Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version 36 Likes Search this Thread
07-03-2018, 09:26 PM - 1 Like   #61
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 42,007

Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here.


QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
What the longer lens gives you is greater working distance and a narrower angle of view.
This is where I post the "way too little" working distance photo again. Sometimes it takes two or more repetitions to sink in that no, this does not work for tabletop product photography.

Best Low Cost Macro Lens for Pentax K - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com


Steve

07-04-2018, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #62
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,981
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is where I post the "way too little" working distance photo again. Sometimes it takes two or more repetitions to sink in that no, this does not work for tabletop product photography.

Best Low Cost Macro Lens for Pentax K - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com
That’s funny. When shooting small product, I’ve found that a working distance for front of lens to subject of 6-8 inches is about as short as I want, longer is better most of the time.
Quite often the close up filter solution on a short lens kills working distance, and on a zoom lens kills sharpness or adds in all sorts of aberrations.
07-04-2018, 10:56 AM   #63
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
Here are couple of quick shots taken at either end of the 18-55's range of magnification when reversed on my K-S2, using a mm ruler.

At 55mm (approx. 0.83 X):



At 18mm (approx. 3.9 X):



Here are some shots taken in "real life" with this. Working distance is tight, about 45mm, so certainly not ideal for all applications.
QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
Here are couple of quick shots taken at either end of the 18-55's range of magnification when reversed on my K-S2, using a mm ruler.
Thanks Thagomizer! That looks great. I think that will be perfect for photo graphing jewelry close up including the tiny copyright stamps. So I'm happy I get a Pentax K reverse mount, which I will use with my 18-55mm kit lense. But just to be on the safe side, I also ordered the Raynox kit. So I'll be able to compare the two.

I have a feeling I will want to start doing some close ups of insects and nature like so many do with macros...I've always had an affinity for close up shots (with limited capabilities) of normal lenses.

---------- Post added 07-04-18 at 11:01 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is where I post the "way too little" working distance photo again. Sometimes it takes two or more repetitions to sink in that no, this does not work for tabletop product photography.

Best Low Cost Macro Lens for Pentax K - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com


Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is where I post the "way too little" working distance photo again. Sometimes it takes two or more repetitions to sink in that no, this does not work for tabletop product photography.

Best Low Cost Macro Lens for Pentax K - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com


Steve
Oh, well... now I'm confused. I would have thought that for product closeup shots, close distance would work well since I don't have to worry about scaring something away like an insect and can get pretty close. Steve - are you saying that because the product will be in the back of the tabletop tent, it will prevent me from getting close enough with the reverse mounted lens solution? If so, then as a solution - can't I either move the product forward (closer to me) or just use the Raynox kit lens? Or do you think I will have to plunk down more money to get a dedicated macro lens as you seem to be recommending?

Thanks again for all your sagacity and advice!
07-04-2018, 11:05 AM   #64
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 28,401
QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote
Thanks Thagomizer! That looks great. I think that will be perfect for photo graphing jewelry close up including the tiny copyright stamps. So I'm happy I get a Pentax K reverse mount, which I will use with my 18-55mm kit lense. But just to be on the safe side, I also ordered the Raynox kit. So I'll be able to compare the two.

I have a feeling I will want to start doing some close ups of insects and nature like so many do with macros...I've always had an affinity for close up shots (with limited capabilities) of normal lenses.

---------- Post added 07-04-18 at 11:01 AM ----------




Oh, well... now I'm confused. I would have thought that for product closeup shots, close distance would work well since I don't have to worry about scaring something away like an insect and can get pretty close. Steve - are you saying that because the product will be in the back of the tabletop tent, it will prevent me from getting close enough with the reverse mounted lens solution? If so, then as a solution - can't I either move the product forward (closer to me) or just use the Raynox kit lens? Or do you think I will have to plunk down more money to get a dedicated macro lens as you seem to be recommending?

Thanks again for all your sagacity and advice!
I think you will be fine. Time will tell soon.

