Pentax/Samsung D-Xenon 12-24mm, is it worth it?

telum · 08-22-2019, 12:23 AM

I am considering buying this for cheap, as I would like to try a UWA without splashing too much. The seller claims it works fine, but is not perfectly sharp on the left side @12mm.

Do you think it is a serious problem that could become worse any day, or could this be repaired or useful in it's current state?

dbs · 08-22-2019, 12:41 AM

Hi Telum

How cheap is cheap ?
How much of the left side is effected ?
Is the same at 12,13 ,14, etc ?
Sharp how sharp do you expect ?
I have the Pentax one mine the sides are not 100 % but I dont pixel peep its fine for me
It is a dear lens in Aus.
Welcome to the forum

Dave

ZombieArmy · 08-22-2019, 01:03 AM

That depends on how cheap it is. I wouldn't want to deal with substantial decentering no matter how cheap it is honestly.

telum · 08-22-2019, 01:19 AM

I do not have any sample images, but I guess I could get some if I asked the seller.

It is not dirt-cheap as then I would have just tried it out, it is approximately 80 USD. It would set me back at least 1000 USD if I were to buy the Pentax version from new. I might be leaning towards a fully functioning used Sigma 10-20mm in stead, seems to not be worth the risk..

Thanks for the replies and a great forum

robiles · 08-22-2019, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by telum

I do not have any sample images, but I guess I could get some if I asked the seller.

It is not dirt-cheap as then I would have just tried it out, it is approximately 80 USD. It would set me back at least 1000 USD if I were to buy the Pentax version from new. I might be leaning towards a fully functioning used Sigma 10-20mm in stead, seems to not be worth the risk..

Thanks for the replies and a great forum

If the price really is 80$, then i would call it dirt cheap, and buy it if i were you. Where i live, the price starts at about 400€ for a second hand copy.

You should also consider that purchasing any used wide angle lens, you have the chance of getting a decentered one - only sure thing is buy new and send them back until you get a good copy.

I also buy second hand lenses mostly, and have encountered decentered lenses, and had no problems. You can compose a photo so that the edges do not contain points of interest, or compose wider and crop as needed.

Jonathan Mac · 08-22-2019, 06:29 AM

If it's not sharp on one side then it's de-centred. As far as I know there's no reason for it to worsen over time but unless it's really cheap then I wouldn't be happy buying a lens I knew wasn't going to produce sharp photos.

The Sigma is reputed to be a very good lens.

TaoMaas · 08-22-2019, 08:10 AM

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but looking at the pics of the lens, it seems like things aren't quite aligned like they should be. $80 is REALLY cheap for this lens and I'm wondering if that's because of the focusing issues. If you have the time, I think I'd ask for some sample photos so you can judge for yourself whether the left side softness is something you can live with or not.

**blackcloudbrew** · 08-22-2019, 09:01 AM

I have owned a copy of this lens for almost 10 years. For a time, it was my very most favorite ultra wide angle lens - it still is but I've acquired other lenses and now a K-1 which draws more attention than my trusty old Xenon-D 12-24. The only problem I have with it is that, although it is an exact copy of Pentax's 12-24 lens (and likely made by Pentax at that point), all of my Pentax cameras K-20d, K-5, K-3 fail to read what this lens is - by that I mean record the lens in the exif data. It's an annoying quirk and as I like to have this recorded by the camera, I've often considered replacing it with the Pentax version. That said, because Samsung quit the Pentax emulation of it's cameras ? 8 years ago, you might have a problem getting it serviced. Don't know, haven't needed to check on this but I've worried about it for a long time. User note, if you do get this lens, don't use a polarizer on it with landscape shots. It's so wide that the sky will darken in a portion of the image leaving the rest undarkened. Like this image in Yosemite shot at 12mm.

Personally, I feel that $80 is really dirt cheap for this lens. It brings up the old adage - you get what you pay for... Yeah, I'd ask for some images from the camera showing the decentering issue and see if you can live with it. OTOH, $80 is not much to loose if it's a dog. It's a great lens to use. Somewhere back a few years on PF there was a review of the three competing lenses in this class, the Tamron 10-24, Sigma 10-20, and Pentax 12-24. As I recall, the Pentax version was the best overall. I felt that then, and still do now. Here is a shot I took in Barcelona 2 years ago, again at 12mm.

