M 20 f4; prices? Alternatives?

**jatrax** · 07-10-2018, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by pres589

And it might shake loose some vintage glass that people otherwise don't want to give up

That is most likely true. An example would be the FA*28-70 f/2.8. The price on that ranged around $1,000 to $1,200 for years and years. After the DFA 24-70 came out it dropped dramatically. Price seems to be high $400 to $500 now.

murrelet · 07-10-2018, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Lately I've been interested in the 20mm M-series pancake prime. Looking at the bay of e, current auctions for examples of this lens boarder on crazy to me. What "should" I expect to pay for a good copy of this lens? Are there good alternatives from other brands that could be converted (ala Leitax) and still provide good image quality with a similarly sized lens? I know of the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 that is almost as small but they seem pretty rare and more costly yet.

For what it's worth, I paid $200 for my M 20mm F4 earlier this year on "the bay of e". I think I just got lucky. I haven't used it much since I've been shooting more 120 film lately. Here's a recent sample. I was going for shallow DOF, probably F4.

**Mikesul** · 07-10-2018, 10:13 AM

What are these crazy high prices you are seeing for the M20? I like mine but if a fortune is to be had... Just kidding.

**pres589** · 07-10-2018, 11:18 AM

Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky.

Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that.

That, to me, is crazy pricing.

murrelet · 07-10-2018, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by pres589

Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky.

Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that.

That, to me, is crazy pricing.

And that $232 one has fungus.

There's one just listed on the Film Photo Gear Facebook group for $500. New, old stock.

**pres589** · 07-10-2018, 12:39 PM

Yeah. Basically this has somehow become, at least asking priced at online auction sites, a $450 and up lens in good condition. I can see myself ending up with the Nikkor option when this is all said and done.

**TwoUptons** · 07-10-2018, 01:06 PM

I gave up for the moment on looking for a wide prime and bought a Tokina 20-35 zoom.

It does autofocus and has an aperture ring, and while I wouldn’t call it compact, it does cover the whole wide world, in a manner of speaking...

I liked it so much that when it was knocked out of my hand by an over-sugared seven year old, I bought another one...

The Pentax 24-35 is a compact zoom option, and I love it on my MX, even if it isn’t always wide enough...

-Eric

**pres589** · 07-10-2018, 01:34 PM - **1 Like**

If I go to a zoom I'm dropping a lens out of the kit due to space constraints. I also feel better about a prime like the M 20 f4 dealing with the vibrations that a motorcycle trip would create vs. a zoom lens.

If these things are so costly to replace I may end up going with the cheaper Nikon just due to what I'll be doing with it and where I'll be taking it. Fewer tears if I drop it in a river or run over it or some other dumb thing that can happen on long trips.

**gofour3** · 07-17-2018, 09:17 AM

The K18/3.5, K20/4 or the A20/2.8 would be my choice over the M20/4 on a MF film camera.

The K18/3.5 also has built-in filters for B+W & colour film.

Phil.

**pres589** · 07-17-2018, 09:34 AM - **1 Like**

I think the best lens out of all of those is probably the K 20 f4 but each has their own caveats. The issue is space; while I agree that the M 20 has some issues, space (and weight, to a degree) is a real challenge. I need to find space for three primes and a mini-tripod in a kit that will be carried on a motorcycle journey. Here's a picture of me on my current motorcycle on the last big trip I made;

Space is at such a premium that I cannot justify "big" lenses like the K 18 3.5 just can't buy its way onto the trip. Capturing night skies and other scenes, to me, calls for something wider than a 24 on film, so here I am looking for options. The M 20 f4, an M 35 f2.8, and M 85 f2 are the leading options. If I was okay with a lens that took up more space, the Tamron 17 SP I already have would be in there, and I would try to find a way to get a protective filter wedged onto the thing without the use of a hood.

**Mikesul** · 07-17-2018, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by pres589

Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky.

Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that.

That, to me, is crazy pricing.

Prices are only crazy if no one will pay them. I have one of these lenses and it is a gem. Lack of AF is no issue at all at the FL and it is tiny. So much nicer to carry than any of the zooms. I think it should be worth at least $350. Judging by the prices you quote it should be $450. I do not intend to find out anytime soon. The days of Pentax being a bargain brand are over.

**UncleVanya** · 08-05-2018, 09:56 AM

Carl Zeiss Jena 20mm f4 M42 lens - PentaxForums.com

Put a cheap m42 adapter with the spring removed and maybe do a diy cla.

