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03-15-2019, 06:03 PM   #1
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DA12-24 on Full Frame

I gather this lens is actually compatible with the K-1 from around 16-24mm. That's kinda attractive being a KP/K-1 kinda guy. I could see me using it on both systems from time to time. What does seem to be hard to find however is the performance of the lens on the K-1 at 18-24mm, specifically comparing with a crop lens at equivalent ranges.

Example, tripod up the KP or K3, use the 12-24 at 12-16mm (equivalent to using at 18-24), take some shots (f4, f8 etc). Then take the KP/K3 off, put on the K-1 and use at 18mm-24mm, test at same apertures. The should both offer similar if not identical field of views, one 24mp the other 36mp. How do they compare? Sometimes when these lenses are ff they do poor, other times the additional resolution is welcome!

Anyone have this lens with a crop body and ff sensor to compare? Anyone just simply got ff shots with the 12-24 to share? It seems actually quite hard in the K-1 line up to get a lens from 18-24mm that is reasonably priced and has AF, which is part of my attraction to seeking out this lens in the future.


TIA!

Bruce

03-15-2019, 08:12 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Another option might be the original digital lens the FAJ 18-35 , coming from the film era to digital , it has coverage for full frame.
03-15-2019, 08:57 PM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by garywakeling Quote
Another option might be the original digital lens the FAJ 18-35 , coming from the film era to digital , it has coverage for full frame.
Yeah I thought of that, they are kinda hard to come by. I'd appreciate the consistent F4 across the frame, and by all accounts the 12-24 is sharp wide open at F4. Comparing with the FAJ 18-35 would be interesting to see. Of course the 12-24 has Quickshift as well, a nice touch.
03-15-2019, 11:01 PM   #4
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I have had a Pentax 12-24 for about 7-8 years.... that I've used to take countless pictures, mostly hot rods, vintage cars, sports cars and old motorcycles....also some family/friends pictures. All pics with this lens were while it was attached to either my K10D, Km or K5. This is a wonderful lens, sharp...almost 3D it seems sometimes. One of my favourite lenses of all time..or at least my time, which is about 50 years of photography.

I've got a K-1, have had for a over two years and I haven't tested it on my K-1. I've been happy with the 28-105, but sometimes I wished the wide angle end was just a little wider. I believe it (12-24) may function reasonably well from 18-24, but not sure as I haven't tried it.

I'm not sure of the conversion ASP-C\FF factors....ie; is the 18 ASP-C more like 27 mm on FF ? I do use ASP-C lenses like my 40 and 70 Limiteds...but with the K1 body set on FF, not ASP-C and I would set the K1 on FF with my 12-24.

This year for sure. I'll be interested in how it does. I'm not completely sure, but I think PF member Clackers may have some experience/knowledge about how the K1/12-24 works out.

03-16-2019, 01:03 AM   #5
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Just like lesmore49 guessed, it works ok from 18-24mm.

I am shooting it always with ff setting and cropping afterwards. The hood frames the photo nicely between 12-17mm so I'm leaving it on. Taking it away won't give any benefit because of the softness on the far corners, usable up from 18mm.
It's not stellar with K-1. But very nice on holiday trip photos.
03-16-2019, 02:26 AM   #6
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personally I don't have a K 1 or K 1 II, so I cannot offer personal experiences

but there is this article that might be of interest to the OP and others

__________________

Full Frame Coverage of DA Lenses: Comprehensive Test
Which DA lenses cover the full 24x36 mm frame?
By PF Staff in Gear Guides on Jan 7, 2019


Read more at: Full Frame Coverage of DA Lenses: Comprehensive Test - Gear Guides | PentaxForums.com

__________________________

" Based on our findings with these tables we rated the lenses from zero to three stars according to these criteria:

[ three stars ] Full coverage at all tested F-stops and all focal lengths

[ two stars ] Full coverage at some F-stop and focal length combinations

[ one star ] The lens can be used with reservations at select F-stop/focal length combinations. The main flaw is typically heavy vignetting and corner softness may also be present

[ minus sign ] No coverage at all

The DA 12-24mm zoom lens thus gets two stars according to our evaluation criteria. "


Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/gear-guides/full-frame-coverage-of-da-...#ixzz5iKEwGZN4

Last edited by aslyfox; 03-16-2019 at 02:32 AM.
03-16-2019, 06:26 AM   #7
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I agree that from 18 up it is usable. I lived with it that way for awhile, then bought a 15-30. Since then, I've hardly used the 12-24, though it might make sense if one wanted to pack light.
03-16-2019, 07:37 AM   #8
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I have a 12-24 and is a very nice lens on a crop sensor. I have the K-3 ( and other crop bodies) and K-1ii and have used the 12-24 on both crop and ‘full frame’. While you get full frame coverage on the K-1ii from 18-24 it is really only useful from 20-24 if you want to preserve decent edge sharpness. I rarely use that combination since I own the DFA 15-30 2.8 which is of course excellent.

