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07-21-2018, 03:35 AM - 3 Likes   #1
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Hi. Found a "new feature" on the Pentax f4.5 500mm M42

Hello,

This lens belongs to my father, and I took quite a few test shots, very impressed for it's age (1971-75) according to the takurmology website, and after taking some cricket photos I found a new feature that I haven't seen mentioned on the review of this lens on this site.

Basically there is a fourth knurled ring around the lens (Aperture, Focus, Dismount to put filters in, This Feature). This fourth ring can be untightened and in conjunction with the filter dismount ring, the camera can be aligned to landscape, the fourth ring is tightened slightly and then the camera can be move at 90º click stopped angles from landscape to portrait. It's quite a remarkable feature because normally you'd need to rotate the lens entirely. I have never seen this on any pro telephoto or otherwise (and I did have access to them).

I've put a youtube video
up about it (it's about five minutes in), along with a comprehensive review of the lens and how it's now relevant to mirrorless or live view cameras today. I admit it, 20 years ago when using film, I was not that impressed when my father had bought this because of the dim viewfinder, but now with LCD's that brighten when stopped down it's fantastic, and after stopping it down 1 1/2 stops it is just amazingly sharp and good for any lens, let alone one that it 40+ years old, and in my view way superior to a super zoom with teleconverter which would be still shooting wide open.

I thought some member may be interested in then lens and I've linked back to these forums for the helpful information I've got here on the lens specification, (I'm a wee bit critical of someone that would post that the lens is not sharp without example images), and there are example photos from cricket photography Pentax Super Multi-coated Takumar 500mm f4.5 M42 screwfit., I had to stop my brief 5 year career as a photojournalist because of a spinal injury, so I could never keep this, but I've literally gone from being cynical when my father bought this, to a total convert.

Thank you

Philip.


Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-21-2018 at 04:43 AM.
07-21-2018, 04:50 AM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
Found a "new feature" on the Pentax f4.5 500mm M42
Welcome to the forum.

I have the K series version, (SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5) my "HM The Queen", not the Takumar like yours, but it certainly doesn't have that additional "secret" and would be very useful feature on it.
07-21-2018, 06:23 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Welcome to the forum.

I have the K series version, (SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5) my "HM The Queen", not the Takumar like yours, but it certainly doesn't have that additional "secret" and would be very useful feature on it.
I must admit that it is brilliant, but found totally by accident as I was trying to align the M42 adaptor. It's certainly deliberate as if you watch the video then you can hear the click stops at 90º. I wouldn't have thought it was possible on the K mount with the little lever to flick the aperture open and closed meaning it would be tricky to spin the camera around, but with no connections this was a very elegant solution to a problem as it's a big lens to turn.

Does the K-mount version have any ability to put filters in the rear?

I always rated Pentax lenses, and especially the flare control, it's always been a shame for me personally that during my brief pro career I had to change because you couldn't rent a replacement 35mm set up (though you could get 6x7 and 645 at a stretch). I had an LX for a short time (after an ME Super), and any M or A series lens I would gladly use without a hood, and here's a sinful comment, I printed 100's of photos a day when I started, I switched to Leica M6's and a Nikon FM2n, and though the Leica had a different harder contrast and yet by some magic retained more highlight and shadow details than any SLR, I would never ever have used a Leica lens (35mm pre aspherical, I have no experience of the later lenses) without a lens hood, sun from the side and the Leica lost that contrast with no hood, whereas unhooded Pentax lens performed consistently.

Oh wow, I see you have "Lady Luck" a 135mm f1.8, any pictures ? when I started that was one of my dream lenses.
07-21-2018, 06:48 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Welcome to the forum.

I have the K series version, (SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5) my "HM The Queen", not the Takumar like yours, but it certainly doesn't have that additional "secret" and would be very useful feature on it.
Interesting you don't have it. I have what I believe is the earliest variant of this lens, a non SMC Takumar, and it does have the 90 rotation feature.

Does your lens have the rear sight? I have a spot for one, but since it's not there, I have to assume someone removed it. I still have the front bead.

Does anyone have an original manual? I've always wondered if there was an official method to the alignment of the bayonet mount used to open it up for inserting filters. It seems if you line the white dot on the tightening ring with a lug on the bayonet, it will fit together with the back half oriented with the click stops on the 90 rotation at the right angle so the camera is square to the horizon. Just not sure if that is by design or luck.

07-21-2018, 06:53 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
I must admit that it is brilliant, but found totally by accident as I was trying to align the M42 adaptor. It's certainly deliberate as if you watch the video then you can hear the click stops at 90º. I wouldn't have thought it was possible on the K mount with the little lever to flick the aperture open and closed meaning it would be tricky to spin the camera around, but with no connections this was a very elegant solution to a problem as it's a big lens to turn.

