Originally posted by Kozlok I have, and use, the 18-135. Im not a hater. I quite like the 18-135. The 16-85 or any of the 16/17-50’s are better. Images are more pleasant, and I can tell the difference in the corners. No, it’s not huge, but the OP said he wanted WOW.
The 16-85 and 16/17-50’s are terrible from 50/85-135 though.
Those give up shooting 85-135 for the images it works for, anything centre sharp with an out of focus back ground and who walk around with nothing to take those kinds of images. I understand, some people want whatever their version of perfect is or nothing. SO be happy with your nothing.
What's the difference between an 85mm image with an out of focus back ground and a 135mm image with an out of focus back ground? 50mm.
We all decide what's important to us and go with that. Some people really don't have the discipline to take the lens off the camera when it's not appropriate to the subject. I get that. I shoot snapshots at any FL using this lens, for excellent images with print potential I shoot to the lenses strengths and change to small primes when I need better. But I have to know my gear to do that. The 18-135 has excellent centre sharpness at 135 and all through it's range More measured excellence at more focal lengths than any other lens. Some of us can work with that, some us can't. But it's sad when people blame a lens that is measured either excellent or very near excellent in 19 of 54 metrics (35%). The 16-85 is excellent or near excellent in 16 of 45, (35.5%) I get it, you can work with one, not with the other. I tend to think of that as a skill level kind of thing, not a lens kind of thing. But also on how much you use the extra each.
Someone who is very heavily influenced in their judgement by knowing which lens is which, is going to make those kinds of judgements. And someone who doesn't use the lens to it's strengths is going to have similar issues. The lens can't change your biases, nor can it teach you how to get the most out of it. It's just glass, metal and plastic, About 20% of my images are taken at 135mm. Every one of those images would be worse, taken with the 16-85. I'd give up a lot of images using a 16-85. You choose to forgo those images, I don't, nuf said.
So when are you going to show us this 16-85 "wow"?
You say you've got it, but no one knows what you mean by "wow."
You seem to me like one of those guys who can't evaluate an image without pixel peeping. which is totally irrelevant to 3840 by 2160 images. (You did read what the thread was about didn't you.) That kind of "wow" doesn't impress me much. You can't tell if an image "works" pixel peeping. I suspect your "wow" is much different than my "wow/" I've seen many razor sharp images taken by folks with deep pockets, that didn't work for me as an image. I've seen many images with soft borders that were less than technically perfect that did. The 16-85 can give you things the 18-135 can't, the 18-135 can give you things the 16-85 can't. The imagined conflict between the two is based on different values. Not one lens being spectacularly better than the other. IN the future perhaps, tell us why you like the lens and forget the part where you trash other people's gear. Your preference is a values call, not held up by the numbers.
And I'd take either of them off the camera to use one of my primes or a DA*/DFA* zoom, so there's no real advantage in terms of sharpness. You still have better in your bag, no matter which you choose. You are nit picking mid level lenses, based on very similar IQ.
My advice for these two lenses is, forget the user biases (including mine). Buy the focal length that best suits you. Slightly better IQ in some cases, for less versatility in some cases. 16-18 or 85-135. They were both designed to fill the same niche, slightly better than kit, not up to DA* standards. It's shouldn't be that hard.
Last edited by normhead; 11-13-2018 at 08:15 AM.