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07-10-2018, 07:37 AM	#46
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by pres589 And it might shake loose some vintage glass that people otherwise don't want to give up That is most likely true. An example would be the FA*28-70 f/2.8. The price on that ranged around $1,000 to $1,200 for years and years. After the DFA 24-70 came out it dropped dramatically. Price seems to be high $400 to $500 now.

07-10-2018, 09:20 AM	#47
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	Originally posted by pres589 Lately I've been interested in the 20mm M-series pancake prime. Looking at the bay of e, current auctions for examples of this lens boarder on crazy to me. What "should" I expect to pay for a good copy of this lens? Are there good alternatives from other brands that could be converted (ala Leitax) and still provide good image quality with a similarly sized lens? I know of the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 that is almost as small but they seem pretty rare and more costly yet. For what it's worth, I paid $200 for my M 20mm F4 earlier this year on "the bay of e". I think I just got lucky. I haven't used it much since I've been shooting more 120 film lately. Here's a recent sample. I was going for shallow DOF, probably F4.

07-10-2018, 10:13 AM	#48
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	What are these crazy high prices you are seeing for the M20? I like mine but if a fortune is to be had... Just kidding.

07-10-2018, 11:18 AM	#49
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529 Original Poster	Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky. Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that. That, to me, is crazy pricing.

07-10-2018, 12:32 PM	#50
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	Originally posted by pres589 Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky. Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that. That, to me, is crazy pricing. And that $232 one has fungus. There's one just listed on the Film Photo Gear Facebook group for $500. New, old stock.

07-10-2018, 12:39 PM	#51
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529 Original Poster	Yeah. Basically this has somehow become, at least asking priced at online auction sites, a $450 and up lens in good condition. I can see myself ending up with the Nikkor option when this is all said and done.

07-10-2018, 01:06 PM	#52
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,213	I gave up for the moment on looking for a wide prime and bought a Tokina 20-35 zoom. It does autofocus and has an aperture ring, and while I wouldn’t call it compact, it does cover the whole wide world, in a manner of speaking... I liked it so much that when it was knocked out of my hand by an over-sugared seven year old, I bought another one... The Pentax 24-35 is a compact zoom option, and I love it on my MX, even if it isn’t always wide enough... -Eric

07-10-2018, 01:34 PM - 1 Like	#53
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529 Original Poster	If I go to a zoom I'm dropping a lens out of the kit due to space constraints. I also feel better about a prime like the M 20 f4 dealing with the vibrations that a motorcycle trip would create vs. a zoom lens. If these things are so costly to replace I may end up going with the cheaper Nikon just due to what I'll be doing with it and where I'll be taking it. Fewer tears if I drop it in a river or run over it or some other dumb thing that can happen on long trips.

07-17-2018, 09:17 AM	#54
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,090	The K18/3.5, K20/4 or the A20/2.8 would be my choice over the M20/4 on a MF film camera. The K18/3.5 also has built-in filters for B+W & colour film. Phil.

07-17-2018, 09:34 AM - 1 Like	#55
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529 Original Poster	I think the best lens out of all of those is probably the K 20 f4 but each has their own caveats. The issue is space; while I agree that the M 20 has some issues, space (and weight, to a degree) is a real challenge. I need to find space for three primes and a mini-tripod in a kit that will be carried on a motorcycle journey. Here's a picture of me on my current motorcycle on the last big trip I made; Space is at such a premium that I cannot justify "big" lenses like the K 18 3.5 just can't buy its way onto the trip. Capturing night skies and other scenes, to me, calls for something wider than a 24 on film, so here I am looking for options. The M 20 f4, an M 35 f2.8, and M 85 f2 are the leading options. If I was okay with a lens that took up more space, the Tamron 17 SP I already have would be in there, and I would try to find a way to get a protective filter wedged onto the thing without the use of a hood.

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07-17-2018, 12:41 PM	#56
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by pres589 Mikesul, right now on ebay, the cheapest M 40 f4 I'm seeing is $232 shipped (all prices in USD). That's a bit higher than I was expecting before I started this search. Then it gets kind of wonky. Second cheapest is $435. Next one is as well. Then $450. Fifth cheapest is $500. It just keeps going up after that. That, to me, is crazy pricing. Prices are only crazy if no one will pay them. I have one of these lenses and it is a gem. Lack of AF is no issue at all at the FL and it is tiny. So much nicer to carry than any of the zooms. I think it should be worth at least $350. Judging by the prices you quote it should be $450. I do not intend to find out anytime soon. The days of Pentax being a bargain brand are over.

08-05-2018, 09:56 AM	#57
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,400	Carl Zeiss Jena 20mm f4 M42 lens - PentaxForums.com Put a cheap m42 adapter with the spring removed and maybe do a diy cla.