The New Fat Fifty is Here (first day shooting)

PentaPrime · 07-25-2018, 10:11 AM

Sorry if I missed this but how is the AF accuracy?

Ronald Oakes · 07-25-2018, 10:23 AM

Images look fantastic ! Silent focus sounds amazing !
The size and weight is undeniably Repulsive....

johnkrumm · 07-25-2018, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by PentaPrime

Sorry if I missed this but how is the AF accuracy?

So far so good. Haven’t tried any AF adjustments. Might be my imagination but it seems to handle backlighting well. Accuracy and speed drops on really low light. I’m taking a few shots at a dim conference right now and having good results with mf and live view... manual focus is quite good.

**monochrome** · 07-25-2018, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Ronald Oakes

Images look fantastic ! Silent focus sounds amazing !
The size and weight is undeniably Repulsive....

Pentax people are accustomed to tiny f/4 pancake lenses on svelte APSc Cameras. Give us the competitive optics and FF body we’ve begged for and what do we do?

Nickname the lens Fat Fifty and decry the ‘repulsive’ size and weight.

Happy my appendages are rather large.

**BigMackCam** · 07-25-2018, 10:57 AM

It looks big and heavy, but no worse than (and probably not as bad as) a fast 24-70. If a fast 50mm is what you want to shoot with and you won't compromise on IQ, I don't see the size and weight of this lens being an issue

**RobA_Oz** · 07-25-2018, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by johnkrumm

Not slow, I said medium, in between. I think my Tamron 28-70 2.8 might be quicker. Also might be partly perception because of the near silence. Mostly it’s probably geared for heavy glass.

My apologies – my loose wording. If someone does some timed testing, as with the K-1ii vs K-1 AF speed, we’ll know for sure.

Originally posted by johnkrumm

I have the FA 50 2.8 macro, which is a great lens I think. This one has nicer contrast and color, better bokeh, and is equally good edge to edge.

The edge-to-edge performance is what I was thinking of, so that’s good to know.

Originally posted by johnkrumm

The 43 limited also puts up a good fight and I will definitely still use it. It has competitive sharpness stopped down, especially in the center, and good contrast. The new 50 kills it with bokeh, f 1.4 sharpness, and focusing distance.

The wide-open performance is the real attraction for this lens, in my view. It’s where lenses like the fast Leicas seem to shine – I recall it being specifically mentioned in one review as part of the attraction for their system.

johnkrumm · 07-25-2018, 12:56 PM

To be fair, it is heavier than the D-FA 24-70 2.8, and 100 grams heavier than the Sigma Art 50 1.4. I did my research. : )

Here's a shot from today at an event. It was quite dark on the speaker and AF was hit and miss so I used MF and live view, which worked well. ISO 2500, 1/80 and f 2.8. Boosted exposure a lot in Lightroom...

biz-engineer · 07-25-2018, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by johnkrumm

AF was hit and miss

Surprising. With f1.4 max aperture it shouldn't be, even in low light. Or am I wrong?

beholder3 · 07-25-2018, 02:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Surprising. With f1.4 max aperture it shouldn't be, even in low light. Or am I wrong?

AF only differentiates between F5.6 and faster versus F2.8 and faster (so primes with F1.4 have no advantage versus a F2.8 zoom). And the latter only improves precision (less "slightly offs"). No impact on "hit and miss" ratios.

Low diffuse light and faces with no clear contrast edges are bad for AF.

johnkrumm · 07-25-2018, 02:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Surprising. With f1.4 max aperture it shouldn't be, even in low light. Or am I wrong?

Well, light was very dim and there was some bright backlight. The subject had low contrast. So 1.4 helps but it doesn't work miracles.

Here is the "out of Lightroom" untouched original...

pathdoc · 07-25-2018, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by gofour3

Nope the manual focus A50/1.2 was the last one Pentax made. Must have been too expensive/difficult for Pentax to make a 50/1.2 AF lens?

Phil.

I suspect there are a few things standing in the way.

The first is technical, although the A50/1.2 did manage to put the A electrical contacts around the edge; however, fitting the screwdrive in without making the lens overlarge might have been an issue. f/1.2 is the fastest you can get a 50-55mm lens before you start to run out of room between the outer edge of the rear element and the inner edge of the K mount throat. This is why Canon can support an AF 50/1.0 and 85/1.2; their mount diameter is much wider.

The second is a matter of style; it's probably assumed that anyone using an f/1.2 lens is doing the sort of work where manual focus would be more than adequate.

The third is that it's really not needed any more, at least in terms of light-gathering ability; even a middle-of-the-road DSLR can do better at 1600 than most films could at 400 when the A50/1.2 was invented. You're better off giving a 50/1.4 a shorter minimum focal distance.

---------- Post added 25-07-18 at 20:12 ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

Pentax people are accustomed to tiny f/4 pancake lenses on svelte APSc Cameras..

To be fair, the last 50mm f/1.4 full-frame AF lens that Pentax made was not exactly large (though having the motor inside the camera body does tend to keep the size down).

