Why persist in using legacy manual lenses

Wasp · 10-01-2019, 11:49 AM - **1 Like**

For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me!

**DW58** · 10-01-2019, 11:54 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by luftfluss

One of the big benefits of shooting old glass is you're free... free from self-important online reviews, free from some mathematics-based ideal of perfection, free from nerd-raging AF battles where the loser is cast down into the ninth circle of Hell... you're free to accept and embrace imperfection in your gear and in yourself, and focus on the subject and the moment.

Well said. And great image of a Skipper.

**luftfluss** · 10-01-2019, 04:24 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by DW58

Well said. And great image of a Skipper.

Thank you. I used the Tamron Adaptall 70-210/3.5 19AH, and I knew that the sun just out of the frame would cause flare, and I feel that enhanced the image, using a "flaw" to produce (IMO) a better photo.

Another benefit of using legacy manual-focus lenses is that you do become more skilled. Last year I was at river's edge near sundown and encountered a lady with a Canon 5D MkII and some xx-300mm Canon USM lens. There was a snapping turtle swimming around, mostly in darkness and occasionally flashing into the last remaining slice of sunlight. The woman's Canon gear simply would not focus on it - too dark, too little contrast - but because I'd taken 1000's of shots with my A 400/5.6, I was able to quickly and accurately focus on the snapper.

reh321 · 10-01-2019, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

I take it you are a jpeg shooter? I love my old Taks and M-series lenses specifically because the lower contrast allows me more latitude in post-processing.

I am a "JPEG shooter" - I also use a Takumar or Pentax-M lens occasionally. I don't normally use the 'raw' files created, but sometimes I will read the JPEG into gimp to minor adjustments - plumb, crop, adjust curve, etc.

**travelswsage** · 10-02-2019, 11:59 AM - **1 Like**

Didnt check the entire thread to see if this has been mentioned yet but as I'm discovering -- some of the older lenses have different coatings that react differently to infrared light so that some of them have less in the way of "hotspots" than do modern versions with newer coatings.

m42man · 10-10-2019, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Wasp

For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me!

I'd be a bit careful with distance and DOF markings on a vintage lens. Distance marks are approximate only, and DOF markings are intended for full-frame film cameras with much lower resolution than modern DSLRs. Plus, when mounted on a crop-frame camera, there is less DOF anyway.

So, in general, be very conservative when using lens markings.

Wasp · 10-10-2019, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by m42man

I'd be a bit careful with distance and DOF markings on a vintage lens. Distance marks are approximate only, and DOF markings are intended for full-frame film cameras with much lower resolution than modern DSLRs. Plus, when mounted on a crop-frame camera, there is less DOF anyway.

So, in general, be very conservative when using lens markings.

Indeed. What seems to work is to use the markings for f/8 but actually use f/11.

epple486 · 11-02-2020, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by robgski

My guess is that when using DA lenses, the camera is doing more of the work of making a technically good picture.

I can only suggest practicing using the legacy glass in Program Mode, Av Mode, and Manual mode, to see if there are any noticeable differences in the images.

I like the idea of practicing in Program mode. I too have had issues with learning to use my manual focus lenses. I have probably been trying to make too many adjustments without understanding the changes I was making.

---------- Post added 11-02-20 at 09:51 AM ----------

Originally posted by automorphism

I have a few cheap lenses. You can do a lot of great photography with a 50 dollar 50mm, and it's also a great way to experiment with focal lengths without buying an expensive modern lens, to see if you like a certain style.

In terms of quality, let's take the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7. It produces great portraits. It has its downsides and flares weirdly, and the bokeh from f/2.0 to f/2.8 is pretty bad (shuriken-style). However, if you eliminate some of these edge cases, it can produces images as nice as a modern lens.

I inherited a bunch of beautiful manual focus M and K mount lenses. I appreciate posts on this forum that help me understand what I have, and how to adapt to using them on a Pentax digital. Lot's to learn

---------- Post added 11-02-20 at 10:01 AM ----------

Originally posted by Wasp

For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me!

Great ideas here! I am looking forward to trying it out. I know I used to do the same thing shooting with film, but somehow using digital has caused me to drift away from stuff that seemed natural with manual focus before. Your post really made me think about that. Thanks.

FotoPete · 11-03-2020, 09:51 PM - **1 Like**

Started off as a cost of entry thing, going manual was a more economical way of getting more for what you had and you would (ideally) make up for the focusing speed with practice. Now I'm not so sure? Maybe the nostalgia or romanticism of it.

**rogerstg** · 11-09-2020, 10:39 AM - **1 Like**

Like many of my hobbies, I enjoy the process at least as much as the result. I enjoy the practice of manual focus, setting aperture, etc. It's not always practical when mainly capturing memories as part of other activities, but I get satisfaction when I get back to those basics.

I also enjoy fishing with a bamboo fly rod and pheasant hunting with a 1950s side by side 16 gauge, despite also having more modern equipment.

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10-01-2019, 11:49 AM - 1 Like	#151
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me!

10-01-2019, 11:54 AM - 1 Like	#152
DW58 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Rural Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,064	Originally posted by luftfluss One of the big benefits of shooting old glass is you're free... free from self-important online reviews, free from some mathematics-based ideal of perfection, free from nerd-raging AF battles where the loser is cast down into the ninth circle of Hell... you're free to accept and embrace imperfection in your gear and in yourself, and focus on the subject and the moment. Well said. And great image of a Skipper.

