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07-03-2018, 10:45 AM   #46
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Summarizing Macro Capabilities at Optimum Cost Effectiveness

From everything I've read, I'm looking at the following options for optimal cost effectiveness. What do you all think? I may do just do option 1 Raynox (great photos by WPRESTO) or options 2 & 3 together. Your thoughts?
  1. Raynox Kit:
  2. Reverse Mount
  3. Filter Kit (like Vivitar)


07-03-2018, 11:11 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
True - but as our Pentax overlords have explained before some lenses were designed to not be particularly flat in perspective to enhance their real world use in a 3d world. I'm very happy with the F - FA - DFA lenses and have no experience with problems with older macro lenses but I have no knowledge of the older lenses used outside their intended purpose. (Should be easy to find examples on Flickr, I've just not looked)
intended purpose ???


I use my D FA 100mm F2.8 as a short telephoto as well as a macro lens


as far as I know that is its intended purpose


as opposed to it just being a short telephoto or a macro lens
07-03-2018, 12:05 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
intended purpose ???


I use my D FA 100mm F2.8 as a short telephoto as well as a macro lens


as far as I know that is its intended purpose


as opposed to it just being a short telephoto or a macro lens
Simmer down! LOL. I said I hadn't seen problems. I have read people talking about clinical shots from macro lenses and the FA 77 and FA 43 and FA 31 talk about how they are not chart optimized to be better at 3d rendering. So I'm asking if this is a real issue. I never see it on the DFA and never saw it on the F 100 macro.
07-03-2018, 12:18 PM   #49
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I will try to capture a few comparison shots between my DA50-200 with a couple different cheap filters on the front and then take similar shots with my Kino/Ricoh/etc 105 f2.8 1:1 macro using my crop digital camera and share results here. Should be by this time tomorrow.

07-03-2018, 12:19 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote
From everything I've read, I'm looking at the following options for optimal cost effectiveness. What do you all think? I may do just do option 1 Raynox (great photos by WPRESTO) or options 2 & 3 together. Your thoughts?
  1. Raynox Kit:
  2. Reverse Mount
  3. Filter Kit (like Vivitar)
Consider the Raynox, but remember that it is never better than the lens it is mounted on. Try reversing, but only after you get a lens with an aperture ring. Just say no to the Vivitar auxiliary close-up set. Twelve dollars as your entry ticket will result in twelve dollars value as a tool. Consider a 90mm or longer 1:1 macro lens as your primary option lens option.

This will not be inexpensive, though compared to paying someone else to do your product photos...


Steve
07-03-2018, 12:24 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote
From everything I've read, I'm looking at the following options for optimal cost effectiveness. What do you all think? I may do just do option 1 Raynox (great photos by WPRESTO) or options 2 & 3 together. Your thoughts?
  1. Raynox Kit:
  2. Reverse Mount
  3. Filter Kit (like Vivitar)
Ordinary single-element close-up filters, usually in sets of three such as the Vivitar set, are really not satisfactory. The Raynox, which are achromatic doublets, give far better IQ. Also mentioned by someone are achromatic close-up filters made by Nikon (I think these are out of production but are commonly available on EBAY) and Canon (quite a range available called 500D and 250D - or maybe the letter comes before the number - and available in a variety of filter thread sizes) will easily outperform a set like the Vivitar and are well-worth the extra price. But a minor caution, the Nikon & Canon units work best on short to medium telephoto lenses.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 07-03-2018 at 01:12 PM.
07-03-2018, 12:38 PM   #52
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I want to mention that I don't think the Vivitar lenses are all that great. They're good for the money and they cost me $13 for a set of four. Do that math on your own and let the results help you decide what you're good with, as with most anything.
07-03-2018, 01:04 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Ordinary single-element close-up filters, usually in sets of three such as the Vivitar set, are really not satisfactory. The Raynox, which are achromatic doublets, give far better IQ. Also mentioned by someone are achromatic close-up filters made by Nikon (I think there are out of production but are commonly available on EBAY) and Canon (quite a range available called 500D and 250D - or maybe the letter comes before the number - and available in a variety of filter thread sizes) will easily outperform a set like the Vivitar and are well-worth the extra price. But a minor caution, the Nikon & Canon units work best on short to medium telephoto lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Raynox Kit:
Reverse Mount
Thanks so much for all your advice everyone! I went with the 2 options above. I'll see which works better.