01-01-2020, 02:33 AM - 4 Likes   #9
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I've since acquired the 12-24 and have been using it in FF mode on the K-1. Not bad at all, a few samples;







01-03-2020, 12:41 PM   #10
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I works around 19 mm, corners may get a little fuzzy. Another option is a Vivitar Series 1 19-35 mm f3,5-4,5. Doesn't look like a quality lens but it actually holds it's own against the 12-24 and has a nicer bokeh.
01-03-2020, 01:15 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
I works around 19 mm, corners may get a little fuzzy. Another option is a Vivitar Series 1 19-35 mm f3,5-4,5. Doesn't look like a quality lens but it actually holds it's own against the 12-24 and has a nicer bokeh.
Ah but when you've already paid for one and it's in hand and does double duty on all your cameras without more cash outlay? Well I'm kinda with Bruce. The DA 12-24 is a really nice lens.

01-03-2020, 01:20 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I've since acquired the 12-24 and have been using it in FF mode on the K-1. Not bad at all, a few samples;






Bruce, I've seen you post up images before similar in feel to that first one that look to be variations on a specific collection of LR settings. Are you starting out with a certain preset and adjusting it to the scene as required? I love the soft hazy look you give some of your shots, which typically are compelling images anyway if you don't mind my saying. You're quite good.
01-03-2020, 02:17 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I've since acquired the 12-24 and have been using it in FF mode on the K-1. Not bad at all, a few samples;






Very nice.
01-03-2020, 03:29 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
I works around 19 mm, corners may get a little fuzzy. Another option is a Vivitar Series 1 19-35 mm f3,5-4,5. Doesn't look like a quality lens but it actually holds it's own against the 12-24 and has a nicer bokeh.
Got any samples of that lens for us to have a peek at? Really I couldn't say no to this deal I scored for the 12-24. It goes for over $1K(AUD) new and I got a mint copy (basically used a handful of times) for only $400AUD. I have the KP as well so knew that if the results were less than stella on the K-1 then the KP would still have a friend.

What I really like about using Crop lenses on FF mode (if you can get away with it) is that the DoF becomes way more pronounced and I feel offers a few more applications to the lens than what their intended home can achieve. I illustrated this recently with the HD DA 20-40 and DA 12-24 on the K-1 tripodded and comparing between crop mode and FF mode. Focus is on the blue bauble

K-1 + DA 12-24, Crop Mode

Shot at 14mm in crop mode, this gives a 21mm equivalent in FF mode, shot f4, but is presenting more like what a f6 shot would be like on FF.

K-1 + DA 12-24, FF Mode

Shot at 21mm in FF mode, f4, notice how now the out of focus areas are more pronounced due to 'really being f4', whereas f4 on crop bodies is behaving more like f6 for FF.


QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Ah but when you've already paid for one and it's in hand and does double duty on all your cameras without more cash outlay? Well I'm kinda with Bruce. The DA 12-24 is a really nice lens.

One more from a recent gig;



Pushing it a bit at 19mm here, but the distortion is not too bad. We liked the context of the shot, a close group of friends with their bairns, the two fellas on the verandah, all of the house in the shot as well as the cute foreground tree thingy. Neat that this can be done. Just a shame the sky wasn't a little bit 'happier' but at least it has texture.

QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Bruce, I've seen you post up images before similar in feel to that first one that look to be variations on a specific collection of LR settings. Are you starting out with a certain preset and adjusting it to the scene as required? I love the soft hazy look you give some of your shots, which typically are compelling images anyway if you don't mind my saying. You're quite good.
Thanks heaps for the compliment, much appreciated.

This year I've done more professional jobs and have taken time to reflect on my workflow and how I can improve upon my efficiency. The main hurdle I have right now is at what time to employ the 'style' of the shot (including monochroming a shot). When you work for someone else it can be important to be flexible, you might think mono is best for this shot, you may have even deliberately taken the shot at the time with settings biased towards a favourable mono outcome, but if you deliver the mono to the client and they want colour... then... yeh.

