M42 lens app setting

**dipo 1** · 11-01-2018, 07:32 AM

OK, dipo 1 here again, so I put my M42 lens on my K5, read all about how to meter using the lens, some very good articles, however, no matter where I set the f stop the meter shows the over/under exposure at dead center. I'm not sure where to set the f stop. If I set the f stop at 5.6, take a picture it turns out Normal (?). When using the TAV it turns out the same. If I adjust the f stop to f 8 the picture darkens as one would expect, however, the exposure meter is still set on dead center. So the question is which f stop do I use? Should I set the f stop at some center point and use the meter to over/under expose the picture or just use the f stops and forget the meter or vice versa? If this made any sense to anyone would someone help me through this confusion?

stevebrot · 11-01-2018, 08:15 AM - **1 Like**

A few hints:

You must be stopped down for both metering and exposure. For most M42 lenses this involves using the A/M switch to allow manual aperture operation. It appears you are doing this.
In other than M, X, or B modes, your camera will default to Av, meaning that shutter speed will automatically follow the amount of light striking the meter sensor
In M mode, the meter will not be active unless the green button is pushed for an instantaneous shutter setting or the optical DOF preview is activated to provide the EV scale
Exposure compensation (+/- button) will work with stop-down metering
There is no EV scale for metering except in the optical viewfinder when using the DOF preview lever. The rear LCD shows the exposure compensation when the camera is not able to set the aperture.

Originally posted by dipo 1

So the question is which f stop do I use?

Use the aperture setting you prefer (using the aperture ring on the lens) and meter the shutter speed to match your intent for the exposure.

I hope this helps.

Steve

**pcrichmond** · 11-01-2018, 08:52 AM

A couple of quick questions, does the lens have the A/M switch as @stevebrot mentioned or does it have the pin in the back?
(If it has the pin this must be pushed in by the adapter or a work around.)

Is your ISO set to auto?
I don't have the K5 but on my K1 in TAv mode my meter will stay in the middle exposure no matter the shutter/fstop combo until the ISO is out of a parameter for the correct exposure.
With this mode I can also adjust the meter/exposure with the EV button.

stevebrot · 11-01-2018, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by pcrichmond

...as @stevebrot mentioned or does it have the pin in the back?
(If it has the pin this must be pushed in by the adapter or a work around.)

All M42 lenses with an A/M switch have an aperture actuator pin on the back unless they have been surgically altered. The switch in the M position deactivates the pin. The opposite case does occur, however, where the lens has a pin, but no A/M switch. That is when a special adapter or surgical workaround is needed to provide a manual aperture.

Note: A bit of clarification regarding the words "Auto" and "Manual" may be in order. In the context of lenses, "auto" usually refers to automatic aperture actuation at exposure time with manual referring to a lens that does not do this, but is stopped down all the time. This is in contrast to automated exposure systems and auto-focus where "auto" has different meanings.

Originally posted by pcrichmond

Is your ISO set to auto?

You bring up an excellent point. The K-5 disallows auto-ISO in M mode, but allows it for stop-down metering in Av (other than M) mode.

Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-01-2018 at 09:21 AM.

Thagomizer · 11-01-2018, 09:50 AM

Given a particular amount of light, a camera's metering system will give a matching, particular exposure if it is on any of the automatic exposure settings. The response is programmed into the system. At a given ISO, there are a number of combinations of aperture and shutter speed which allow the same amount of light into the camera, all of which will give identical exposures. So on a bright, sunny day with your camera set to ISO 100, the following settings will result in identical exposures:

1/100 sec at f16, 1/200 sec. at f11, 1/400 sec. at f8, 1/800 sec. at f5.6, 1/1600 sec at f5.6, etc. While these are all identical exposures, they are not going to be identical photographs. The depth of field and rendering of moving objects will change with aperture and shutter speed respectively. The "correct" combination to use will depend on what you want to do with things like depth of field and capturing moving subjects.

With your M42 lenses, your camera is going to give you the same exposure if it is set on AV, or TAV in a given lighting condition. That's what the automatic exposure system is supposed to do. The viewfinder will darken as you go from f5.6 to f8 (because of the lack of automatic diaphragm that you would have if you were to use a K mount lens instead of M42), but the camera will use either a slower shutter speed (in AV) or a higher ISO (in TAV) to compensate for the reduction in light caused by the smaller aperture to keep the exposure the same. To lighten or darken the image captured, you have to change the exposure to increase or decrease the amount of light reaching the sensor. Using the over or under exposure control is one way you can lighten or darken your image. Using the M manual setting is another. The camera shoots at what you choose to set it rather than what it would be choosing automatically. Using the exposure compensation is probably easier to do on the fly. If you're happy with a particular setting's results and the light on your subject does not change, you don't have to change anything to keep getting that level of exposure.