07-03-2018, 03:01 PM - 1 Like   #54
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I've written a bit about my own experience and technique with the reversed 18-55 (amongst other reversed optics) here: Reverse Lens Technique for Macro Photography - Photography Life

Many of my recent contributions to the Show me your insects and Spiders threads have used that very lens. The zoom lens gives you variable magnification without swapping lenses or extension tubes. I find it very flexible.

Another solution to aperture control on reversed lenses that do not have aperture rings would be to use an adapter like this. It would attach to the exposed mount of the reversed lens. Apparently it's easy to deglass, which is what you'd want to do. This would give more control and repeatability than the "wedge it open" solution option outlined in the article linked above.

For a real feast of macro hints, tips and techniques try:

CHEAP MACRO -- Buying or exploiting a lens for ultraclose work

and,

Extreme Macro Photography
07-03-2018, 03:34 PM - 1 Like   #55
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extension tubes are it and they work with a lot of different lenses giving you lots of different macro effects. Wide angle lenses on extension tubes are particularly tasty, although you'll need a very calm bug if your shooting insects. Here's a shot with a cheap Mir 1b 37mm an extension tube and a very unreactive bug.
07-03-2018, 05:13 PM   #56
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A caution on extension tubes. They are best used on single focal length lenses - - BECAUSE - - 10mm of extension will bring the point of focus very close if used behind a 30mm lens, but not nearly so close if used behind a 100mm lens. In other words, the longer the FL of the lens, the farther away the focus point using the same extension tube. If used on a zoom lens, that means if you get your subject into focus using the 18mm zoom position, then zoom to say 50mm, the subject will go wildly out of focus and you may have to move your entire camera + lens back to re-achieve focus, because the focusing ring on the lens will not provide sufficient adjustment.


For single focal length lenses, either extension tubes or achromatic close-up filters will work
For zoom lenses, use achromatic close-up filters but not extension tubes.
07-03-2018, 06:37 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
Jewelry doesn't tend to flee so you don't need the 100mm reach. In my opinion a M 1:4 50mm Macro lens (1:2 "magnification") in combination with a set of extension tubes (for more magnification) would be a suitable and cheapish combination. But I have successfully used a Pentax-A 1:1.7 50mm lens and also a Cosina Cosinon-T 3.5/135 lens with extension tubes for macro work, so basically every decent prime lens (preferably with aperture ring) in combination with extension tubes or a reverse ring will be useable for your intended purpose
What the longer lens gives you is greater working distance and a narrower angle of view. This makes it easier to control backgrounds and lighting. Small product photography can certainly be done with a 50mm lens, but it can be done much more comfortably with a longer one.
This is one of the areas I did a lot of work in when I was shooting professionally. I spent quite some time providing photographic services to a local jewelry manufacturer. Things like necklaces can be shot with a shorter lens, but smaller items such as earrings are going to present quite a challenge if the photographer wants to fill the frame. The 50mm lens on an APS-C camera will be workable for some stuff, a lens in the 90-100mm range will be workable for quite a bit more. For the larger product such as necklaces, a zoom lens that covers the range from 35-60mm will be adequate.
07-03-2018, 08:15 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Simmer down! LOL. I said I hadn't seen problems. I have read people talking about clinical shots from macro lenses and the FA 77 and FA 43 and FA 31 talk about how they are not chart optimized to be better at 3d rendering. So I'm asking if this is a real issue. I never see it on the DFA and never saw it on the F 100 macro.
Misunderstood

You know how confused I can be
07-03-2018, 09:07 PM   #59
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Here are couple of quick shots taken at either end of the 18-55's range of magnification when reversed on my K-S2, using a mm ruler.

At 55mm (approx. 0.83 X):



At 18mm (approx. 3.9 X):



Here are some shots taken in "real life" with this. Working distance is tight, about 45mm, so certainly not ideal for all applications.
07-03-2018, 09:17 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
Misunderstood

You know how confused I can be
that's why I LOL'd you. I figured it was not a serious chiding I was getting.
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