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09-17-2019, 02:38 PM - 5 Likes   #1
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Pentax 11-18/KP combo compare Fuji 8-16/XT30 combo

Pentax proving it's worth, and the Pentax HD 11-18 looks like a relative bargain.



Last edited by gatorguy; 09-17-2019 at 02:51 PM.
09-18-2019, 11:34 AM   #2
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Thanks for sharing - very Interesting test but, these are two different lenses - 8mm being much wider than 11mm (difference in FF terms of 12mm vs. 16.5mm). Weird is the the difference in sharpness at same focal length, zoom, and aperture stop. Further, I say the X-T2, X-T20, and X-H1 have a better sensors for still photography than the three series cameras, which are optimized for video (other, more versed reviewers agree!). Also, I would have wanted another, additonal comparison at one other focal length to be more relevant - say 16mm which tops out the Fuji's range Lastly, would have loved to have seen the close-ups of the lens flares that are mentioned...
09-18-2019, 11:47 AM - 1 Like   #3
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I watched this a day ago, and I must say I was as much unimpressed by the Fuji combo as impressed by the Pentax, which surprised me - it seems all that correction carries a heavy price in real world terms. The main thing was the camera rather than the lens perhaps - the Fuji seemed to consistently blow the highlights - it the sky as well as the table
09-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #4
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I was surprised at how poor the micro contrast on the Fuji was, especially in the background. Looks like mush up until F/8. And it is even heavier that the 11-18!

09-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #5
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You can't really compare lenses using Adobe software. There's no way of knowing the settings are actually the same under the hood. The Fuji will be distortion corrected for sure, perhaps also ca.

I'm slowly softening regarding this lens however... Despite it being a bulky zoom.
09-19-2019, 04:39 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtgmansf Quote
Thanks for sharing - very Interesting test but, these are two different lenses - 8mm being much wider than 11mm (difference in FF terms of 12mm vs. 16.5mm). Weird is the the difference in sharpness at same focal length, zoom, and aperture stop. Further, I say the X-T2, X-T20, and X-H1 have a better sensors for still photography than the three series cameras, which are optimized for video (other, more versed reviewers agree!). Also, I would have wanted another, additonal comparison at one other focal length to be more relevant - say 16mm which tops out the Fuji's range Lastly, would have loved to have seen the close-ups of the lens flares that are mentioned...
I think the big thing is that Fuji lenses have a lot of baked in corrections for distortion and vignetting. Particularly vignetting. I guess that doesn't bother Fuji users, but you are already dealing with slightly less dynamic range due to using APS-C, if you are bumping the shadows 1 stop or a bit more in the corners then you are going to have more noise by definition.
09-20-2019, 04:44 AM - 1 Like   #7
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I've taken an academic interest in Fuji (and mirrorless in general) lenses recently.

My do they suck! There's no other way to put it.

The amount of backed-in corrections required to have these lenses perform close to your consumer-level DA lens is astounding. It's hard to imagine where all the hype comes from.

09-20-2019, 06:03 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I've taken an academic interest in Fuji (and mirrorless in general) lenses recently.

My do they suck! There's no other way to put it.

The amount of backed-in corrections required to have these lenses perform close to your consumer-level DA lens is astounding. It's hard to imagine where all the hype comes from.
The reason I had stumbled on that video in the first place is seriously considering buying a Fuji X-T30 to use alongside my K-70 (still like it more than my KP). The Fuji gets a lot of positive comments and praise and commonly said to have much better glass than Sony has, a cheap (??) a6000 being the one I was originally interested in.

These videos were a revelation to me, and probably to a few other readers. I know when I go out on shoots or have meetups which include a number of mirrorless users, most often a Sony Alpha A7 II or III, it's rare to see a mirrorless shot that impresses me more than those taken with a DSLR. I chalked that up to mirrorless guys perhaps being less experienced, or perhaps just older and not seeing images as well as they used to since a lot of them claim failing vision is the reason for getting their Sony for that "amazing eye focus".

...but compared side by side my K-70 and KP shots are just as cleanly focused on eyes as any of the Sony shots when we compare them in the field and perhaps even quicker to set-up, focus, shoot. I see mirrorless shooters in my groups missing a lot of shots by taking a little too long to frame and focus. Still I thought maybe in my hands the hundreds of AF points and 10-thousand menu options would make the higher price I had to pay for comparable lenses and camera worth the trade-off.

So after watching a few more comparisons I think perhaps the vaunted mirrorless advantages has been somewhat overrated. TBH I'm now no longer at all interested in Fuji, nor Sony for that matter. Not worth the ecosystem shock to to use dual systems if the glass and imaging isn't noticeably better, and I really don't see all the advantages mirrorless shooters seems to espouse when actually comparing platforms using identical scenes and settings for images taken on both.

I know, there are probably niche use-cases where a mirrorless might be great under certain specific scenarios: large object running towards you, a big playful dog, a child running towards you, something like that. Mirrorless focusing systems look to be far LESS advantageous for smaller objects either moving or not: Birds, landscape, wildlife, flowers and butterfly, groups of active people or children.

So now I'll be satisfied to remain a Pentax user, especially so if the newly revealed K-Series camera coming next year has honest photography benefits and not just fluff features to keep up with the mirrorless and Canikon crowd. The benefits of good glass over more camera features is underappreciated anyway IMO, and I have no issue at all with finding good to excellent Pentax lenses. I'll save that money I would have spent on Fuji/Panasonic/Sony and lenses and put it in the photography-bank for now, waiting to see if a new Pentax body wows me or I find I really do have a need (okay a want) for yet another lens.

