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03-01-2019, 03:52 PM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I have found that my old screw mount 55mm f1.8 delivers excellent results on my Pentax DSLR cameras. As to the new D FA 50mm f1.4 lens I do not think that it is worth the cost. It is big and heavy and it is not 4 times better than other Pentax 50mm f1.4 lenses. Plus it has no aperture ring! Something I still like to see on a lens.


Why buy a $2,000 camera and put old lenses on it? Because some of the old lenses can still deliver. The extra dynamic range and resolution of the K1 also allows much better post processing options. I own a K5, K5-IIs, K3, K1 and K1-II and it was not until I got the K1 that I stopped missing film. To me, a sample size of one, neither the K5's or K3 delivered images that I considered any improvement over film. They are not bad cameras, but there was no WOW factor until I got my first K1.
I can't agree more. I've recently started using a good old Tamron SP 17mm and it delivers a reasonable quality when I'm shooting interior and people (low and wide). This lens is very sufficient until my budget allows purchasing a new wide-angle lens.

03-01-2019, 04:44 PM - 1 Like   #47
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I'll play...

I actually do have my "emergency in case I obtain a FF camera" kit... and it's full of Tamron Adaptall-2's!

Even though I'm shooting only APS-C (K-3 II, K-S2, K-01) the following lenses impressed me due to good edge performance, which leads me to believe they will be decent on a FF sensor:

Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B/151B) - its sharpness is OK - not great - when stopped down a bit, but the corner-to-corner performance is consistent. Peak sharpness is kit-lens like, but the corners are better than the DA 16-45, Tamron 17-50/2.8, or even the DA 15 Ltd. The lens also can produce surprisingly rich color with medium contrast, which IMO provides an organic touch to the images. Generally available for under $200.

Tamron SP 24-48mm F/3.5-3.8 Model 13A - this lens is sharp edge-to-edge and is generally good throughout its range. Saturation and contrast are middling, and at the long end images are dull unless stopped down. Aberrations are well-controlled for an older lens. It really shines at 24mm. Generally available for under $200.

Tamron SP 35-80mm F/2.8-3.8 Model 01A - I think this is the sharpest zoom I've ever used. I've had 3 copies of the vaunted F 35-70 - and I still have two of 'em - and this lens is sharper. It's something of a cult classic. It's sharp everywhere, pleasing color and contrast, and has near-macro focus. Generally available for under $100.

Tamron SP 70-210mm F/3.5 Model 19AH - This lens is sharp all over, except for at 210mm f/3.5, and even then it's not bad. It's noticeably sharper than the F 70-210, the color and contrast are just as good (IMO) and is significantly sharper on the edges. It also has near-macro focus. Generally available for under $100.

Honorary mention - Tamron Adaptall-2 24mm F/2.5 Model 01BB. The edges never get that sharp, but the center is good wide open. It's very nice for shooting things. One downside is the out-of-focus rendering is not that good. Generally available for under $100.

All of these lenses are susceptible to flare, moreso than their SMC Pentax counterparts. But they are generally enjoyable to use and are fine lenses... if you get a good sample. That's one of the challenges when buying a legacy lens, we don't know if there has been abuse or things have perhaps drifted out of spec just from use.

Oh, for a long tele I'd recommend the SMC Pentax-A 400mm F5.6 or Tamron SP 400mm F/4.0 LD-IF Model 65B. The Pentax is my favorite lens ever, not overly large or heavy, a joy to handle and sharp. The one bugaboo is that CA can be a bit strong. I use it for birds and beasts and butterflies. The Tamron is faster, sharper and has less CA, but its also larger, heavier and doesn't handle as nicely... but it's a very fine lens.

Last edited by luftfluss; 03-01-2019 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Added links
03-01-2019, 07:36 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, I disagree.

It probably doesn't make a great deal of sense to buy a $2k camera and shoot only inexpensive legacy glass, as the full capabilities of that camera likely won't be realised. So, yes, I think it's a good idea to buy one or more very good lenses in order to maximise the potential of an expensive body, if you can afford to. But it doesn't mean we can't shoot beautiful, appealing images on that same camera with more limited optical instruments.

I'm fortunate to have some very decent glass in K-mount and A-mount for my various cameras, but I get just as much enjoyment - and just as many good photos - using low-cost vintage glass. And I've seen some fantastic photography - much better than I'm capable of - taken with the humble M50/1.7 and other inexpensive optics...
I agree.

For a total budget of say $2800, one can either get:

1) a KP ($800) plus just two modern $1000 lenses.
2) a K-1ii ($2000) with probably 5 to 8 legacy lenses in the $50, $100, maybe $150 range.

Obviously, it's a personal choice but I'd pick the more advanced camera with the larger lens portfolio even if it means giving up the latest coatings, fast/quiet AF, WR, and wide-open sharpness. Those old lenses -- with a bit of care about flare and aperture -- can still take some really nice images that fully justify using the higher-resolution FF body.
03-01-2019, 08:00 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
I just don't understand photographers who want to put $100 lenses on a $2,000 camera.