07-04-2018, 11:13 AM   #65
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,332
I will echo the suggestion of a dedicated 1:1 macro lens in the 100mm range. Buy used and you should be able to resell for little loss if you decide you don't like it. Especially given the lighting required for jewelry (or any shiny thing), the extra working distance compared to the other options will be good for your sanity.
07-04-2018, 12:25 PM - 1 Like   #66
Pentaxian
Thagomizer's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 2,068
QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote
Oh, well... now I'm confused. I would have thought that for product closeup shots, close distance would work well since I don't have to worry about scaring something away like an insect and can get pretty close. Steve - are you saying that because the product will be in the back of the tabletop tent, it will prevent me from getting close enough with the reverse mounted lens solution? If so, then as a solution - can't I either move the product forward (closer to me) or just use the Raynox kit lens? Or do you think I will have to plunk down more money to get a dedicated macro lens as you seem to be recommending?

Thanks again for all your sagacity and advice!
The best thing to do is to start experimenting with what you've got to see what works and what doesn't. It's also going to depend on how you want things to appear in the photos. A record shot for insurance, for example will have different requirements than an advertising shot. Same product, different looks, different approaches. Different focal lengths of macro lens will change perspective and the amount of background behind your subject. Just as focal length changes perspective in "normal" photography, the same holds true with macro. Shooting larger objects like necklaces close-up with a shorter focal length macro lens will introduce a certain degree of distortion, making those sections of the necklace closer to the camera appear proportionately bigger than parts that are farther away. Shooting with a longer focal length lens from a greater distance will have less of this sort of perspective effect. With experience, you'll figure out what works best for each subject you shoot. You want to make sure that your shots are faithful representations of the items in question; the average non-photographer might not have an awareness or appreciation of "creative distortion."

Lighting and staging are going to be very important to what you're doing. Two books you might find useful are Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting and Still life and special effects photography : a guide to professional lighting techniques

Last edited by Thagomizer; 07-04-2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason: added links to references
07-04-2018, 02:05 PM   #67
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
The best thing to do is to start experimenting with what you've got to see what works and what doesn't. It's also going to depend on how you want things to appear in the photos. A record shot for insurance, for example will have different requirements than an advertising shot. Same product, different looks, different approaches. Different focal lengths of macro lens will change perspective and the amount of background behind your subject. Just as focal length changes perspective in "normal" photography, the same holds true with macro. Shooting larger objects like necklaces close-up with a shorter focal length macro lens will introduce a certain degree of distortion, making those sections of the necklace closer to the camera appear proportionately bigger than parts that are farther away. Shooting with a longer focal length lens from a greater distance will have less of this sort of perspective effect. With experience, you'll figure out what works best for each subject you shoot. You want to make sure that your shots are faithful representations of the items in question; the average non-photographer might not have an awareness or appreciation of "creative distortion."

Lighting and staging are going to be very important to what you're doing. Two books you might find useful are Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting and Still life and special effects photography : a guide to professional lighting techniques
Thanks Thagomizer. Much appreciate the feedback and guidance. I will let you know how things go.

I will also buy one of these lighting books - prob the still life one.

07-04-2018, 04:00 PM - 2 Likes   #68
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX
Photos: Albums
Posts: 521
Add another vote for the 100mm 3.5 Macro. I picked up a Vivitar branded one and Lightroom sees it as a Pentax FA-100mm 3.5 Macro. So the Pentax/Cosina/Vivitar et al.... are the same lens. Mine did not have the matched Diopter but at 2:1 it works fine. Mine cost about $75.00 at a local camera store.

Here are some images from it:








That said I'm looking to upgrade to the newe D FA 100 2.8 WR macro lens as I find myself shooting stuff at the water a lot more. I'll put it on the marketplace when I get the new lens.
07-04-2018, 05:08 PM - 1 Like   #69
Pentaxian
swanlefitte's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,068
With either the reversed lens or the raynox you will exceed the next limiting factors. Lint and fingerprints. They show up bright and distracting on jewelry. Clean with gloves dust free twice. Take first picture and look at it zoomed in. Then clean again. I have thought i had this clean only to find out after my set up was taken down that i missed lint.
07-04-2018, 07:26 PM   #70
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,981
QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote


Oh, well... now I'm confused. I would have thought that for product closeup shots, close distance would work well since I don't have to worry about scaring something away like an insect and can get pretty close. Steve - are you saying that because the product will be in the back of the tabletop tent, it will prevent me from getting close enough with the reverse mounted lens solution? If so, then as a solution - can't I either move the product forward (closer to me) or just use the Raynox kit lens? Or do you think I will have to plunk down more money to get a dedicated macro lens as you seem to be recommending?

