[aslyfox]

. . . addendum if you check the review listings for the tamron adaptall 500mm mirrors I have put in links to video reviews, one in particular discusses using these with tc's, with some v good results.

the OP might want to look at these threads:

The Mirror Lens Club! - PentaxForums.com

Adaptall Mount Club (Tamron). - PentaxForums.com

I recently took a chance on a Tamron Adaptall-2 SP 500mm f/8 Mirror (55BB) and although I am suffering with the " learning curve " I like it

[Ontarian50]

Also any heat makes lots of distortion at any distance. Dust and haze can be a real bummer as well.

For sure. Lots of uninitiated beginners assume those jumbo lenses they see at popular birding spots have massive magnification - at least 10 times more than the 300mm lens they've already got. They assume those well-heeled pros and amateurs can pick off birds from a quarter mile away and get tack sharp results with those jumbo optics.

When they find out even those massive lenses are only 600mm at most, and their main benefit is more light gathering f-stops, they're confused. I try to point out to them that the bird photographer's biggest assets are patience and planning - trying to carefully figure out how to capture the birds within range.

Then they ask me what would work to get a good shot of an eagle, when it's only a black speck in a distant tree? I point out that between them and that black speck is several hundred meters of air, which contains dust particles, and moisture particles, all of which fuzz things up.

Trying to turn a camera into a terrestrial telescope isn't nearly as much fun as it sounds.

[Paul the Sunman]

You would think this is where 4/3 or MFT would be the way to go. Indeed, there are some quite cheap 300 mm lenses available (600 mm FF equivalent). For more money (US$1800), there is the Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmar 100-400mm f/4-6.3, which delivers up to 800mm equivalence.

Or, as tvdtvdtvd suggests, go the Q.

[Pedrodelta]

You Tube

You Tube

amazon.com : Super 500mm/1000mm f/8 Manual Telephoto Lens for Pentax K-1, K-S2, K-S1, K-500, KP, K-70, K-50, K-30, K5 IIs, K-7, K-5, K-3 II, K-2, K-X, K20D, K100D, K110D and K10D Digital SLR Cameras : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

[marcusBMG]

No No No don't even bother with that chinese made c**p - various cheap mirrors, t-mount 480-800mm "zooms". 800-1300mm "zooms", old style t-mount lenses like the one in the previous post..

[Pedrodelta]

No No No don't even bother with that chinese made c**p - various cheap mirrors, t-mount 480-800mm "zooms". 800-1300mm "zooms", old style t-mount lenses like the one in the previous post..

Oooops! Sorry!! But it is affordable though!!!

[BigMackCam]

Anyone have any experience with M42 MTO-1000A, or another recommendation for vaguely affordable 750mm+ super tele however weird? (for birding, APSC). I can live with doughnut bokeh (I think!). I have the Sigma 150-500 old version with TC but just isn't cutting it for me. I'm not a birder at all but live on property with insane wildlife so stupid not to get a vaguely ok telephoto. I'm sure I saw a review somewhere of maybe a telescope optic used for this with some shot of a pigeon but I can't find the darned piece, grr. Image is example of photo I can't live with
Thanks!

The problem with the MTO-1000 and MTO-11 lenses is that they're incredibly wide at the base of the body, and as a result they won't mount on cameras with an overhanging prism housing (I have the MTO-11, and it won't fit on my K-3). But even if they did, they're bulky lenses that don't handle particularly well, unless a very light lubricating grease is used on the focusing helicoid, and two hands are used for accurate focusing (at least, that's been my experience).

As has already been suggested, I wonder if you mightn't be better off adding a smaller-sensor body to your kit instead?

One off-the-wall suggestion that you might consider... a lightly-used Pentax Q-7 or Q-S1, plus a K-mount adapter (ideally the official one, but otherwise any that allows the diaphragm to be opened and closed and has a tripod foot), and a nice 200mm K-mount or M42 lens with aperture control. The crop factor of the Q-7 / Q-S1 is ~x4.7, so a 200mm lens would give roughly the same field of view as a 940mm lens on 35mm "full frame". Image quality won't compete with APS-C, but it's not so far removed as you'd think, especially if you keep reproduction sizes to sensible dimensions. A kit like this will take excellent photos, and the bonus is you get a great little mirrorless body for day-to-day shooting when you don't want to carry a DSLR, yet with the same amount of advanced and manual control. The downside is, you'd probably end up buying some native Q-series lenses for that very purpose

---

Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-19-2019 at 01:59 PM.