If you can afford a $2,000 camera system, and want a great 50mm K mount lens, just spend $997 and get the outstanding Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 lens
I wouldn't buy a 70" 4k television with a 7.2 surround system and then connect it to a VCR to watch old home videos. But if someone wants to do that, it is their time and money...


If someone wants to spend 2k on a body and then buy bargain lenses, that is their business.. But I'd hope they wouldn't complain about the camera body outputting poor IQ. Just like I'm not going to complain if put budget tires on my car and then wonder why it doesn't handle as well as it did with higher end tires...

03-01-2019, 08:08 PM - 4 Likes   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I wouldn't buy a 70" 4k television with a 7.2 surround system and then connect it to a VCR to watch old home videos. But if someone wants to do that, it is their time and money...


If someone wants to spend 2k on a body and then buy bargain lenses, that is their business.. But I'd hope they wouldn't complain about the camera body outputting poor IQ. Just like I'm not going to complain if put budget tires on my car and then wonder why it doesn't handle as well as it did with higher end tires...
I'm consistently amazed at the "newer must be better", "old must be terrible", and "the higher the cost the better it must be" approach to life. The output from my pristine F35-70 (even if it cost me $25 instead of $700+) is outstanding. I've never found that more expensive lenses make me a better photographer, but then I've only been at this about 40 years......
03-01-2019, 08:27 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I'm consistently amazed at the "newer must be better", "old must be terrible", and "the higher the cost the better it must be" approach to life. The output from my pristine F35-70 (even if it cost me $25 instead of $700+) is outstanding. I've never found that more expensive lenses make me a better photographer, but then I've only been at this about 40 years......
If it works for your art, it works for your art.

Though sometimes the newer offers features that aid in ones pursuits. There is a reason why we aren't still buying cumbersome film bodies with lower resolving, manual focus lenses from 50 years ago with no auto drive.... well, why the market has changed since then to what we have now. The new products make photography a lot easier to perform. And that has been appealing commercially..


Same way with old cars. no fuel injection, no airbags, no cruise control, maybe no air conditioner... those things aren't necessary but they do make the daily experience easier for the many. Even if you're an old car person, you have to admit the new technologies are beneficial in general.


But length of time in a craft doesn't inherently make one more skilled at it.. that just sounds like chest pounding.
03-01-2019, 08:33 PM - 2 Likes   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
If it works for your art, it works for your art.

Though sometimes the newer offers features that aid in ones pursuits. There is a reason why we aren't still buying cumbersome film bodies with lower resolving, manual focus lenses from 50 years ago with no auto drive.... well, why the market has changed since then to what we have now. The new products make photography a lot easier to perform. And that has been appealing commercially..


Same way with old cars. no fuel injection, no airbags, no cruise control, maybe no air conditioner... those things aren't necessary but they do make the daily experience easier for the many. Even if you're an old car person, you have to admit the new technologies are beneficial in general.


But length of time in a craft doesn't inherently make one more skilled at it.. that just sounds like chest pounding.
Funny, I shot a K1000 yesterday while driving my '67 Mustang........ah, simplicity.
03-01-2019, 08:58 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Funny, I shot a K1000 yesterday while driving my '67 Mustang........ah, simplicity.
Enjoy!

03-02-2019, 05:53 AM - 3 Likes   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
I just don't understand photographers who want to put $100 lenses on a $2,000 camera.

If you can afford a $2,000 camera system, and want a great 50mm K mount lens, just spend $997 and get the outstanding Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 lens
Excellent point.....but I also see the thread starter's point as well....Value equals image quality over cost. Many Leica owners do the same thing. Take the high IQ of the camera and get the best value (i.e., Voitglander 50mm 1.1 for $900 vs. Leica 50mm .95 at $7,000). The image quality is excellent and you save $$.

Now I vote for the SIGMA 28mm f2.8 manual focus lens--a pure legacy but fast and a clean copy won't cost you more than $50.00...as good or better than the current AF crop of primes sans the FA f1.4 touted by Fenwood......

Here are two pics of the same scene taken with the K-1:
1. SIGMA 28mm f2.8 A-Series ($50.00)
2. SIGMA 15-30mm f3.5-4.5 ($780.00)

Are there differences? Sure-the 15-30mm is sharper as the 15-30mm has better balance and sharpness, but it's really subtle, isn't it and what's nice is, it gives an older lens new life and with the excellent focus peaking on the K-1 series, using manual mode on these A-series lenses is easy--like being back in 1975 snapping with a needle match system.

