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09-17-2008, 07:31 AM   #16
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One of the motivators in my desire to keep my lens buying under control is my camera bag. A few nights ago, I completely loaded my Tamrac Expedition 4 backpack with my body and all of my lenses, with my monopod strapped on and put it on my back--it was definitely heavy. That's one of the reasons I've questioned my "need" for a fast telezoom--why not use my tele macro instead? I can always use my TC whenever I need something longer.

Next week, I'll start working more with the primes in my kit--I'm leaning towards the A100 for next week. I'm really curious to see how well it will work with the TC in a "real world" situation. Besides the AF, one of the reasons I would get the Sigma 105 is that it is faster and it would work that much better with the TC.

Heather

09-17-2008, 06:04 PM   #17
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I managed to get out with the 12-24 today. Click on the following link to see some pics I've taken with it this week:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/37255-playing-da12-24-4-a.html#post345201

Heather
09-22-2008, 08:16 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
I managed to get out with the 12-24 today. Click on the following link to see some pics I've taken with it this week:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/37255-playing-da12-24-4-a.html#post345201

Heather
I am happy for you. As for myself, I sold almost all of my film gear and I cut down to one dSLR body. I trimmed all flash and lens that I seldom use. As a result since my last LBA challenge, I trimmed 23 documented items in my blog. And it is still on-going.


That does not mean I don't regret why I buy them in the first place and later rush into selling unused gear in discounts. Yes, I do suck into the buying activity. And that comes from hitting bottom with my LBA into the dark side with cheaper gear and think I can outsmart the system. I am so wrong.

But when I think positively, I do have fun owning some of the gear. Not ony that, I get bolder in trying out something new to challenge my photos with cheaper gear. It is all down to my skills and the great opportunity in learning with handicapped gear on a tight budget.

Buying inexpensive gear can become expensive as there is a relatively smaller ratio of satisfaction and unfortunately, the law of diminishing return applies to cheaper gear. But it is more psychological in me in preventing me into buying expensive gear. I can't imagine if I get all the good gear and be done with LBA buying side. Life is BORING for me to get the DA * zoom and all the limited pancake in a rush and be done with lens buying. I like to plan in getting a precious gear once every year and use each one to the fullest content while enjoying the backward compatibility with good old lens in K and M42, and perhaps Nikon lens pre-A1 and Tamron Adaptall lens. Here are some of my defeats into buying too many and too fast -- the culprits of LBA un-managed.

Summary of defeats in LBA:
  • The A, K, M, Takumar, SuperTak, OffBrand, Russian clubs -- memerships sign you up straight into the LBA clinics
  • It is like gambling, once you get a gear of great value at a low cost, you thought you can repeat and that you can outsmart the system. I am so wrong on this.
  • Watchlist in eBay is the evil of LBA thoughts
  • Bragging rights from others with great photos I don't have is the cause of both misery and the daydreaming of the undiscovered lenses
  • The sheer beauty of lens. They all smell like coffee in the morning
  • Our urge to do better with photos with better gear
  • Our urge to blame on our current gear for our not-so-great photos

Some practical suggestions to guard against defeats:
  • Have a road map, when you lust a lens with a certain focal length, check religiously with your road map and planning. Toss the idea if it is off from planing
  • Never buy two lens together. Buy only one at a time and spread out the time to months instead of weeks. You have less chance in buying too much too fast if you pace yourself according to plan.
  • Buy 1 and sell 1. If you have cheaper and unused gear, try buy 1 and sell 2/3. I find this similar in changing clothing to find the latest to fit my needs and style while giving someone's else a chance to enjoy my current gear. Be generous and sincere in selling. Don't give junk to others.
  • Never sign up to the A, K, M, Takumar, SuperTak, Russian, Sears, Off Brand clubs
  • Identity the Best and your most admired photographers in the Forum. Follow him for his photos but not his lens. Use his lens only for your planning but erase them in your dreams.
  • Set up a paypal or separate a/c that you only can contribute a fixed amount to fund your hobby either from selling or a small monthly saving. No credit card involved

More will come from me how to think of strategies to manage the defeats

Last edited by hinman; 09-23-2008 at 10:10 AM.
09-22-2008, 10:30 PM   #19
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You don't like the clubs?