Edit: I found the comparison article I mentioned above. https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-12-24mm-lens-comparison/introduction.html

Ronald Oakes · 08-22-2019, 10:19 AM

No matter the Price.....if its decentered I would Run Away from this like the Plague !

telum · 08-22-2019, 11:36 AM

wow thanks for all the comments! I have asked for some sample shots, so I am waiting and thinking if it is worth it

I was actually in Barcelona two years ago with work, didn't notice you though :-)

tibbitts · 08-22-2019, 05:19 PM

I would not buy a lens that exhibits this behavior because I'd be virtually certain there would be nothing I could do to fix it.

**clackers** · 08-22-2019, 05:53 PM

Just stay away from a decentred lens, IMHO, Telum!

northcoastgreg · 08-22-2019, 06:52 PM

One issue to consider in terms of decentering: does it go away when the lens is stopped down. I had a decentered DFA 15-30 back in February. At f16, you could not detect the decentering; at f11 you could barely detect it through intensive pixel peeping; but at f2.8, you could perceive the decentering even at normal screen size, it was so obvious. If the decentering goes away when the lens is stopped down, it might not be that big a deal. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've shot my DA 12-24 faster the f8.

automorphism · 08-22-2019, 07:58 PM

I agree. Terrible idea. You can probably get once of those Sigma 10-20s out there for a couple hundred dollars, which wouldn't be decentered!

Éire69 · 08-23-2019, 02:39 PM

A little decentering can be annoying but this doesn't mean the lens cannot be used. But... if what I see from the pictures is a decentered group, then it's way worse than those decentered lenses I encountered and used. But this does mean that it probably can be easily realigned, because the group simply doesn't sit where it should.

08-22-2019, 12:23 AM	#1
telum Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 45	Pentax/Samsung D-Xenon 12-24mm, is it worth it? I am considering buying this for cheap, as I would like to try a UWA without splashing too much. The seller claims it works fine, but is not perfectly sharp on the left side @12mm. Do you think it is a serious problem that could become worse any day, or could this be repaired or useful in it's current state?

08-22-2019, 09:01 AM	#8
blackcloudbrew Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cotati, California USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,460	I have owned a copy of this lens for almost 10 years. For a time, it was my very most favorite ultra wide angle lens - it still is but I've acquired other lenses and now a K-1 which draws more attention than my trusty old Xenon-D 12-24. The only problem I have with it is that, although it is an exact copy of Pentax's 12-24 lens (and likely made by Pentax at that point), all of my Pentax cameras K-20d, K-5, K-3 fail to read what this lens is - by that I mean record the lens in the exif data. It's an annoying quirk and as I like to have this recorded by the camera, I've often considered replacing it with the Pentax version. That said, because Samsung quit the Pentax emulation of it's cameras ? 8 years ago, you might have a problem getting it serviced. Don't know, haven't needed to check on this but I've worried about it for a long time. User note, if you do get this lens, don't use a polarizer on it with landscape shots. It's so wide that the sky will darken in a portion of the image leaving the rest undarkened. Like this image in Yosemite shot at 12mm. Personally, I feel that $80 is really dirt cheap for this lens. It brings up the old adage - you get what you pay for... Yeah, I'd ask for some images from the camera showing the decentering issue and see if you can live with it. OTOH, $80 is not much to loose if it's a dog. It's a great lens to use. Somewhere back a few years on PF there was a review of the three competing lenses in this class, the Tamron 10-24, Sigma 10-20, and Pentax 12-24. As I recall, the Pentax version was the best overall. I felt that then, and still do now. Here is a shot I took in Barcelona 2 years ago, again at 12mm. Edit: I found the comparison article I mentioned above. https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-12-24mm-lens-comparison/introduction.html Last edited by blackcloudbrew; 08-22-2019 at 09:09 AM.

