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03-01-2019, 05:42 PM   #1
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Lied to about condition of lens on Ebay help!

Not sure what to do, but I am very unhappy and disappointed that I was lied to about the condition of the lens I brought that I was very excited to try out. Can anyone identify what is underneath the front element, and give me advice on what I should do. The lens also has a scratch on the front element. Here are photos of the lens I used my S8+ as a flashlight shining the light underneath the back element. I took one photo with the flash on. I have also included the listing of the lens that I was mislead into buying.

Here's another lens from a different seller I was mislead into believing was in Excellent ++++ condition. They said no scratches. The flashlight determined that was a lie. I contacted them, and they said they wouldn't give me a full refund they said to send the lens back to them.


Last edited by Prince Harbinger; 03-12-2019 at 02:26 PM.
03-01-2019, 06:00 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Is the seller someone with a feedback / reputation they need to protect on Ebay? If so, then you can let them know you intend to leave negative feedback unless you can return the item. You might have to pay the return shipping.
03-01-2019, 06:01 PM - 5 Likes   #3
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You can simply request a return via EBay with the reason " Item was not as described" and attached your pictures to backup your claim. EBay will step in and help you with the return.
03-01-2019, 06:17 PM - 2 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
Can anyone identify what is underneath the front element,
Looks like fungus etched glass that has been cleaned. May or may not be worth keeping depending on what you paid.
Regardless, should qualify for 'not as described' should you wish to return.

03-01-2019, 06:17 PM - 1 Like   #5
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Your disappointment seems warranted.

The mottled foggy appearance seems to be a haze on at least one element. I can't say what might have caused the haze, and it's not obvious that the condition could be remedied. Depending on how much you value the lens, you could take a chance and have it serviced for cleaning, which may or may not be effective.

I would guess that this flaw would not have been seen in the images of the lens that the seller provided in the listing. Even in a front-to-rear view through the wide open aperture against a white background, such a haze might be hard to see. It's certainly seen in your 'flashlight test'. I have sold a couple of lenses having a slight haze on parts of an element, always with full disclosure, description and photos. The flaws were not easily seen on a casual inspection, and required a bright light at certain angles to reveal the issue. In your case, the seller might not have conducted such a flashlight inspection, but still described the item as in "excellent" condition.

I believe that I have found the item on eBay. The seller has a 99.7% positive feedback on more than 2200 transactions. I would suggest that you contact the seller, explain your dissatisfaction, include your pictures, and request a refund. The eBay listing indicates a 30-day return and return shipping at the buyer's expense. However, I think you would be justified to request that the seller cover the return shipping owing to the inaccurate description that did not represent the item properly. If informal discussions do not provide an acceptable recourse, then open a case with eBay.

Last edited by c.a.m; 03-01-2019 at 06:39 PM.
03-01-2019, 06:44 PM - 2 Likes   #6
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if it is the lens that c.a.m. viewed, with that reported feed back rating, I agree, communicate with the seller and see what is possible with the seller first.

if you cannot reach an agreement, then go the formal route.

I don't know if there is a time limit however
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in the future, you might want to consider looking for equipment in the forum's market place " buy/sell ". I don't sell there but I have had good luck in getting " experienced " equipment from other members there

you can sort it to show the location of the items for sale:

The Pentax Marketplace | Buy & Sell Pentax Cameras and Lenses (United States) - PentaxForums.com

good luck
03-01-2019, 07:24 PM   #7
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Thanks everyone for all the advice. It's very much appreciated. I'm thinking it is not fungus, but I'm not 100% sure it is fungus. I think he may have sprayed a cleaning agent on the front element, and the condensation left residue when it dryed up from whatever chemical he used. I probably could clean the element after opening with a spanner wrench with a lens pen. If that doesn't work than perhaps I could clean it with peroxide. I also updated the post with another purchase that I was burned by this week. Check the new photos.
03-01-2019, 08:25 PM - 1 Like   #8
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It's possible that someone used canned air when cleaning the lens and tilted the spray can, spraying out some propellant. It can be cleaned off but if it wasn't noted there in the description then you have a valid reason for a return.
I've had nothing but excellent dealings with high feedback sellers from Japan. It seems something went wrong here. Perhaps an employee messed up?
I suggest mentioning it to the seller first, but if you want to go for a refund do it through ebay, and only through ebay. They are set up for it, it helps with any language difficulties, and it carries more clout with the seller. Once you start it do everything ebay's way. Good luck!

03-01-2019, 11:01 PM - 1 Like   #9
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I just got a lens myself that has haze and scratches on the front element that was supposed to be "clean front optics". If you're fine with whatever issues it has then try to get a price cut, otherwise make sure you issue a "not as described" and get a FULL refund.