There is a flip side you know. The various clubs are one way to help people see that they stuff they already own is probably capable of very, very good results. They also help the inexperienced hobbyist see that they don't have to run up the credit card balance in order to own a very capable kit.

Now for some unfortunate, vulnerable people () being exposed to all those beautiful images from the full range of capable optics that are available is simply too much. They literally want to OWN IT ALL!

What we really need to do is to continue to remind people that really good results can be had with the kit lens and/or a limited kit. We need to encourage people to improve their seeing and composition skills as the primary means to realizing the images they see in their head.

I really appreciate the various threads where the old-timers (like me) are allowed to ramble about our photographic history. It is good for me to remember that I shot for 13 years with an inexpensive (though tough) Ricoh Singlex TLS with an off-brand Rexatar 50mm lens. I have many hundreds of beautiful Kodachrome slides from those years. It is also good to remember that for the next 20+ years my kit consisted of a 28mm, a 50mm, a 70-150 zoom and a 2x TC all mated with a Ricoh XR7. During most of that time the 28mm was mounted except for when I was using the 50mm. The more expensive zoom and tc languished in the bag unless I needed the zoom's close-focus capabilities. Again I have thousands of slides and many very fine large B&W prints that were produced with those tools.

Steve

P.S.
I really feel fortunate for being exposed to posts by you, jsherman999, carpents, and others showing what can be accomplished with various old or off-beat glass. I would never have had the confidence to round out my kit with the Jupiter-9 or the Zenitar 16 for example and would likely have already spent money I really did not have on lenses that are no more capable for my style of shooting that the stuff I already had in my bag.


Last edited by stevebrot; 09-23-2008 at 08:38 AM.
09-23-2008, 08:11 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
You don't like the clubs?

There is a flip side you know. The various clubs are one way to help people see that they stuff they already own is probably capable of very, very good results. They also help the inexperienced hobbyist see that they don't have to run up the credit card balance in order to own a very capable kit.

Now for some unfortunate, vulnerable people () being exposed to all those beautiful images from the full range of capable optics that are available is simply too much. They literally want to OWN IT ALL!

What we really need to do is to continue to remind people that really good results can be had with the kit lens and/or a limited kit. We need to encourage people to improve their seeing and composition skills as the primary means to realizing the images they see in their head.

I really appreciate the various threads where the old-timers (like me) are allowed to ramble about our photographic history. It is good for me to remember that I shot for 13 years with an inexpensive (though tough) Ricoh Singlex TLS with an off-brand Rexatar 50mm lens. I have many hundreds of beautiful Kodachrome slides from those years. It is also good to remember that for the next 20+ years my kit consisted of a 28mm, a 50mm, a 70-150 zoom and a 2x TC all mated with a Ricoh XR7. During most of that time the 28mm was mounted except for when I was using the 50mm. The more expensive zoom and tc languished in the bag unless I needed the zoom's close-focus capabilities. Again I have thousands of slides and many very fine large B&W prints that were produced with those tools.

Steve

P.S.
I really feel fortunate for being exposed to posts by you, jsherman99, carpents, and others showing what can be accomplished with various old or off-beat glass. I would never have had the confidence to round out my kit with the Jupiter-9 or the Zenitar 16 for example and would likely have already spent money I really did not have on lenses that are no more capable for my style of shooting that the stuff I already had in my bag.

Well put, Steve. The Tak, M, etc clubs are meant to show what can be done with the excellent older Pentax primes - non-limited, non- DA*. You can build an entire collection of M or Tak lenses for the cost of the FA 31ltd - or you could buy one M or Tak for < $100 or < $40 in some cases and get incredible results. Hopefully the clubs provide a sane way to selectively apply your LBA!


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09-23-2008, 09:45 AM   #21
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Jay & Steve. No offense and no pun intended. I value all the club photos but I have to admit all the photos in the club threads are both the pleasant threads as well as the tempting threads. Jay and Steve, you two are my admired members for your photos, your knowledge and your points of views. And I am scared to open up Jay's thread with photos -- I am always thrilled to see the color in Jay's photos and I am most tempted with his gear.