**pcrichmond** · 11-01-2018, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

All M42 lenses with an A/M switch have an aperture actuator pin on the back unless they have been surgically altered. The switch in the M position deactivates the pin. The opposite case does occur, however, where the lens has a pin, but no A/M switch. That is when a special adapter or surgical workaround is needed to provide a manual aperture.

A nice bit of information and thanks.
None of my M42 lenses have the A/M switch (all 3rd party), so this will be good to know for future purchases.
I have a couple with pin only (can be a pain for focusing) and a few more with dual aperture rings & no pin or switch. The latter I find easier to work with though I know there are others who prefer a simpler method of closing down.
Thanks again.

stevebrot · 11-01-2018, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by pcrichmond

None of my M42 lenses have the A/M switch (all 3rd party), so this will be good to know for future purchases.
I have a couple with pin only (can be a pain for focusing) and a few more with dual aperture rings & no pin or switch. The latter I find easier to work with though I know there are others who prefer a simpler method of closing down.

There are plenty of non-Ashahi M42 lenses with an A/M switch. I have quite a few. The only ones on my shelf that don't are either auto-aperture (with pin) from countries of the former Soviet Union and/or have a preset aperture, meaning that they may be manually switched to a preset aperture and back open with a switch, push-pull ring, or second stop-down ring. I agree that the preset aperture works very well with Pentax dSLRs.

Steve

mcgregni · 11-02-2018, 07:12 AM

Is it fair to say that any such lens with the A/M switch (regardless of it's actual mount), when in the M position will require camera operation as if it were an M42 lens, and when in the A position then camera operation is as if it were an SMC K or M type?

stevebrot · 11-02-2018, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by mcgregni

Is it fair to say that any such lens with the A/M switch (regardless of it's actual mount), when in the M position will require camera operation as if it were an M42 lens, and when in the A position then camera operation is as if it were an SMC K or M type?

...sort of...

On a Pentax dSLR, auto aperture actuation is supported for most* K and M-series lenses in M, X, and B modes. In other than those modes, the lens aperture remains full-open regardless of the lens setting. For adapted lenses with the A/M switch, auto aperture actuation is never supported with the responsibility for stop-down falling to the operator. The availability of auto aperture actuation is a huge factor in favor of K-mount over adapted vintage lenses.

Steve

* Not all K-mount lenses support auto aperture actuation and don't have the aperture actuator lever. A common example would be perspective control lenses. It should also be noted that K-mount lenses with a non-conductive base may also not stop-down with Pentax dSLRs.

mcgregni · 11-02-2018, 10:03 AM

Thanks Steve, I've got a Tamron Adaptall (CT135) with adaptor, and I use this with the switch set to M for macro work with basic tubes (no contacts), so very handy indeed as a high quality budget option.

On the camera directly with A set on the lens I can use the green button stop down metering approach in M mode, just like with my M series lens. Its like two lenses in one!

stevebrot · 11-02-2018, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by mcgregni

Thanks Steve, I've got a Tamron Adaptall (CT135) with adaptor, and I use this with the switch set to M for macro work with basic tubes (no contacts), so very handy indeed as a high quality budget option.

On the camera directly with A set on the lens I can use the green button stop down metering approach in M mode, just like with my M series lens. Its like two lenses in one!

That is cool! I had forgotten that original Adaptall lenses had an A/M switch and with the K-mount adapter would provide the best of both worlds.

Steve

**dipo 1** · 11-04-2018, 06:53 AM

Ask and ye shall receive. Thanks everyone who answered my question, as always you are the best. Will digest the above and hope it will sink in. Thanks again dipo 1

**dipo 1** · 11-08-2018, 01:42 PM

dipo 1 here, I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, so here i go. I'm use to my old Spotmatic SLR and when you turn on (?) the light meter you get an analog pointer in the viewfinder, move the f stop ring until you get the pointer centered, and take a picture. If the pointer would not center I would change shutter speed to get the right exposure. Now, I understand that in Av and TAv mode or full auto you don't have to fiddle (?) with settings. I would like to shoot in manual mode whenever possible, however I don't know where to set the f stop/exposure/shutter speed. With the K5 how do I know when proper exposure or shutter speed are at the right setting to get the best picture, in manual mode. Do I set the picture up, and then push the green button and shoot away. Using the old spot I knew when I was at the right exposure because of the needle, with the K5 I'm missing something and not sure I know what or how. I take pictures now by how dark the viewfinder is not by looking at a setting. Just use to that damn needle.

stevebrot · 11-08-2018, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by dipo 1

Do I set the picture up, and then push the green button and shoot away. Using the old spot I knew when I was at the right exposure because of the needle, with the K5 I'm missing something and not sure I know what or how. I take pictures now by how dark the viewfinder is not by looking at a setting. Just use to that damn needle.