I've been getting burned a lot on ebay lately, and it's pissing me off.
03-01-2019, 11:16 PM - 1 Like   #10
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When you open a case with eBay you are encouraged to resolve with the seller during the process of the case - it's part of the case - there is no harm in opening the case. If you come to terms you agree to them and that's that. If you can't eBay can arbitrate based on the data you provide and your complaint. If you already made an overture, and were rebuked - open the case. Both of those are caseworthy. I have had multiple sellers try to stiff me over time and I have won every single case I opened (2 or 3 I think) and in the other cases the sellers knew they had screwed up and offered terms that were acceptable to me and we settled without a case. Most of the time all goes well there but not as often as here (100% satisfaction for me and far more camera gear bought here than there).
03-02-2019, 05:45 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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What to do about internet fraud

1. First thing, keep in mind that you have sixty days from the date of the statement on which your credit card charge appears within which to file a written complaint with the card issuer. Nonreceipt of goods is a standard reason, and you apparently never received the lens that was advertised. The fact that you got A lens but not THE lens is critical - those are clearly two different things. Of course the lens that was advertised probably never actually existed. So call the card issuer and ask them how you can get the affidavit form they need to back out the transaction. If it was issued by a local bank, stroll into the branch and pick up the form there. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE THEIR FORM. A written statement explaining the facts, dated and signed will be sufficient. See 15 U.S. Code  1666 (code section available at: [url]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1666[url]).

2. You probably have the right to cancel the transaction under the laws of the state in which you live by a procedure called "revocation of acceptance". It's a provision of the Uniform Commercial Code that is probably enacted everywhere in the U.S. If you're going to cancel the credit card transaction, it's a good idea to do revocation of acceptance first. That way, it's as if there never was a contract between you and the seller, and his retention of your money after notice of revocation is fraudulent.

3. When someone does business over the internet he is subjecting himself both to the laws of the state in which he resides as well as the state in which the target consumer resides. You could probably file a suit in your local small claims court (assuming that there is one) and plead your case without lawyers or legal mumbo-jumbo. It's a clear case of fraud, and you may have consumer protection act remedies as well. Important thing is you have to actually know whom you were doing business with - you can file suit against "Person or persons unknown doing business as 'Who Flung Poo", subject to your doing a subsequent motion to change the name of the defendant - that gives you an opportunity to subpoena people who might have the information you need, such as EBay. Without the true and correct name of the defendant on the final order granting you relief, you will never be able to collect.

4. Cautionary note: if the terms and conditions you signed up for when you subscribed to EBay state that any transaction arising out of the use of their system must be brought in the place where EBay's principal office is located (for Paypal, it's Santa Clara, CA, if I recall correctly), then there may be room for argument that you're not allowed to bring suit anywhere else. That's subject to legal attack several different ways, but it's more complicated than the average photographer can deal with (e.g., whether the contract with EBay has anything to do with your contract with the seller). (Which raises an ancillary question: how did we allow our legal system to get so balled up that the average citizen can't understand it?) On the other hand, they probably won't show up for trial, much less make that arguement, in which case you win if you can show proper service of process.

By the way, if the transaction involved the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, it's probably a criminal violation as well, particularly mail fraud.

Note: I am a retired attorney, which means I am no longer licensed to practice law or give legal advice. I'm merely giving my opinions about what the law says about this kind of case, and not suggesting that it applies to your facts. Best to consult a consumer protection attorney who is licensed to practice where you live.

Last edited by Unregistered User; 03-02-2019 at 05:58 AM.
03-02-2019, 07:54 AM   #12
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Sorry to hear about your problem. I am very surprised that this happened with a Japanese seller. I have made many purchases from Japanese sellers and have found them to be very good and they pride themselves on their reputation.
03-02-2019, 09:48 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
I contacted them, and they said they wouldn't give me a full refund they said to send the lens back to them.
I'm not sure what you expect here...a full refund without sending it back?

Whether ebay arbitrates or not, the best you can expect is a return for full refund. Personally I would try the lens and if it works ok for me I would ask the seller to give a partial refund based on a 'fair' condition rather than the advertised 'excellent'. But if they're not willing then yes, you need to send it back and they need to refund you in full (including return postage). But ensure you raise a case with ebay whatever, so that it's all recorded.
03-02-2019, 10:54 AM - 1 Like   #14
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@dlh Thanks for all your helpful knowledge. I'd like to thank everyone else for all of their helpful suggestions. The support in this forum is incredible.

Both sellers have refused to refund me claiming that it must have happened through shipping. I highly doubt that. Contacting Ebay for a refund is a nightmare. I have just contacted Paypal, and they said that they opened up a dispute for both sellers. That they will give them until the 13th to respond. If they don't respond no questions asked I'll be refunded. Hopefully all goes smoothly, and I'm able to get my money back from these dishonest sellers. Wish I knew of some camera convention shows in South Jersey. Tired of not getting what is advertised. I rather inspect the glass myself.

Last edited by Prince Harbinger; 03-02-2019 at 11:25 AM.
03-02-2019, 11:41 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
Both sellers have refused to refund me claiming that it must have happened through shipping.
Shipping damage is also their responsibility. All that matters is that it didn't arrive in the condition described.
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