Those threads with "why a certain lens does not suck" are next on the temptation thread yet to be paid attention. Please don't get me wrong, those information are needed and they offer the valuable information with a lot of fun factor but they are also the most LBA tempting thoughts . With an unclear mind and lack of judgment in what is needed, a lot of lens will fly into our homes before we know we have 4 copies of the similar lens and none stands out over the other -- reading they are all great and good. Please count how many copies of 50mm that we have owned in our gear both present and past. Please YELL if you only have one 50mm currently or that you never own another 50mm in the past. You are the saint if you ask me!

So it is utmost important to have the right strategy to manage our thoughts, planning, while enjoying the hobby with advances into learning and sharing, and not gear collection. All those all wonderful gear sub $100 good old glass are great but we have to enjoy them not as a buying addiction for the fun of owning it for pride.

Just a thought in sharing the need in managing our LBA thoughts and behavior.

Last edited by hinman; 09-23-2008 at 10:02 AM.
09-23-2008, 10:02 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Jay & Steve. No offense and no pun intended. I value all the club photos but I have to admit all the photos in the club threads are both the pleasant threads as well as the tempting threads. Jay and Steve, you two are my admired members for your photos, your knowledge and your points of views. And I am scared to open up Jay's thread with photos -- I am always thrilled to see the color in Jay's photos and I am most tempted with his gear.

Those threads with "why a certain lens does not suck" are next on the temptation thread yet to be paid attention. Please don't get me wrong, those information are needed and they offer the valuable information with a lot of fun factor but they are also the most LBA tempting thoughts . With an unclear mind and lack of judgment in what is needed, a lot of lens will fly into our homes before we know we have 4 copies of the similar lens and none stand out over the other -- reading they are all great and good. Please count how many copies of 50mm that we have owned in my gear both present and past. Please YELL if you only have one 50mm currently or that you never own another 50mm in the past. You are the saint if you ask me!

So it is utmost important to have the right strategy to manage our thoughts, planning while enjoying the hobby with learning and not gear collection. All those all wonderful gear sub $100 good old glass are great but we have to enjoy them not as a buying addiction for the fun of owning it.

Just a thoughts in sharing the need in managing our LBA thoughts and behavior.

At one point I had Seven 50mm's I have to admit an irrational weakness for that FL.

I really like to see folks saying they're 'saving up for' some purchase - it's very healthy IMO to actually put money away for something, vs. buying with credit. It's also very good advice to sell something in order to buy something - keep the balance sheets even.

Also, when you're tempted to buy something, maybe do this beforehand: go out with the lens you own that most closely approximates the one you want to buy, spend a day taking shots. Go home, look at the best results - now, do you really need to make that purchase?

This has saved me lots of $$ - my Tamron 70-300, my M 200 f/4, my M and Super Tak 50's, my Jupiter-9 - all have produced some images that more expensive glass just wouldn't be able to really top.

Good post, good thoughts, hin. people should go to your blog to see what you can do with the older glass. (that blog was one of the original inspirations for the M-club thread! )

.
09-23-2008, 10:16 AM   #23
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I've only had one 50mm so far and I'm keeping it

But I must admit that I did have a few recent LBA attacks and I'm still on the fence about some longer glass..

One of these days I will weed out some of the stuff I am not using too much, but it's hard.. they are all good

09-23-2008, 11:39 AM   #24
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I admit, a certain ennui takes hold... But the best medicine is to both remove myself entirely from photography for an hour and to just use the things I have. But there are times of photographic (and not just gear) ennui.

The clubs? Jay and Steve, c'mon, don't try to tell me we didn't start a mini stampede for the 85's? I didn't keep exact count, but for every person taking the Takumar plunge for the first time there are several who just took delivery of one of the hot lenses.

Myself, I hear the siren calls, but I lash myself to the lenses I already have, the ones that are equally excellent (for the 85, my DA70 and Tamron 90, for example) and try to ride out the storm.