Anyway, my point is a "value" lens may have as much or more quality than an expensive newer version....take the extra savings and put it to good use somewhere else and enjoy your photography.
Attached Images
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PENTAX K-1  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 

Last edited by Merv-O; 03-02-2019 at 05:55 AM. Reason: typos
03-02-2019, 06:09 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I'm consistently amazed at the "newer must be better", "old must be terrible", and "the higher the cost the better it must be" approach to life. The output from my pristine F35-70 (even if it cost me $25 instead of $700+) is outstanding. I've never found that more expensive lenses make me a better photographer, but then I've only been at this about 40 years......
I would certainly echo that sentiment. In my own case, I don't have a collection of old lenses, and I never was tempted to acquire any, because I didn't want to have to monkey with adapters. Seems to me that the more complicated the attachment systems get, the more likely it becomes that one will experience mechanical failures. And it's one more think to have to think about, and given the relatively enormous change in the complexity of the camera here in the new Digital Age of the Future, well, who needs it?
03-02-2019, 06:16 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
I would certainly echo that sentiment. In my own case, I don't have a collection of old lenses, and I never was tempted to acquire any, because I didn't want to have to monkey with adapters. Seems to me that the more complicated the attachment systems get, the more likely it becomes that one will experience mechanical failures. And it's one more think to have to think about, and given the relatively enormous change in the complexity of the camera here in the new Digital Age of the Future, well, who needs it?
DLH; I posted just above you and used no adapter...The A-series lens snaps right onto the K-1 and stays in manual mode....the K-1 keeps it in F2.8 so you can slow the shutter speed down...really great deal for a 28mm prime lens that has nice sharpness. the wonder of the Pen tax system is after all, the compatibility of virtually every K-lens made.
03-02-2019, 07:59 AM   #57
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It's not necessarily the cost of new glass, but the size & weight of some of it. I don't want to walk round with a 50/1.4 that weighs nearly a kilo or a huge 15-30/2.8* - I'd prefer to use my 645D or P67 if I was carting that bulk & weight about. I don't shoot action and don't have any need for focus motors in lenses or electro-magnetic apertures. I'd prefer small & compact primes with screwdrive and aperture rings which also work perfectly well on all my film bodies (the FA35/2 HD update is a step in the right direction). IQ is only one measure of a lens, some have unique characters that can make or break the image.

* Edit: They could at least have made the 15-30/2.8 focus the same way as pretty much every other Pentax lens...

Last edited by johnha; 03-02-2019 at 08:05 AM.
03-02-2019, 08:24 AM - 4 Likes   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I wouldn't buy a 70" 4k television with a 7.2 surround system and then connect it to a VCR to watch old home videos. But if someone wants to do that, it is their time and money...


If someone wants to spend 2k on a body and then buy bargain lenses, that is their business.. But I'd hope they wouldn't complain about the camera body outputting poor IQ. Just like I'm not going to complain if put budget tires on my car and then wonder why it doesn't handle as well as it did with higher end tires...
That analogy doesn't really work in this case.

Legacy lenses aren't like VCRs in their IQ. Many can totally out-resolve the K-1's sensor, deliver rich rendering, and create beautiful images indistinguishable from those created by the newest lenses.

Instead, legacy lenses are more like old broadcast-studio equipment bought on the cheap at a surplus equipment auction. That old equipment may be harder to use than the newest equipment and lack all the convenient features of the new equipment but with a little effort, the output can take full advantage of that 70" display.


No doubt, there are some types of photographs and photography that depend wide-open sharpness, edge-to-edge performance, low-flare in back-lit conditions, fast AF, WR, etc. But those are niche conditions more so than something required for the majority of images. Thus, legacy lenses let a photographer create high-IQ images in the majority of imaging conditions. For 10% of the cost of new (plus some extra effort on the photographer's part), legacy lenses can get a proverbial 80% of the shots.
03-02-2019, 02:25 PM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I wouldn't buy a 70" 4k television with a 7.2 surround system and then connect it to a VCR to watch old home videos. But if someone wants to do that, it is their time and money...
Eh, a lot of people buy in this times phonograph, because for audiophiles sound from it is better, because remastering sound for digital cut off details make subtle difference which is called by them "true sound".

In today standards a lot of legacy lens are out, but when you stop and think more about it they have a lot of unique features. The most of them are tiny and easy to use when travelling because of small weight and dimensions. For legend is 77 limited which is poor lens in today standards, because it not have motor, AW/WR sealing, sharpness from edge to edge, purple fringering and noisy focusing. But compare 50/1.4 AW Pentax to them when you go to mountain and walking all day long. What can you do with this small monster it is amazing... You can put in on the jacket and when you put on K1 you do not feel weight.

Photography is the art of seeing and not buying stuff. A lot of people think that camera does matter. It is nonsense! At the same lens really does not matter if you can not compose correct your photo and you can not take advantage with what the simplest DSLR tool give you. I see people buying camera with kit and it is all. We are speaking about how get inexpensive tool for learning and making good IQ for resonable price.

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
For 10% of the cost of new (plus some extra effort on the photographer's part), legacy lenses can get a proverbial 80% of the shots.
I have the same opinion. This lens are amazing for learning. Experience with manual focusing on Pentax 50/1.7 M I use a lot on my limited. Sometimes my body can not focus on subject. Last weeks I take shot on extreme low light condition when F1.8 get me 1/10s on 256000 ISO. Sometimes you have to switch off auto modes to start thinking when is necessary and how it affect your final image.
03-03-2019, 08:07 PM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
And no camera or lens is so bad that a competent photographer can't get good results with it.
That is the key...
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