option.
06-29-2018, 07:27 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
But that's not what we do … see pic below. Neck straps are a bad idea IMHO for anything but a small camera.
I travel to third world countries. I can't imagine wearing that gear with two cameras. I would be an instant target for thieves. Most of my shooting is done on vacations abroad, not anywhere I would want to carry two cameras. Many times I take a break from shooting and just put the lone camera back into the bag for extended period of time. I can go from place to place with my should camera bag all day long. This suggestion is just so totally unsuitable for me it's sad.

QuoteQuote:
You keep saying that, but can't even point to many pics by forum members on this site with superzooms. There really is little love for them.
Maybe I will have to dig my collection and find some more. I know have taken plenty, I have not put "rattings" on many of them, though. And not all superzooms are created equal.

QuoteQuote:
But if you really can't do without a full frame superzoom, you can try to hunt one of these up, can't help you any more than that:

SMC Pentax-FA 28-200mm F3.8-5.6 AL [IF] Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
Thanks for that. I wonder if anyone tried it on a K-1 to see how optically suitable it is on such a sensor. 28-200 is still not a great range, though. Better than 28-105 to be sure. But it's the equivalent of an 18-135 on APS-C. I had the DA 18-135 and almost never used it because the DA 18-250 / Tamron 18-250 provided so much more tele reach. If it's great optically it may still be useful. But would prefer at least 10x zoom rather than 7x.

The Sigma DL 28-300 zoom I ordered from Ebay arrived today. It turned out not to be a Pentax mount (wouldn't mount on either my K-30 or K-1 II) so it is going back. I asked seller to pay for shipping both ways since it was misrepresented.

Adorama shipped my Sigma 18-300 DC today, but looks like it won't arrive until 7/5 and I won't have it for the holiday we are planning from 4-8 (not booked yet, last minute).

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:36 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
Some of us think that it might make a good two-some with the D FA 28-105mm lens.
Two-parts of a "virtual super-zoom"!

(For interest, do Canon or Nikon or Sony currently make reasonable-quality super-zooms for FF?)

I think the D FA 28-105mm and my Sigma APO DG 70-300 make a great two some that covers all the range. Both provide great IQ . But require change of lens. I'm looking for one that covers all range.
I would likely have both of these lenses, plus the superzoom in my bag at all times . I would mount the right one depending on situation and whether the types of shot I'm doing requires frequent switching of lenses or not.
In many cases you can get closer or farther and avoid lens changes even if you have the "wrong" lens. But in plenty of situations, that's not possible.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
I just sold my Sigma 50-500, great for birding but way too heavy for day to day use.
Yeah, that's a heavy lens. And while it has a 10x magnification ratio, it's not really a "superzoom" because it doesn't adequately cover the wide end.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
99% of the time you dont have to change lenses every 2 shots.
It's far from 99% for me. Based on existing lens usage, closer to 67%. 33% of my shots were taken with superzoom for a reason.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:42 PM ----------

I can't believe people are still trying to argue whether I need a superzoom. Yes, I need a superzoom. I wouldn't have posted the thread if I didn't.

I think it's time to start a thread for people to post their best superzoom pictures.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
From what I have heard from Ricoh / Pentax lately, I don't see a super-zoom anywhere in the near future for the K-1. Of course I could be wrong.

Not to be mean or facetious in any way, but if the lens you want/need is available in another brand, then you should switch. Each brand has it's strengths and weaknesses, shoot what is going to make you happy. I'm with Pentax because it fulfills what I expect from a camera system.

There is and are super-zooms in the aps-c line up, which as I see it, is the only new Pentax option.
Yes, the APS-C superzooms do exist for Pentax. Only FF is missing. I have the Sigma 18-300 on order. Hope it will wok out. I will also try it with the 1.4x TC to see if it's worth using it in combination in FF mode or not.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
My bad, thanks for pointing that out.

Instead, here's Pentax's way of thinking Ö there's a 70 to 300 ish zoom on the roadmap, no 'superzoom'.


https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/9352/p2109/K_Mount_Lens%2...ary%202018.pdf
I'm not seeing a 70 - 300 in that page . 70-200 F4, yes. But no use for me. I'm perfectly happy with the IQ of my Sigma 70-300 DG APO that has better range. But it does not cover the wide end. Neither are superzooms.

---------- Post added 06-29-18 at 07:56 PM ----------

I started the following thread for superzoom pictures :

Superzoom lenses (18-250, 18-270, 18-300, 28-300), show us what they can do - PentaxForums.com
06-29-2018, 08:09 PM   #45
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I got one of these superzoom when I bought my first Pentax and ...
Good luck, I am sure you will find one and I understand your need.

---------- Post added 29th Jun 2018 at 23:16 ----------

Here a Sigma 28-300 in British Columbia,
Auto Focus Lenses for Pentax | Cameras & Camcorders | Vernon | Kijiji
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