OK...Here is how it is done with an M42 lens, in detail starting with M mode using the built-in meter and the green button:

Put body in M mode
Confirm that the meter is in center-weighted mode
Set desired f-stop/aperture on the lens
Frame your subject and stop down the lens manually
Press the green button. The body will set its best notion of correct exposure.
Open the aperture back up to focus
Close the aperture for the exposure and press the shutter release
Repeat the previous two steps, shooting at will, until either the subject or the light changes

Note that opening and closing the aperture is easily done with the Auto/Manual switch on the side of the lens. Now the instructions on doing stop-down metering in M mode without the green button:

Substitute the following for step #5 above...Use the optical DOF preview switch to display an EV scale in the viewfinder and adjust aperture or shutter to place the bar where you want it on the scale.

Finally, stop-down metering in Av mode:

Place mode dial on Av, Sv, Tv, TAv, or P (all default to Av when a lens with base contacts is not detected)
Place the Auto/Manual switch in the Manual position and open the aperture to its widest setting
Frame your subject and focus
Stop down the lens until a suitable shutter speed is displayed
Press the shutter release
Repeat the above three steps shooting at will

There is one additional option and that is to use M mode along with an external, hand-held, light meter. Meter the light, set the aperture on the lens and the shutter on the camera. Open the aperture to focus and stop down for the exposure. Use those settings until either the light or the subject changes.

You may notice that the stop-down metered settings sometimes don't work very well. That is due to some quirks in how stop-down metering is handled by the main exposure meter. The above steps work about the same in live view, but with much more consistent results.

Steve

**dipo 1** · 11-09-2018, 01:13 PM

Thanks Steve that is much more illuminating and less confusing. I just cannot seem to get myself into the digital world. K5 is confusing but will continue to soldier on to learn it well. Please God don't ask me to do something on my I phone.

11-01-2018, 07:32 AM	#1
dipo 1 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 374	M42 lens app setting OK, dipo 1 here again, so I put my M42 lens on my K5, read all about how to meter using the lens, some very good articles, however, no matter where I set the f stop the meter shows the over/under exposure at dead center. I'm not sure where to set the f stop. If I set the f stop at 5.6, take a picture it turns out Normal (?). When using the TAV it turns out the same. If I adjust the f stop to f 8 the picture darkens as one would expect, however, the exposure meter is still set on dead center. So the question is which f stop do I use? Should I set the f stop at some center point and use the meter to over/under expose the picture or just use the f stops and forget the meter or vice versa? If this made any sense to anyone would someone help me through this confusion?

11-01-2018, 08:15 AM - 1 Like	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	A few hints: You must be stopped down for both metering and exposure. For most M42 lenses this involves using the A/M switch to allow manual aperture operation. It appears you are doing this. In other than M, X, or B modes, your camera will default to Av, meaning that shutter speed will automatically follow the amount of light striking the meter sensor In M mode, the meter will not be active unless the green button is pushed for an instantaneous shutter setting or the optical DOF preview is activated to provide the EV scale Exposure compensation (+/- button) will work with stop-down metering There is no EV scale for metering except in the optical viewfinder when using the DOF preview lever. The rear LCD shows the exposure compensation when the camera is not able to set the aperture. Originally posted by dipo 1 So the question is which f stop do I use? Use the aperture setting you prefer (using the aperture ring on the lens) and meter the shutter speed to match your intent for the exposure. I hope this helps. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-01-2018 at 08:43 AM.