The only true test is to put three K-1's side by side with an FA50/1.4, a DA* 55/1.4 and a D-FA*50/1.4 mounted. Then at least we are comparing apples to apples.

pinholecam · 07-25-2018, 04:01 PM

Congrats on the lens and I really like what I am seeing here so far in these samples.
The OOF rendering is really tempered in all the samples without anything that is overly harsh, busy, swirling and on top of that, its almost as if there is an additional layer of 'blur' diffusion of that bokeh to make it more smooth/gentle.

If you can, please post some shots for half body portraits and full body ones with foliage and also in an urban one with straight lines like fences/grills.
I'd really like to see how the lens performs in the above contexts.
TIA

**BigMackCam** · 07-25-2018, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by pathdoc

To be fair, the last 50mm f/1.4 full-frame AF lens that Pentax made was not exactly large (though having the motor inside the camera body does tend to keep the size down).

The FA50/1.4 is positively compact, IMHO, as are most comparable fast 50s of the era. The two huge design differences in the new lens are the high-tech in-lens focus motor (as you already pointed out), and an optical formula that will turn your brain to mush if you think about it (15 elements vs 7)! Much as I love my FA50/1.4, it really does show its age... especially wide open. For someone like me, with my interests and tastes, that's generally not a problem. But I can see why those who want optimal correction combined with first-class rendering at all apertures would be prepared to sacrifice the convenience of those earlier, smaller 50s...

timw4mail · 07-25-2018, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

The FA50/1.4 is positively compact, IMHO, as are most comparable fast 50s of the era. The two huge design differences in the new lens are the high-tech in-lens focus motor (as you already pointed out), and an optical formula that will turn your brain to mush if you think about it (15 elements vs 7)! Much as I love my FA50/1.4, it really does show its age... especially wide open. For someone like me, with my interests and tastes, that's generally not a problem. But I can see why those who want optimal correction combined with first-class rendering at all apertures would be prepared to sacrifice the convenience of those earlier, smaller 50s...

With the size of the DFA, it almost seems like they designed a medium format lens, and then make sure the 35mm image circle is completely in the sweet spot. But that's idle speculation on my part.

johnkrumm · 07-25-2018, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by timw4mail

With the size of the DFA, it almost seems like they designed a medium format lens, and then make sure the 35mm image circle is completely in the sweet spot. But that's idle speculation on my part.

It sort of makes the K1 feel like a medium format camera. But I saw a 645Z with a zoom in the field a while back, and he took it out to show me, and it dwarfed the K1.

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07-25-2018, 10:11 AM	#46
PentaPrime Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Calgary Posts: 65	Sorry if I missed this but how is the AF accuracy?

07-25-2018, 10:23 AM	#47
Ronald Oakes Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,582	Images look fantastic ! Silent focus sounds amazing ! The size and weight is undeniably Repulsive....

07-25-2018, 10:47 AM	#48
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141 Original Poster	Originally posted by PentaPrime Sorry if I missed this but how is the AF accuracy? So far so good. Haven’t tried any AF adjustments. Might be my imagination but it seems to handle backlighting well. Accuracy and speed drops on really low light. I’m taking a few shots at a dim conference right now and having good results with mf and live view... manual focus is quite good.

07-25-2018, 10:50 AM	#49
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Ronald Oakes Images look fantastic ! Silent focus sounds amazing ! The size and weight is undeniably Repulsive.... Pentax people are accustomed to tiny f/4 pancake lenses on svelte APSc Cameras. Give us the competitive optics and FF body we’ve begged for and what do we do? Nickname the lens Fat Fifty and decry the ‘repulsive’ size and weight. Happy my appendages are rather large.

07-25-2018, 10:57 AM	#50
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	It looks big and heavy, but no worse than (and probably not as bad as) a fast 24-70. If a fast 50mm is what you want to shoot with and you won't compromise on IQ, I don't see the size and weight of this lens being an issue

07-25-2018, 12:00 PM	#51
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by johnkrumm Not slow, I said medium, in between. I think my Tamron 28-70 2.8 might be quicker. Also might be partly perception because of the near silence. Mostly it’s probably geared for heavy glass. My apologies – my loose wording. If someone does some timed testing, as with the K-1ii vs K-1 AF speed, we’ll know for sure. Originally posted by johnkrumm I have the FA 50 2.8 macro, which is a great lens I think. This one has nicer contrast and color, better bokeh, and is equally good edge to edge. The edge-to-edge performance is what I was thinking of, so that’s good to know. Originally posted by johnkrumm The 43 limited also puts up a good fight and I will definitely still use it. It has competitive sharpness stopped down, especially in the center, and good contrast. The new 50 kills it with bokeh, f 1.4 sharpness, and focusing distance. The wide-open performance is the real attraction for this lens, in my view. It’s where lenses like the fast Leicas seem to shine – I recall it being specifically mentioned in one review as part of the attraction for their system.

