[BruceBanner]

Thanks for being so detailed in the response. Based on your chart alone I've settled on nearly the exact same workflow. including separate folders from each shoot titled "for PS processing", and one for "processed TIFFs" separate from the RAW catalog from each session. Developed by trial and error in my case with error playing the most important part LOL.
Lacking the obvious talent you have for it of course so far more work needed there.

So very helpful sire, that puts me more at ease that there's no shame in getting a jump start from presets and LUTS

Not a problem.

Professionals make LUTS, for themselves and if they're good they sell them to people like me who have either not got the skill set to make their own, nor the time. $20 for a pack of 10 LUTS, seems reasonable from a professional outfit. One day I hope to have the time as well to make my own.
Some LUTS can seem a little crazy, but in the right genre they can be wonderful, for example these tones might not work so well for portrait but worked quite well for this shot;



RNI are experts in film simulation for digital, so if you use Pentax, use old lenses, their presets can do wonderfully to drive that vibe home. I think the trick is knowing your own presets and LUTS (that takes time) and then going out and shooting with those renders in mind (ie knowing what kind of look you want in your mind and knowing you can drive that message with what tools you have at home).

For me, photography is 80% tog + rendering skills and 20% gear. I could switch brands or systems here, pick up a K-01 or K-50 and still be putting out similar images, I bet no one would even notice I changed.

Funny to think how many users will happily spend thousands on new gear and yet still put out the same ol same, but the very thought of spending similar money to improve your PP skills is somehow heresy. I still have so many bought and paid for PP tutorials yet to watch, something I am looking forward to sinking my teeth into this holiday/2020.

[garywakeling]

Slightly off topic but I thought you might like to see the 18-35 FAJ on the K1 which I used last month in the single in challenge, nice focal range , light and just a little softness in the corners. Earlier on you said the DA 12-24 has quick shift is that correct?

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmJMEkKh

Cheers Gary

[BruceBanner]

Slightly off topic but I thought you might like to see the 18-35 FAJ on the K1 which I used last month in the single in challenge, nice focal range , light and just a little softness in the corners. Earlier on you said the DA 12-24 has quick shift is that correct?

Single in December 2019 SMC FAJ 18-35mm | Flickr

Cheers Gary

No thank you Gary for steering us back on course

Yes the DA 12-24 has quick shift.

I'll be sure to check out that album, thanks Gary!

[BruceBanner]

Also, saw this image today, another clear use of LUTS working really well (even shows you before and after);

Eleonora? ? on Instagram: ?Sally, before and after @luca.attolini #sony #takumar #takumar50mmf14 #sonya7 #dog #dogsofinstagram #doglover #animalslovers #labrador??

[Kameraten]

Ah but when you've already paid for one and it's in hand and does double duty on all your cameras without more cash outlay? Well I'm kinda with Bruce. The DA 12-24 is a really nice lens.

Ah but when you've already paid for one and it's in hand and does double duty on all your cameras without more cash outlay? Well I'm kinda with Bruce. The DA 12-24 is a really nice lens.

Not arguing at all, it's a nice lens and it's unique in that it's able to produce the same angle of view on APS-C and FF. But with good quality only around 19 mm on FF. The Vivitar I mentioned does 19-35 and it can be had for dirt cheap second-hand.

[steve_k]

What about the Sigma 12-24 full frame. That’s my uw on my K-1 II. They’re a little hard to come by but they pop up every couple of months.

[BruceBanner]

Not arguing at all, it's a nice lens and it's unique in that it's able to produce the same angle of view on APS-C and FF. But with good quality only around 19 mm on FF. The Vivitar I mentioned does 19-35 and it can be had for dirt cheap second-hand.

Is the Vivitar AF? That was a must for me, I already have some 24mm manual focus glass, I was really lacking something in this range for portrait use and needed AF (for flash as well).

What about the Sigma 12-24 full frame. That’s my uw on my K-1 II. They’re a little hard to come by but they pop up every couple of months.

Yes I have heard that is a good lens. Is it f4 or 2.8?

I doubt I'd pick it up, now that I have the DA 12-24, 20-24mm is actually the focal lengths I would be using it for the most for work.

-----------

Here's a couple more of the DA12-24 on K-1 in FF mode;

[Biff]

Fabulous shots with the 12-24. I haven't used mine much lately but like how it renders, you're inspiring me to use it more.

[beachgardener]

that group portrait in front of the house, have you thought of using a 35mm lens on the K-1? I reckon you'll be surprised with the results.

[BruceBanner]

that group portrait in front of the house, have you thought of using a 35mm lens on the K-1? I reckon you'll be surprised with the results.

What you don't see is where I am standing, I cannot back up further. There should be a reason why a photographer decides to use a certain focal length for the shot, if indeed fixed should move their person. This was of course not the only group shot of the day, 28mm, 31mm, 35mm, 43mm, they can all do great group portrait shots should the environment allow it. This being a 12-24 thread specifically relating to the K-1 in FF mode I wanted to show a shot, something that showed it's maximum range (this was pretty much as wide as you can go before vignette hits in bad). Portrait shots come in all shapes and sizes, some are about the people first and foremost, and the environment they are in definitely takes a back seat. Some are about the people and where they are, that too can hold immense value and perhaps with certain focal lengths (and constricted space) a 35mm would do that injustice. Which is why I tend to do more than one kind of group shot on the day, closer ones in, and some further back. I give the client a choice of which to choose (and they pay per shot) and they (thus far) always choose both $$



Using the HD DA 20-40 on the K-1 in FF mode I was set to 23mm. I felt I wanted to really include the entire group (far right women in blue as well), as well as include the whole of the tree. My vantage point for this shot was a large tree stump that I clambered up onto. Setting to 35mm for example would not have been a good choice for this shot. The same is true for the second shot below (taken again at 23mm);



The 35mm I am really gunning for is the FA31, however I am still waiting for Pentax Forums to do a review of the new HD FA35/2, and would even love a real head to head review of it against the FA31. There is also a Tak 35 however that I might grab as well, if its as good as its reputation suggests, group portrait work can often be stopped down anyway, so manual focusing might not be so intimidating if not using super wide apertures for those important paid shots.