11-08-2018, 03:04 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by dipo 1 Do I set the picture up, and then push the green button and shoot away. Using the old spot I knew when I was at the right exposure because of the needle, with the K5 I'm missing something and not sure I know what or how. I take pictures now by how dark the viewfinder is not by looking at a setting. Just use to that damn needle. OK...Here is how it is done with an M42 lens, in detail starting with M mode using the built-in meter and the green button: Put body in M mode Confirm that the meter is in center-weighted mode Set desired f-stop/aperture on the lens Frame your subject and stop down the lens manually Press the green button. The body will set its best notion of correct exposure. Open the aperture back up to focus Close the aperture for the exposure and press the shutter release Repeat the previous two steps, shooting at will, until either the subject or the light changes Note that opening and closing the aperture is easily done with the Auto/Manual switch on the side of the lens. Now the instructions on doing stop-down metering in M mode without the green button: Substitute the following for step #5 above...Use the optical DOF preview switch to display an EV scale in the viewfinder and adjust aperture or shutter to place the bar where you want it on the scale. Finally, stop-down metering in Av mode: Place mode dial on Av, Sv, Tv, TAv, or P (all default to Av when a lens with base contacts is not detected) Place the Auto/Manual switch in the Manual position and open the aperture to its widest setting Frame your subject and focus Stop down the lens until a suitable shutter speed is displayed Press the shutter release Repeat the above three steps shooting at will There is one additional option and that is to use M mode along with an external, hand-held, light meter. Meter the light, set the aperture on the lens and the shutter on the camera. Open the aperture to focus and stop down for the exposure. Use those settings until either the light or the subject changes. You may notice that the stop-down metered settings sometimes don't work very well. That is due to some quirks in how stop-down metering is handled by the main exposure meter. The above steps work about the same in live view, but with much more consistent results. Steve

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11-01-2018, 08:52 AM	#3
pcrichmond Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bishop, CA Posts: 278	A couple of quick questions, does the lens have the A/M switch as @stevebrot mentioned or does it have the pin in the back? (If it has the pin this must be pushed in by the adapter or a work around.) Is your ISO set to auto? I don't have the K5 but on my K1 in TAv mode my meter will stay in the middle exposure no matter the shutter/fstop combo until the ISO is out of a parameter for the correct exposure. With this mode I can also adjust the meter/exposure with the EV button.

11-01-2018, 09:10 AM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by pcrichmond ...as @stevebrot mentioned or does it have the pin in the back? (If it has the pin this must be pushed in by the adapter or a work around.) All M42 lenses with an A/M switch have an aperture actuator pin on the back unless they have been surgically altered. The switch in the M position deactivates the pin. The opposite case does occur, however, where the lens has a pin, but no A/M switch. That is when a special adapter or surgical workaround is needed to provide a manual aperture. Note: A bit of clarification regarding the words "Auto" and "Manual" may be in order. In the context of lenses, "auto" usually refers to automatic aperture actuation at exposure time with manual referring to a lens that does not do this, but is stopped down all the time. This is in contrast to automated exposure systems and auto-focus where "auto" has different meanings. Originally posted by pcrichmond Is your ISO set to auto? You bring up an excellent point. The K-5 disallows auto-ISO in M mode, but allows it for stop-down metering in Av (other than M) mode. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-01-2018 at 09:21 AM.

11-01-2018, 09:50 AM	#5
Thagomizer Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: London Ontario Posts: 2,068	Given a particular amount of light, a camera's metering system will give a matching, particular exposure if it is on any of the automatic exposure settings. The response is programmed into the system. At a given ISO, there are a number of combinations of aperture and shutter speed which allow the same amount of light into the camera, all of which will give identical exposures. So on a bright, sunny day with your camera set to ISO 100, the following settings will result in identical exposures: 1/100 sec at f16, 1/200 sec. at f11, 1/400 sec. at f8, 1/800 sec. at f5.6, 1/1600 sec at f5.6, etc. While these are all identical exposures, they are not going to be identical photographs. The depth of field and rendering of moving objects will change with aperture and shutter speed respectively. The "correct" combination to use will depend on what you want to do with things like depth of field and capturing moving subjects. With your M42 lenses, your camera is going to give you the same exposure if it is set on AV, or TAV in a given lighting condition. That's what the automatic exposure system is supposed to do. The viewfinder will darken as you go from f5.6 to f8 (because of the lack of automatic diaphragm that you would have if you were to use a K mount lens instead of M42), but the camera will use either a slower shutter speed (in AV) or a higher ISO (in TAV) to compensate for the reduction in light caused by the smaller aperture to keep the exposure the same. To lighten or darken the image captured, you have to change the exposure to increase or decrease the amount of light reaching the sensor. Using the over or under exposure control is one way you can lighten or darken your image. Using the M manual setting is another. The camera shoots at what you choose to set it rather than what it would be choosing automatically. Using the exposure compensation is probably easier to do on the fly. If you're happy with a particular setting's results and the light on your subject does not change, you don't have to change anything to keep getting that level of exposure.