07-25-2018, 12:56 PM	#52
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141 Original Poster	To be fair, it is heavier than the D-FA 24-70 2.8, and 100 grams heavier than the Sigma Art 50 1.4. I did my research. : ) Here's a shot from today at an event. It was quite dark on the speaker and AF was hit and miss so I used MF and live view, which worked well. ISO 2500, 1/80 and f 2.8. Boosted exposure a lot in Lightroom...

07-25-2018, 01:43 PM	#53
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by johnkrumm AF was hit and miss Surprising. With f1.4 max aperture it shouldn't be, even in low light. Or am I wrong?

07-25-2018, 02:02 PM - 1 Like	#54
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by biz-engineer Surprising. With f1.4 max aperture it shouldn't be, even in low light. Or am I wrong? AF only differentiates between F5.6 and faster versus F2.8 and faster (so primes with F1.4 have no advantage versus a F2.8 zoom). And the latter only improves precision (less "slightly offs"). No impact on "hit and miss" ratios. Low diffuse light and faces with no clear contrast edges are bad for AF.

07-25-2018, 03:28 PM	#56
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by gofour3 Nope the manual focus A50/1.2 was the last one Pentax made. Must have been too expensive/difficult for Pentax to make a 50/1.2 AF lens? Phil. I suspect there are a few things standing in the way. The first is technical, although the A50/1.2 did manage to put the A electrical contacts around the edge; however, fitting the screwdrive in without making the lens overlarge might have been an issue. f/1.2 is the fastest you can get a 50-55mm lens before you start to run out of room between the outer edge of the rear element and the inner edge of the K mount throat. This is why Canon can support an AF 50/1.0 and 85/1.2; their mount diameter is much wider. The second is a matter of style; it's probably assumed that anyone using an f/1.2 lens is doing the sort of work where manual focus would be more than adequate. The third is that it's really not needed any more, at least in terms of light-gathering ability; even a middle-of-the-road DSLR can do better at 1600 than most films could at 400 when the A50/1.2 was invented. You're better off giving a 50/1.4 a shorter minimum focal distance. ---------- Post added 25-07-18 at 20:12 ---------- Originally posted by monochrome Pentax people are accustomed to tiny f/4 pancake lenses on svelte APSc Cameras.. To be fair, the last 50mm f/1.4 full-frame AF lens that Pentax made was not exactly large (though having the motor inside the camera body does tend to keep the size down). The only true test is to put three K-1's side by side with an FA50/1.4, a DA* 55/1.4 and a D-FA*50/1.4 mounted. Then at least we are comparing apples to apples.

07-25-2018, 04:01 PM	#57
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Congrats on the lens and I really like what I am seeing here so far in these samples. The OOF rendering is really tempered in all the samples without anything that is overly harsh, busy, swirling and on top of that, its almost as if there is an additional layer of 'blur' diffusion of that bokeh to make it more smooth/gentle. If you can, please post some shots for half body portraits and full body ones with foliage and also in an urban one with straight lines like fences/grills. I'd really like to see how the lens performs in the above contexts. TIA

07-25-2018, 04:20 PM	#58
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by pathdoc To be fair, the last 50mm f/1.4 full-frame AF lens that Pentax made was not exactly large (though having the motor inside the camera body does tend to keep the size down). The FA50/1.4 is positively compact, IMHO, as are most comparable fast 50s of the era. The two huge design differences in the new lens are the high-tech in-lens focus motor (as you already pointed out), and an optical formula that will turn your brain to mush if you think about it (15 elements vs 7)! Much as I love my FA50/1.4, it really does show its age... especially wide open. For someone like me, with my interests and tastes, that's generally not a problem. But I can see why those who want optimal correction combined with first-class rendering at all apertures would be prepared to sacrifice the convenience of those earlier, smaller 50s...

07-25-2018, 04:43 PM	#59
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by BigMackCam The FA50/1.4 is positively compact, IMHO, as are most comparable fast 50s of the era. The two huge design differences in the new lens are the high-tech in-lens focus motor (as you already pointed out), and an optical formula that will turn your brain to mush if you think about it (15 elements vs 7)! Much as I love my FA50/1.4, it really does show its age... especially wide open. For someone like me, with my interests and tastes, that's generally not a problem. But I can see why those who want optimal correction combined with first-class rendering at all apertures would be prepared to sacrifice the convenience of those earlier, smaller 50s... With the size of the DFA, it almost seems like they designed a medium format lens, and then make sure the 35mm image circle is completely in the sweet spot. But that's idle speculation on my part.

07-25-2018, 05:12 PM	#60
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141 Original Poster	Originally posted by timw4mail With the size of the DFA, it almost seems like they designed a medium format lens, and then make sure the 35mm image circle is completely in the sweet spot. But that's idle speculation on my part. It sort of makes the K1 feel like a medium format camera. But I saw a 645Z with a zoom in the field a while back, and he took it out to show me, and it dwarfed the K1.