Thanks.

[beachgardener]

some times a lens of 24 even maybe a 21 if both are well corrected lenses Ie. they are made that way, could be used in groups, but hard to find maybe voigtlander or zeiss. It will be interesting to see where Pentax goes with it's new line of D-FA* lenses some well made lenses in this focal length could be very useful.

[BruceBanner]

some times a lens of 24 even maybe a 21 if both are well corrected lenses Ie. they are made that way, could be used in groups, but hard to find maybe voigtlander or zeiss. It will be interesting to see where Pentax goes with it's new line of D-FA* lenses some well made lenses in this focal length could be very useful.

DFA 15-30 would be the obvious choice would it not? Man I just can't afford that lens...

[beachgardener]

DFA 15-30

I don't know enough about that lens, but good prime lenses are worth it.
The way I look at it is yes maybe a fun big group with extreme wide, but the rest of the shots are modified to suit the prime lenses available, creative people management, placement in surroundings with composition. Not every scene needs to have all the surroundings, each picture helps to tell the story, so yes that makes room for using the 35/31 and maybe a 50 also.
Anyway it is fun working it all out

[gatorguy]

DFA 15-30 would be the obvious choice would it not? Man I just can't afford that lens...

Between a Sigma 17-50 2.8 ( cheap but great performance on APS-C) and the 12-24 I have no reason to add the 15-30. Besides I can't really afford it either


Anyway, spent the entire morning shooting landscapes with the 12-24, short hike of 4.9 miles in just over 3 hours so very casual. I usually carry a prime telephoto and a macro when I do this, but darn happy with the shots I got today. This lens is much better than I gave it credit for.

As an aside I thought you already had the FA31. On APS-C I've not been overly impressed. Really nice imaging but not great IMO. I personally suspect the new HD FA35 will handily outpace it on even FF so not a bad idea to wait unless you stumble on a really cheap copy of the 31

[BruceBanner]

Between a Sigma 17-50 2.8 ( cheap but great performance on APS-C) and the 12-24 I have no reason to add the 15-30. Besides I can't really afford it either


Anyway, spent the entire morning shooting landscapes with the 12-24, short hike of 4.9 miles in just over 3 hours so very casual. I usually carry a prime telephoto and a macro when I do this, but darn happy with the shots I got today. This lens is much better than I gave it credit for.

As an aside I thought you already had the FA31. On APS-C I've not been overly impressed. Really nice imaging but not great IMO. I personally suspect the new HD FA35 will handily outpace it on even FF so not a bad idea to wait unless you stumble on a really cheap copy of the 31

Were you using the 12-24 on K-1 as well (ff mode)?

I hear a lot of people feeling indifferent about the 31 between the two bodies. I think that's because it tips over into two different 'genres'. On FF the 31 is the beginnings of being a wild angle, the start of a landscape lens, but also still portrait, on crop it becomes a more straight up portrait lens. The 31 on the K-1 becomes a super duper 'environmental portrait' lens, something that gets you the person and where they are in one shot (street photography etc), on crop not quite so much but instead concentrates to being a classic portrait (effectively behaving like a 46.5/2.7 FF portrait lens).

I firmly believe much of the goodness in lenses actually is at the edges, and with FF glass on crop bodies you're missing that. Someone I know recently bought a DFA50 for their K-70. I find that a perplexing buy indeed. Why the DFA costs so much in the first place is that the edges of the lens are sharp, yet on a crop body yer basically throwing away $$ by never taking advantage of that (you never see the true edge). I mean ok, maybe that sounds harsh, I mean they still get a nice fifty, AW, Quick Shift, Silent AF, good AF etc, but still... one of the major optical benefits of the lens is a FF FoV with really good edge sharpness at wide open apertures.
I feel similarly about the FA Ltds (and the Tak 50). Although not having sharp edges, there is wonderful magic happening throughout the frame, from centre to edges. Watch the magic disappear when you apply lens correction to a f2 shot with a FA ltd. Optically flawed glass? Yep, but with that flawness comes some beautiful rendering. I'm starting to believe you can't have it both ways, the DFA 50 is clinical and perfect, but I'm not feeling the magic quite so much, the FA ltds flawed but they do have magic. I'd prefer to use a DFA 50 for product photography however, you need that hardcore clinical perfection for that genre.
I only care about edge sharpness when it matters, I don't care if the edges are soft if there is not a primary focus there. A straight up centre portrait shot, who cares if the oof edges are sharp or soft?! In cases like this it's not important at all. Going back to @beachgardener recommendations for a 35mm, the Sigma 35/1.4 Art is probably the best 35mm for Pentax if considering edge sharpness is important (which it can be for groups if you're struggling to squeeze them into the frame and want good subject isolation).