[Wasp]

These two bad boys come to mind:

SMC Pentax 1000mm F8 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

SMC Pentax Reflex 1000mm F11 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Neither of them are easy to find or cheap, sadly.

[aslyfox]

No No No don't even bother with that chinese made c**p - various cheap mirrors,

not all mirror lens are created equal

however, admittedly

they do all have their draw backs

fixed apertures, most useful with support of a tripod or monopod or with " bracing ", bokeh which may not be acceptable.

[BigMackCam]

not all mirror lens are created equal

Indeed so... but I appreciate where @marcusBMG is coming from. The cheaper Chinese "no brand" or "multi brand" lenses are pretty much universally and equally dreadful. They'll capture an image, but expectations must be set very low...

however, admittedly

they do all have their draw backs

fixed apertures, most useful with support of a tripod or monopod or with " bracing ", bokeh which may not be acceptable.

They do all have drawbacks... but, there are some very good mirror lenses. Tamron produced a couple, and I think Sigma did too, as did the Soviet lens factories. These are capable of taking good images, in a completely different class to those inexpensive Chinese models. But they still require practice to get the best results, and all produce the infamous "donut bokeh", so the photographer needs to pick his or her backgrounds wisely or live with the consequences...

[aslyfox]

. . . They do all have drawbacks... but, there are some very good mirror lenses. Tamron produced a couple, and I think Sigma did too, as did the Soviet lens factories. These are capable of taking good images, in a completely different class to those inexpensive Chinese models. But they still require practice to get the best results, and all produce the infamous "donut bokeh", so the photographer needs to pick his or her backgrounds wisely or live with the consequences...

yep

total agreement

I am in the midst of a learning curve ( which is true, actually, with all of my equipment )

but I am very satisfied with what I have been able to get so far with my Tamron Adaptall-2 SP 500mm f/8 Mirror (55BB)

https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/tamron-adaptall-2-sp-500mm-f-8-mirror-55bb.html

some times you can find some thing at a price which allows you to take the risk

that is what allowed me to take the chance

[photoptimist]

The problem with the MTO-1000 and MTO-11 lenses is that they're incredibly wide at the base of the body, and as a result they won't mount on cameras with an overhanging prism housing (I have the MTO-11, and it won't fit on my K-3).

That's a bummer. I wonder if a 7mm extension tube would be enough to create clearance between the prism and the lens? Sure, the tube prevents infinity focus but 7mm is so short, the lens should still be able to focus all the way out to 140 meters or so. At that distance, the frame is about 2.5 m x 3.9 m in APS-C which is probably the limit for decent shots of birds.

Or, adding a 1.4 or 2X teleconvertor would guarantee clearance although focusing, light levels, and sharpness would suffer.

[Des]

As a regular in the long lens thread, I'd say @marcusBMG has tested for us just about every budget long lens option there is. Follow his advice.

Smaller sensor like the Q looks to me the way to go, with the best tele lens you have.

Some fill flash would help a lot to bring out more detail on the subject. You could use a flash extender if the distance is too great - MagMod Magbeam is good but heavy and a bit pricey; the JJC one is flimsy but cheap and effective. If your birds turn up at a regular spot you might be able to place an off-camera flash near it and fire with a radio trigger. If it's close enough use some kind of diffuser. A suitable gel on the flash would be worth trying.

Incidentally @Nass I love your macro contributions and your great site.

[BigMackCam]

That's a bummer.

It is I use my MTO-11 rarely, but when I do it's on my A7 MkII...

I wonder if a 7mm extension tube would be enough to create clearance between the prism and the lens? Sure, the tube prevents infinity focus but 7mm is so short, the lens should still be able to focus all the way out to 140 meters or so. At that distance, the frame is about 2.5 m x 3.9 m in APS-C which is probably the limit for decent shots of birds.

That's an interesting idea! I'll have to try that. Honestly, I'm not sure how far the K-3's prism / flash housing extends beyond the mount, but it would be interesting to find out. Thanks

Or, adding a 1.4 or 2X teleconvertor would guarantee clearance although focusing, light levels, and sharpness would suffer.

Yes... the MTO-11 is decent for its class, but a TC would be a step too far, I fear

[BrianR]

Wear camo, maybe even work from a blind. That will enable you to get closer to your subjects. From an IQ standpoint, I'll take the results from a 300mm - 400mm lens any day over a 750mm lens.

I agree. A blind + lots of spare time to sit in it + quality 3-400mm > super long lens.