11-01-2018, 01:57 PM	#6
pcrichmond Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bishop, CA Posts: 278	Originally posted by stevebrot All M42 lenses with an A/M switch have an aperture actuator pin on the back unless they have been surgically altered. The switch in the M position deactivates the pin. The opposite case does occur, however, where the lens has a pin, but no A/M switch. That is when a special adapter or surgical workaround is needed to provide a manual aperture. A nice bit of information and thanks. None of my M42 lenses have the A/M switch (all 3rd party), so this will be good to know for future purchases. I have a couple with pin only (can be a pain for focusing) and a few more with dual aperture rings & no pin or switch. The latter I find easier to work with though I know there are others who prefer a simpler method of closing down. Thanks again.

11-01-2018, 02:20 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by pcrichmond None of my M42 lenses have the A/M switch (all 3rd party), so this will be good to know for future purchases. I have a couple with pin only (can be a pain for focusing) and a few more with dual aperture rings & no pin or switch. The latter I find easier to work with though I know there are others who prefer a simpler method of closing down. There are plenty of non-Ashahi M42 lenses with an A/M switch. I have quite a few. The only ones on my shelf that don't are either auto-aperture (with pin) from countries of the former Soviet Union and/or have a preset aperture, meaning that they may be manually switched to a preset aperture and back open with a switch, push-pull ring, or second stop-down ring. I agree that the preset aperture works very well with Pentax dSLRs. Steve

11-02-2018, 07:12 AM	#8
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Is it fair to say that any such lens with the A/M switch (regardless of it's actual mount), when in the M position will require camera operation as if it were an M42 lens, and when in the A position then camera operation is as if it were an SMC K or M type?

11-02-2018, 09:49 AM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mcgregni Is it fair to say that any such lens with the A/M switch (regardless of it's actual mount), when in the M position will require camera operation as if it were an M42 lens, and when in the A position then camera operation is as if it were an SMC K or M type? ...sort of... On a Pentax dSLR, auto aperture actuation is supported for most* K and M-series lenses in M, X, and B modes. In other than those modes, the lens aperture remains full-open regardless of the lens setting. For adapted lenses with the A/M switch, auto aperture actuation is never supported with the responsibility for stop-down falling to the operator. The availability of auto aperture actuation is a huge factor in favor of K-mount over adapted vintage lenses. Steve * Not all K-mount lenses support auto aperture actuation and don't have the aperture actuator lever. A common example would be perspective control lenses. It should also be noted that K-mount lenses with a non-conductive base may also not stop-down with Pentax dSLRs.

11-02-2018, 10:03 AM	#10
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Thanks Steve, I've got a Tamron Adaptall (CT135) with adaptor, and I use this with the switch set to M for macro work with basic tubes (no contacts), so very handy indeed as a high quality budget option. On the camera directly with A set on the lens I can use the green button stop down metering approach in M mode, just like with my M series lens. Its like two lenses in one!

11-02-2018, 10:25 AM	#11
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mcgregni Thanks Steve, I've got a Tamron Adaptall (CT135) with adaptor, and I use this with the switch set to M for macro work with basic tubes (no contacts), so very handy indeed as a high quality budget option. On the camera directly with A set on the lens I can use the green button stop down metering approach in M mode, just like with my M series lens. Its like two lenses in one! That is cool! I had forgotten that original Adaptall lenses had an A/M switch and with the K-mount adapter would provide the best of both worlds. Steve

11-04-2018, 06:53 AM	#12
dipo 1 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 374 Original Poster	Ask and ye shall receive. Thanks everyone who answered my question, as always you are the best. Will digest the above and hope it will sink in. Thanks again dipo 1

11-08-2018, 01:42 PM	#13
dipo 1 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 374 Original Poster	dipo 1 here, I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, so here i go. I'm use to my old Spotmatic SLR and when you turn on (?) the light meter you get an analog pointer in the viewfinder, move the f stop ring until you get the pointer centered, and take a picture. If the pointer would not center I would change shutter speed to get the right exposure. Now, I understand that in Av and TAv mode or full auto you don't have to fiddle (?) with settings. I would like to shoot in manual mode whenever possible, however I don't know where to set the f stop/exposure/shutter speed. With the K5 how do I know when proper exposure or shutter speed are at the right setting to get the best picture, in manual mode. Do I set the picture up, and then push the green button and shoot away. Using the old spot I knew when I was at the right exposure because of the needle, with the K5 I'm missing something and not sure I know what or how. I take pictures now by how dark the viewfinder is not by looking at a setting. Just use to that damn needle.

11-09-2018, 01:13 PM	#15
dipo 1 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 374 Original Poster	Thanks Steve that is much more illuminating and less confusing. I just cannot seem to get myself into the digital world. K5 is confusing but will continue to soldier on to learn it well. Please God don't ask me to do something on my I phone.