Does the K-mount version have any ability to put filters in the rear?

I always rated Pentax lenses, and especially the flare control, it's always been a shame for me personally that during my brief pro career I had to change because you couldn't rent a replacement 35mm set up (though you could get 6x7 and 645 at a stretch). I had an LX for a short time (after an ME Super), and any M or A series lens I would gladly use without a hood, and here's a sinful comment, I printed 100's of photos a day when I started, I switched to Leica M6's and a Nikon FM2n, and though the Leica had a different harder contrast and yet by some magic retained more highlight and shadow details than any SLR, I would never ever have used a Leica lens (35mm pre aspherical, I have no experience of the later lenses) without a lens hood, sun from the side and the Leica lost that contrast with no hood, whereas unhooded Pentax lens performed consistently.

Oh wow, I see you have "Lady Luck" a 135mm f1.8, any pictures ? when I started that was one of my dream lenses.

I see from your video you have it up for sale? I'm hoping you're going to come back and say you've changed your mind and we'll keep seeing you around the forums.

Regardless, I'm not sure if you are aware of this from your video, but if you look at the rear small piece that comes off, it is threaded so you can screw on a 49mm filter like you'd use on the front of a normal lens. You mention inserting gelatin etc., so not sure if you saw the threaded part or not.

Do you have any other Pentax gear at this point?
07-21-2018, 07:32 AM - 6 Likes   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
Does the K-mount version have any ability to put filters in the rear?
Aye it breaks down in the same way as yours.

QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
Oh wow, I see you have "Lady Luck" a 135mm f1.8, any pictures ?
Definitely...
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07-21-2018, 07:41 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I see from your video you have it up for sale? I'm hoping you're going to come back and say you've changed your mind and we'll keep seeing you around the forums.

Regardless, I'm not sure if you are aware of this from your video, but if you look at the rear small piece that comes off, it is threaded so you can screw on a 49mm filter like you'd use on the front of a normal lens. You mention inserting gelatin etc., so not sure if you saw the threaded part or not.

Do you have any other Pentax gear at this point?
It was not my intention to promote the lens for sale on this forum. I got the technical details from the forums review section but was surprised when I found the 90 degree rotation by new users can't post there. I am severely disabled, I was classified as "non-functional" (and give a green slip that entitled me to work as a car parking attendant) when I became a darkroom technician and then photojournalist for 5 years. I would not have got my first job had it not been for a Pentax ME super, I wouldn't have risen so quickly to international work from the regionals if it wasn't from the pain of the disability and fighting against it. I have a spinal injury with bone fragments welded to the cord by scar tissue as the NHS left me in 1994 for 13 months. If they'd bothered to X-ray me in August 94, and done the surgery I'd have healed, had some weak discs, but be okay. Now I walk with a stick, a wheelchair after winter and I can't go out. I can't work because of a very strict medical regime, I tired 6 months of "training" to take some photos last year and after 45 minutes lost control of a leg and shook like a leaf. Carrying on the training, I then bust a ligament in my right hand that I use for my stick and that was real bad. (Not as bad as having a stick on a wrist strap, raising a camera to one's eye and hitting oneself between the leg as the stick dangles though

I like to reminisce about Pentax and how I started. I never intended to stay in the darkroom, and though I had access to the Junk cupboard full of Nikon gear, I was building my own Pentax system, hence why I ended up with an LX (two actually one after the other, bought secondhand, loved the cameras, hated the shutter that would fail to often). A lucky purchase of a Leica and my colleagues using Nikon pushed the switch and me selling my pentax gear, with much regret. The lens is my father's, I'm selling for him. If I could think of anyway of making money out of it by using it, or could carry it without risking further prolapses, I'd keep it, and frankly when he asked me to sell it, I didn't rate it much as when I last saw it 20 years ago and it dimmed the viewfinder on film cameras, I was not impressed. But now with mirrorless and the way the LCD viewfinder brightens up as one stops down, this is now an exceptionally relevant lens. The "problem" as I see it, is a) people using zooms to 600mm and shooting open aperture so they'll not get the quality this gets when stopped down only slightly, b) Bloody mirror lenses, useless f8 things, donoughts in the background.

I've always thought Pentax got some things so correct, the lens release button on the right and the raised bump so you can change things in the dark with one's fingers near the shutter, Leica and Fuji have this (though fuji doesn't have the bump), Nikon's urgh, have to change to the left hand or push the button with one's thumb holding over the lens, and then trying to put the lens on the only way of aligning it is to look or on an old Pre-AI lens with the strange sticky out metal bit, cutting your thunk on the horseshoe.