Perhaps there's the ennui, after the storm passes.
09-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Also, when you're tempted to buy something, maybe do this beforehand: go out with the lens you own that most closely approximates the one you want to buy, spend a day taking shots. Go home, look at the best results - now, do you really need to make that purchase?
Someone suggested to me that with zooms, you can set the focal length to the prime length that you're interested in getting (assuming that you have a zoom that covers that length) and tape the lens so it will act like a large prime and force yourself to shoot at that length and see if buying a prime at that length will work for you.

I'm going to try it at 70mm on the 28-75 and the 15 and 21mm lengths on the 12-24 to see if primes in those lengths would work for me.

Heather
09-23-2008, 12:20 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote

The clubs? Jay and Steve, c'mon, don't try to tell me we didn't start a mini stampede for the 85's? I didn't keep exact count, but for every person taking the Takumar plunge for the first time there are several who just took delivery of one of the hot lenses.

....

Perhaps there's the ennui, after the storm passes.


Well, when I became aware of that Pentax 85mm goodness, they were already rare and expensive, but I do think the Takumars and to a lesser extent the M 85's now are more coveted also than they were a couple years ago. This is why I wish pentax would come out with a new DA, DA* or Limited 85mm with the same or similar optical formula to the A* 85 - or even the M 85 - they seem to be working in an optical sweet spot with that FL, and I wish we had a refresh.


QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
Someone suggested to me that with zooms, you can set the focal length to the prime length that you're interested in getting (assuming that you have a zoom that covers that length) and tape the lens so it will act like a large prime and force yourself to shoot at that length and see if buying a prime at that length will work for you.

I'm going to try it at 70mm on the 28-75 and the 15 and 21mm lengths on the 12-24 to see if primes in those lengths would work for me.

Heather

You may find that the 28-75 and 12-24 are so good that you don't need to spend any more for primes in the 12-75 FL - those are two of the best non DA* zooms you can get for Pentax, IMO. (Unless size is important, that is - those zooms aren't tiny.)
09-23-2008, 12:29 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
I admit, a certain ennui takes hold... But the best medicine is to both remove myself entirely from photography for an hour and to just use the things I have. But there are times of photographic (and not just gear) ennui.

The clubs? Jay and Steve, c'mon, don't try to tell me we didn't start a mini stampede for the 85's? I didn't keep exact count, but for every person taking the Takumar plunge for the first time there are several who just took delivery of one of the hot lenses.

Myself, I hear the siren calls, but I lash myself to the lenses I already have, the ones that are equally excellent (for the 85, my DA70 and Tamron 90, for example) and try to ride out the storm.

Perhaps there's the ennui, after the storm passes.
Yes, the clubs definitely increased the demand for certain lenses. It is sort of scary when you think about it. This is particularly true for the tak club. It was my illogical desire to own a SMC tak 50/1.4 that spurred my decision to take the LBA pledge. I have not been a big buyer, but I recognized a slippery slope and opted to resist.

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09-24-2008, 10:15 AM   #28
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Hmmm, a post on another forum (after all you wouldn't catch us saying these things) brought to mind another thought-trap: the idea of the 'backup'.

This excuses our lusting after another similar piece right after we've bought the first one!

This also aligns us with the real pro's who actually may need that backup when out on assignment where renting a new one isn't possible, and where their livelihood depends on that particular bit.

Amongst us, do we really need a 'backup', lower spec body, or a 'backup' similar focal length lens...

I say this and I have something like 4-6 28, 35 and 50/55 mm lenses. None of them are backups. I bought them to teach myself what's different, and yes because I couldn't at the time resist the price. But, should I be out and about and for some reason I drop my 35mm lens... I'm sure as h_ll not going to be carrying around a second one for 'backup'!

(Now, if I were doing that other LBA enabling thing, "lens testing", I might indeed be carrying all 4 35's...)
09-24-2008, 05:34 PM   #29
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I can think of one good justification for a hobbyist having a backup body--you want to use 2 different lenses in a shoot and don't want to or can't change lenses with one body. That's why I want a backup, at least. The last time I went to the zoo, I really wished that I had had a second body to mount a wider lens than the 55-300, as there were a few places that I could've used a wider angle. In my case, the question is now which body to use as a backup--do I keep the K10 and have it be a backup to the K20 that I will eventually buy or do I buy a smaller body to have as a carryaround/backup body to the K10?

Heather
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