Most of my work this year stemmed from getting a style/look first and then doing some of the harder photoshop stuff after (like advanced cloning/skin fixing). The problem with this is two things;

1) the skin work is applied to the style. so if you want to go back and change the style it also means repeating the skin work (ZZz....)
2) If you do it the other way around and apply the more advanced PS skin work first and deciding on style after then you're working on a TIFF file, and the (bought) tools available in LR to use to assist with styling are not playing ball so nicely in this regard.

If you really want to go down this rabbit hole you're welcome to watch a couple of recent vids I put out on this specific topic (as I was reaching out for help/advice);

Part 1;

Part 2;

So currently I am trialling this workflow, its not 100% complete, such as when I backup is left out, but this is more of a workflow chart from the time i eject the sd cards from the camera (top left) and export the image for the client or myself. The drawback is definitely doing the style after and not having it as accurate as intended and perhaps steering the TIFF file version more towards its DNG counterpart (but that's probably the lesser of two evils);



So yeah, a large part of the look my images have will be in part due to presets and 3Dluts, how they are applied, what intensity, opacity and such.

QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Very nice.
Thank you Terry.
01-03-2020, 04:10 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Got any samples of that lens for us to have a peek at? Really I couldn't say no to this deal I scored for the 12-24. It goes for over $1K(AUD) new and I got a mint copy (basically used a handful of times) for only $400AUD. I have the KP as well so knew that if the results were less than stella on the K-1 then the KP would still have a friend.

What I really like about using Crop lenses on FF mode (if you can get away with it) is that the DoF becomes way more pronounced and I feel offers a few more applications to the lens than what their intended home can achieve. I illustrated this recently with the HD DA 20-40 and DA 12-24 on the K-1 tripodded and comparing between crop mode and FF mode. Focus is on the blue bauble

K-1 + DA 12-24, Crop Mode

Shot at 14mm in crop mode, this gives a 21mm equivalent in FF mode, shot f4, but is presenting more like what a f6 shot would be like on FF.

K-1 + DA 12-24, FF Mode

Shot at 21mm in FF mode, f4, notice how now the out of focus areas are more pronounced due to 'really being f4', whereas f4 on crop bodies is behaving more like f6 for FF.




One more from a recent gig;



Pushing it a bit at 19mm here, but the distortion is not too bad. We liked the context of the shot, a close group of friends with their bairns, the two fellas on the verandah, all of the house in the shot as well as the cute foreground tree thingy. Neat that this can be done. Just a shame the sky wasn't a little bit 'happier' but at least it has texture.



Thanks heaps for the compliment, much appreciated.

This year I've done more professional jobs and have taken time to reflect on my workflow and how I can improve upon my efficiency. The main hurdle I have right now is at what time to employ the 'style' of the shot (including monochroming a shot). When you work for someone else it can be important to be flexible, you might think mono is best for this shot, you may have even deliberately taken the shot at the time with settings biased towards a favourable mono outcome, but if you deliver the mono to the client and they want colour... then... yeh.

Most of my work this year stemmed from getting a style/look first and then doing some of the harder photoshop stuff after (like advanced cloning/skin fixing). The problem with this is two things;

1) the skin work is applied to the style. so if you want to go back and change the style it also means repeating the skin work (ZZz....)
2) If you do it the other way around and apply the more advanced PS skin work first and deciding on style after then you're working on a TIFF file, and the (bought) tools available in LR to use to assist with styling are not playing ball so nicely in this regard.

If you really want to go down this rabbit hole you're welcome to watch a couple of recent vids I put out on this specific topic (as I was reaching out for help/advice);

Part 1; Smart Object + Cloning - YouTube

Part 2; Applying Preset/3DLut difference, Tiff (post PS) Vs DNG (native) - YouTube

So currently I am trialling this workflow, its not 100% complete, such as when I backup is left out, but this is more of a workflow chart from the time i eject the sd cards from the camera (top left) and export the image for the client or myself. The drawback is definitely doing the style after and not having it as accurate as intended and perhaps steering the TIFF file version more towards its DNG counterpart (but that's probably the lesser of two evils);



So yeah, a large part of the look my images have will be in part due to presets and 3Dluts, how they are applied, what intensity, opacity and such.
Thanks for being so detailed in the response. Based on your chart alone I've settled on nearly the exact same workflow. including separate folders from each shoot titled "for PS processing", and one for "processed TIFFs" separate from the RAW catalog from each session. Developed by trial and error in my case with error playing the most important part LOL.
Lacking the obvious talent you have for it of course so far more work needed there.

So very helpful sire, that puts me more at ease that there's no shame in getting a jump start from presets and LUTS
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