Last edited by gatorguy; 09-20-2019 at 06:17 AM.
09-20-2019, 11:30 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
The reason I had stumbled on that video in the first place is seriously considering buying a Fuji X-T30 to use alongside my K-70 (still like it more than my KP). The Fuji gets a lot of positive comments and praise and commonly said to have much better glass than Sony has, a cheap (??) a6000 being the one I was originally interested in.

These videos were a revelation to me, and probably to a few other readers. I know when I go out on shoots or have meetups which include a number of mirrorless users, most often a Sony Alpha A7 II or III, it's rare to see a mirrorless shot that impresses me more than those taken with a DSLR. I chalked that up to mirrorless guys perhaps being less experienced, or perhaps just older and not seeing images as well as they used to since a lot of them claim failing vision is the reason for getting their Sony for that "amazing eye focus".

...but compared side by side my K-70 and KP shots are just as cleanly focused on eyes as any of the Sony shots when we compare them in the field and perhaps even quicker to set-up, focus, shoot. I see mirrorless shooters in my groups missing a lot of shots by taking a little too long to frame and focus. Still I thought maybe in my hands the hundreds of AF points and 10-thousand menu options would make the higher price I had to pay for comparable lenses and camera worth the trade-off.

So after watching a few more comparisons I think perhaps the vaunted mirrorless advantages has been somewhat overrated. TBH I'm now no longer at all interested in Fuji, nor Sony for that matter. Not worth the ecosystem shock to to use dual systems if the glass and imaging isn't noticeably better, and I really don't see all the advantages mirrorless shooters seems to espouse when actually comparing platforms using identical scenes and settings for images taken on both.

I know, there are probably niche use-cases where a mirrorless might be great under certain specific scenarios: large object running towards you, a big playful dog, a child running towards you, something like that. Mirrorless focusing systems look to be far LESS advantageous for smaller objects either moving or not: Birds, landscape, wildlife, flowers and butterfly, groups of active people or children.

So now I'll be satisfied to remain a Pentax user, especially so if the newly revealed K-Series camera coming next year has honest photography benefits and not just fluff features to keep up with the mirrorless and Canikon crowd. The benefits of good glass over more camera features is underappreciated anyway IMO, and I have no issue at all with finding good to excellent Pentax lenses. I'll save that money I would have spent on Fuji/Panasonic/Sony and lenses and put it in the photography-bank for now, waiting to see if a new Pentax body wows me or I find I really do have a need (okay a want) for yet another lens.
When looking at sample shots by reviewers it's clear that "amazing eye af" doesn't guarantee nailed focus. Having graphics in the viewfinder tracking eyes isn't the same as nailing focus in the actual shot.
09-24-2019, 08:05 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Thanks for sharing this, very educational! It seems to me that Ricoh/Pentax just doesn't get the credit it deserves. It's nice to see credit given where it's due. I am not a pixel peeper and wow, the IQ difference between the Pentax lens and the Fuji lens is stunning. It looks to my amateur eye that the Pentax 11-18 is an excellent value. I cannot wrap my head around spending $2000 for blown highlights and smeared detail. Admittedly, it is not an apples-to-apples comparison, but if I was ever considering the Fuji system I would want to do a lot more research first.
10-23-2019, 12:39 AM   #11
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Thanks for sharing !
10-23-2019, 07:21 AM   #12
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I'm surprised with the results. At that price, and with a lot of hype the results with the Fuji combo are bad.
I wonder how the Fuji combo would compare with the KP + the Sigma 8-16.
10-23-2019, 08:19 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mbaez Quote
I'm surprised with the results. At that price, and with a lot of hype the results with the Fuji combo are bad.
I wonder how the Fuji combo would compare with the KP + the Sigma 8-16.
You said it. Fuji isn't "bad", but a lot of hype is only that, hype.
10-23-2019, 10:04 AM   #14
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Everyone should remember, there are many settings for Fuji jpegs and many different ways - and software options - to process Fuji and Pentax raw files. All these options can seriously influence results. What also creates skepticism for me, is the very different sharpness outcome in the background which leads me to conclude that focus points chosen on the lenses are not equal, and not necessarily that one lens is way sharper than the other. In my opinion, the laws of physics relative to depth-of-field should create much closer results than what is illustrated in this video. I do believe that Pentax lens coatings are superior and the additional lens elements in the Fuji can create more image degradation, although Fuji's coatings have - at least in the past - had a pretty good reputation, starting with EBC coatings in film 35mm and large format lenses. Bottom line - one lens and lens review does not a reputation make. Also, and as usual, ultra-wide zooms are some of the most difficult lenses to manufacture and sample issues are more common with these than all others. Finally, many do not believe that the new three series sensor is as good as the two series and X-H1 for still images (since it is optimized for video), and I agree with that observation when comparing sample images in a controlled environment.

Last edited by mtgmansf; 10-23-2019 at 10:29 AM. Reason: addition...
10-23-2019, 11:03 AM   #15
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Some Fuji lenses are just priceless. 14/2.8 is easily Distagon 21mm equal for APS-C. And small, too. 35/2 and 50/2 WR are superb while being tiny and 23/2 is not far off those two. 16/2.8 WR is a plain dud for a lens. I have this little IR-converted X-A3 and have used Fuji MILCs quite a bit over the passing years. Kinda on/off relationship.

Pentax needs APS-C collection in which every lens is of 35mm ltd Macro quality or better. IMHO Fuji has the lead here.
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