Thanks again for all your sagacity and advice!
At some point, if you are serious about shooting macro, you will want a dedicated macro lens.

This was shot on the K1 with the FA* 200/4 macro, the brooch is about 2x3 inches. My working distance was a nice comfortable 20 or so inches.
This lens is out of reach for most people since it is about as rare as hens teeth, but with a 100mm lens I would still have had a working distance of about a foot. Working distance is important because it allows you to light the subject without having to deal with shadows from the equipment. A comfortable working distance allows you to manipulate the subject while looking through the viewfinder or at the rear screen.
This type of work is a great excuse to have a camera that has a tethering option.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 07-04-2018 at 07:34 PM.
07-04-2018, 08:25 PM   #71
Pentaxian
swanlefitte's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,068
I have a $8000 ring worth the ruby. wheatfield, you have everything in focus and detail is great but the jewels are just jewels. Show why I would want them. If jewels don;t sparkle and don;t have deep color why get them? sorry they look bland.
07-04-2018, 09:29 PM   #72
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 28,401
Tossing a 2x convertor onto the 50mm or 100mm will help with that working distance. The same working distance as before with X times the size or that much more working distance by moving back to the same reproduction ratio as before but from a farther position. This will not work on the reversing lens example, but it does help with the short 50mm macro lenses when you need more magnification or distance.
07-05-2018, 04:00 AM - 2 Likes   #73
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,981
QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
I have a $8000 ring worth the ruby. wheatfield, you have everything in focus and detail is great but the jewels are just jewels. Show why I would want them. If jewels don;t sparkle and don;t have deep color why get them? sorry they look bland.
The purpose of that image was a record shot for the insurance company, not to try to market it. For that type of shot you want just the facts. Were I lighting it to advertise, I would have chosen a very different lighting strategy.
07-05-2018, 08:04 AM   #74
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Shown below:
1) the Raynox macro explorer kit components: quick attach device, 1.5X and 2.5X achromatic lenses (1.5 reduces focus distance front of lens to subject to 8 inches, 2.5X to 4 inches, of any lens regardless of focal length when the lens is set to infinity)
2) assembled system (1.5X unit) mounted on my old 200mm f4 SMCA.
3) Image taken with the rig above
4) Image taken with the 2.5X Raynox mounted on a Sigma 17~70mm has severe vignetting
5) BUT, if you crop away the vignetting, IQ is very good;
6) image taken with a 1.5X Raynox mounted on a Sigma 18~250mm zoom, lens @ 250mm and infinity. IQ is not as good as with preceding lenses, but unexpectedly good from such a long-range zoom out at its maximum FL, which is where all such lenses have their poorest performance.

MINIMAL PP done on these images, primarily small adjustments to exposure. All of them could therefore be improved by applying some sharpening.
What do you think the focal distance will be using the Raynox 250 on top of the 18-55mm kit lens? What is the furthest distance one can focus at for good quality shots?
07-05-2018, 08:27 AM   #75
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,332
QuoteOriginally posted by GoldMountain Quote
What do you think the focal distance will be using the Raynox 250 on top of the 18-55mm kit lens? What is the furthest distance one can focus at for good quality shots?
Raynox 250 + the first version of the 18-55mm kit lens:

At 55mm & minimum focus distance: working distance ~ 6cm, magnification ~0.75X

At 55mm & infinity focus: working distance ~ 12cm, magnification ~0.4X

It vignettes terribly at 18mm with the Raynox. I can't speak for quality when paired with the kit lens, I mostly use the Raynox 250 with my macro for more magnification and the results are pretty great.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
50mm, close, close up lens, cost, cost macro lens, distance, fa, focus, k-mount, kit, kx, lens, lens for pentax, macro, magnification, pentax, pentax fa 50mm, pentax lens, photo, post, product, shot, shots, slr lens, steve

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello From Boston... Tips on a low cost Portrait or Telephoto lens for Full Frame landofcourtness Welcomes and Introductions 10 07-25-2017 08:35 PM
Which is BEST Low-Cost Pentax DSLR UNDER $300 Used? PentaxForums-User Pentax DSLR Discussion 51 04-10-2010 07:54 PM
low cost macro photography marcusyoung Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 9 12-08-2009 01:34 PM
Low cost macro Haakan Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 08-23-2008 06:21 PM
Da Lens Prices ! Low Low Low 247nino Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 41 04-14-2008 11:55 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:25 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top