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08-22-2019, 12:41 AM	#2
dbs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Clare Valley S A Photos: Albums Posts: 7,563	Hi Telum How cheap is cheap ? How much of the left side is effected ? Is the same at 12,13 ,14, etc ? Sharp how sharp do you expect ? I have the Pentax one mine the sides are not 100 % but I dont pixel peep its fine for me It is a dear lens in Aus. Welcome to the forum Dave

08-22-2019, 01:03 AM	#3
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	That depends on how cheap it is. I wouldn't want to deal with substantial decentering no matter how cheap it is honestly.

08-22-2019, 01:19 AM	#4
telum Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 45 Original Poster	I do not have any sample images, but I guess I could get some if I asked the seller. It is not dirt-cheap as then I would have just tried it out, it is approximately 80 USD. It would set me back at least 1000 USD if I were to buy the Pentax version from new. I might be leaning towards a fully functioning used Sigma 10-20mm in stead, seems to not be worth the risk.. Thanks for the replies and a great forum

08-22-2019, 02:03 AM	#5
robiles Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Deva Posts: 311	Originally posted by telum I do not have any sample images, but I guess I could get some if I asked the seller. It is not dirt-cheap as then I would have just tried it out, it is approximately 80 USD. It would set me back at least 1000 USD if I were to buy the Pentax version from new. I might be leaning towards a fully functioning used Sigma 10-20mm in stead, seems to not be worth the risk.. Thanks for the replies and a great forum If the price really is 80$, then i would call it dirt cheap, and buy it if i were you. Where i live, the price starts at about 400€ for a second hand copy. You should also consider that purchasing any used wide angle lens, you have the chance of getting a decentered one - only sure thing is buy new and send them back until you get a good copy. I also buy second hand lenses mostly, and have encountered decentered lenses, and had no problems. You can compose a photo so that the edges do not contain points of interest, or compose wider and crop as needed.

08-22-2019, 06:29 AM	#6
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	If it's not sharp on one side then it's de-centred. As far as I know there's no reason for it to worsen over time but unless it's really cheap then I wouldn't be happy buying a lens I knew wasn't going to produce sharp photos. The Sigma is reputed to be a very good lens.

08-22-2019, 08:10 AM	#7
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but looking at the pics of the lens, it seems like things aren't quite aligned like they should be. $80 is REALLY cheap for this lens and I'm wondering if that's because of the focusing issues. If you have the time, I think I'd ask for some sample photos so you can judge for yourself whether the left side softness is something you can live with or not.

08-22-2019, 10:19 AM	#9
Ronald Oakes Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,582	No matter the Price.....if its decentered I would Run Away from this like the Plague !

08-22-2019, 11:36 AM	#10
telum Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 45 Original Poster	wow thanks for all the comments! I have asked for some sample shots, so I am waiting and thinking if it is worth it I was actually in Barcelona two years ago with work, didn't notice you though :-)

08-22-2019, 05:19 PM	#11
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	I would not buy a lens that exhibits this behavior because I'd be virtually certain there would be nothing I could do to fix it.

08-22-2019, 05:53 PM	#12
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Just stay away from a decentred lens, IMHO, Telum!

08-22-2019, 06:52 PM	#13
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,173	One issue to consider in terms of decentering: does it go away when the lens is stopped down. I had a decentered DFA 15-30 back in February. At f16, you could not detect the decentering; at f11 you could barely detect it through intensive pixel peeping; but at f2.8, you could perceive the decentering even at normal screen size, it was so obvious. If the decentering goes away when the lens is stopped down, it might not be that big a deal. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've shot my DA 12-24 faster the f8.

08-22-2019, 07:58 PM	#14
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	I agree. Terrible idea. You can probably get once of those Sigma 10-20s out there for a couple hundred dollars, which wouldn't be decentered!

08-23-2019, 02:39 PM	#15
Éire69 New Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 18	A little decentering can be annoying but this doesn't mean the lens cannot be used. But... if what I see from the pictures is a decentered group, then it's way worse than those decentered lenses I encountered and used. But this does mean that it probably can be easily realigned, because the group simply doesn't sit where it should.