If I could carry gear, then I would seriously consider Pentax for 85mm and above, I like an optical viewfinder under that focal length, and the pixel shift technology fascinates me (though I don't claim to understand it fully). My physical problems stem a lot from having a camera around my neck and stooping, I've tried photo jackets and have issues with the momentum as one turns, My left side is so sensitive now that I have to carry on my right and bang into my stick, I have tried peak design belt clips but something confuses my nervous system and I walk a ragged line. But I had a good five years, even if I feel that some stories were never told.

---------- Post added 07-21-18 at 07:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Aye it breaks down in the same way as yours.
So how does the aperture stop down then, if it comes apart?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Definitely...
Nice.

07-21-2018, 08:00 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Interesting you don't have it
Mines the same as shown here with sort of a castellated ring not knurled ones.

SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Does your lens have the rear sight?
Aye but it's not attached, must get round to find out how to reattach it in the correct manner.
07-21-2018, 08:03 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
So how does the aperture stop down then, if it comes apart?
The break apart bit is just a couple of inches forward of the camera, the aperture ring are a good bit further forward of that.
07-21-2018, 08:42 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by nod Quote
It was not my intention to promote the lens for sale on this forum.
I didn't take it this way at all, so no worries, at least not from my standpoint. Just was honestly a bit disappointed at the thought of you not keeping her. I get nostalgic, and my Dad's SV is within arm's reach. His Meyer Optik Orestegor 4/200 is mounted on my K-1 at this moment. I just can't let these things go.

Really sorry to hear of your injury too. I get this. I have 5 herniated discs, one torn disc, and the resultant bone spurs, spinal stenosis and arthritis all at work against me. Yes, it does give you something to fight for, daily. I refuse to give up. So far, hanging in there. Carrying things around is a true agony though. I grab my K3II for the daily walk with the dog for a lighter carry than my K-1. I'm in a constant search for better ways of distributing load too. I've been wondering about one of those vests for awhile now, even if I ended up looking like a goofball. Some would say I already do.

Last edited by clickclick; 07-21-2018 at 12:19 PM.
07-21-2018, 08:49 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Aye but it's not attached, must get round to find out how to reattach it in the correct manner.

It's easy. My lens was full of fungus when I bought it, so I did a full dismantling of it. If you loosen the three set screws on the aperture ring, it will slide back revealing the holes to mount it. Do you have a supply of screws? If not, I have some on hand and can probably do some tests to let you know what fits for thread etc. Send me a PM with your address, and I'll send you some if you need them and I have them.

Would you mind measuring the dimensions of the sight? I'd love to make one since I can't seem to find one. I think the important dimensions would be the overall height from the bottom to the top - outer dimension if you will, to know the height of the top edge from the lens itself. And then the depth of the V notch. From there, I should be able to make a pretty good copy.
07-21-2018, 09:06 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
It's easy
That has no doubt gotta be an understatement, you've no idea how cack-handed the old Kerrowdown can be at times.

QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
If you loosen the three set screws on the aperture ring, it will slide back revealing the holes to mount it.
I can't even see any screws...

QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Do you have a supply of screws? If not, I have some on hand and can probably do some tests to let you know what fits for thread etc
Nope certainly didn't get those with the lens, why would anyone take it off anyway?

QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Would you mind measuring the dimensions of the sight?
No problem I've got it right in front of me... sight is 1mm thick, 22mm outside edge, measured square not following taper, from level surface to top of point, depth of V, a gnats over 2mm, base width 12mm, top width 6mm, fold over at base 4mm. Is that all you need?

Hope you like the technical speak thrown in there, oh and it's painted shiny black.

Last edited by Kerrowdown; 07-21-2018 at 09:21 AM.
07-21-2018, 10:26 AM   #13
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Interesting and handy "feature" on the lens. I used to own one and never knew it worked like that! Oh well - long time ago.
07-21-2018, 11:01 AM   #14
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One forgets the length of the focusing throw on old manual focus lenses - I've only got a 50/1.7 in fully manual, and that's much more than modern lenses, but that thing is spectacular!
07-21-2018, 11:30 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Mines the same as shown here with sort of a castellated ring not knurled ones.

SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database



Aye but it's not attached, must get round to find out how to reattach it in the correct manner.
Just had a look and seen the photo of your lens, but does this mean it's a manual stop down, rather than an automatic that holds the lens open before shooting and then stops down? Because if not, I don't understand why they got rid of the 90 degree feature, is the little white circle moveable on a smooth surface? and what's the "button" on the last textured one? Is the lens foot, 90 degree click stopped? My father didn't know that his lens did this as it was pretty tight, I think the recent heatwave might have caused a little expansion as I found it by accident after the cricket match.
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