10-01-2019, 04:24 PM - 3 Likes	#153
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by DW58 Well said. And great image of a Skipper. Thank you. I used the Tamron Adaptall 70-210/3.5 19AH, and I knew that the sun just out of the frame would cause flare, and I feel that enhanced the image, using a "flaw" to produce (IMO) a better photo. Another benefit of using legacy manual-focus lenses is that you do become more skilled. Last year I was at river's edge near sundown and encountered a lady with a Canon 5D MkII and some xx-300mm Canon USM lens. There was a snapping turtle swimming around, mostly in darkness and occasionally flashing into the last remaining slice of sunlight. The woman's Canon gear simply would not focus on it - too dark, too little contrast - but because I'd taken 1000's of shots with my A 400/5.6, I was able to quickly and accurately focus on the snapper.

10-01-2019, 04:32 PM	#154
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,179	Originally posted by jbinpg I take it you are a jpeg shooter? I love my old Taks and M-series lenses specifically because the lower contrast allows me more latitude in post-processing. I am a "JPEG shooter" - I also use a Takumar or Pentax-M lens occasionally. I don't normally use the 'raw' files created, but sometimes I will read the JPEG into gimp to minor adjustments - plumb, crop, adjust curve, etc.

10-02-2019, 11:59 AM - 1 Like	#155
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385	Didnt check the entire thread to see if this has been mentioned yet but as I'm discovering -- some of the older lenses have different coatings that react differently to infrared light so that some of them have less in the way of "hotspots" than do modern versions with newer coatings.

10-10-2019, 04:04 AM	#156
m42man Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Southern England Posts: 623	Originally posted by Wasp For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me! I'd be a bit careful with distance and DOF markings on a vintage lens. Distance marks are approximate only, and DOF markings are intended for full-frame film cameras with much lower resolution than modern DSLRs. Plus, when mounted on a crop-frame camera, there is less DOF anyway. So, in general, be very conservative when using lens markings.

10-10-2019, 09:45 AM	#157
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	Originally posted by m42man I'd be a bit careful with distance and DOF markings on a vintage lens. Distance marks are approximate only, and DOF markings are intended for full-frame film cameras with much lower resolution than modern DSLRs. Plus, when mounted on a crop-frame camera, there is less DOF anyway. So, in general, be very conservative when using lens markings. Indeed. What seems to work is to use the markings for f/8 but actually use f/11.

11-02-2020, 08:35 AM	#158
epple486 New Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 3	Originally posted by robgski My guess is that when using DA lenses, the camera is doing more of the work of making a technically good picture. I can only suggest practicing using the legacy glass in Program Mode, Av Mode, and Manual mode, to see if there are any noticeable differences in the images. I like the idea of practicing in Program mode. I too have had issues with learning to use my manual focus lenses. I have probably been trying to make too many adjustments without understanding the changes I was making. ---------- Post added 11-02-20 at 09:51 AM ---------- Originally posted by automorphism I have a few cheap lenses. You can do a lot of great photography with a 50 dollar 50mm, and it's also a great way to experiment with focal lengths without buying an expensive modern lens, to see if you like a certain style. In terms of quality, let's take the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7. It produces great portraits. It has its downsides and flares weirdly, and the bokeh from f/2.0 to f/2.8 is pretty bad (shuriken-style). However, if you eliminate some of these edge cases, it can produces images as nice as a modern lens. I inherited a bunch of beautiful manual focus M and K mount lenses. I appreciate posts on this forum that help me understand what I have, and how to adapt to using them on a Pentax digital. Lot's to learn ---------- Post added 11-02-20 at 10:01 AM ---------- Originally posted by Wasp For street photography, it is hard to beat a manual focus 20mm or 28mm (on crop frame) - especially in low light. While AF hunts for the sweet spot, the moment goes away. On your old school MF lens, you can read preset the focus and aperture, using the depth of field marks as a guide. Yes, you can do the same on an AF lens. The thing is, AF lenses tend to have a much shorter focus throw. Some don't have distance marks on the lens and/or DOF marks. Screw drive lenses have little resistance to the focus ring. Most MF lenses, primes especially, have long smooth travel focus rings. Works for me! Great ideas here! I am looking forward to trying it out. I know I used to do the same thing shooting with film, but somehow using digital has caused me to drift away from stuff that seemed natural with manual focus before. Your post really made me think about that. Thanks.

11-03-2020, 09:51 PM - 1 Like	#159
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	Started off as a cost of entry thing, going manual was a more economical way of getting more for what you had and you would (ideally) make up for the focusing speed with practice. Now I'm not so sure? Maybe the nostalgia or romanticism of it.

11-09-2020, 10:39 AM - 1 Like	#160
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	Like many of my hobbies, I enjoy the process at least as much as the result. I enjoy the practice of manual focus, setting aperture, etc. It's not always practical when mainly capturing memories as part of other activities, but I get satisfaction when I get back to those basics. I also enjoy fishing with a bamboo fly rod and pheasant hunting with a 1950s side by side 16 gauge, despite also having more modern equipment.