The FA Limited Development Story (also a little DA Limited)

stevebrot · 11-11-2019, 05:24 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by aslyfox

not what I need to hear

The Siren's call...

You Tube

Steve

bdery · 11-12-2019, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by aslyfox

not what I need to hear

The question is : would you have a use for the 77? I think we've established that it's a fantastic lens. But would you use it? If the answer is no, then the point is moot. If you ARE looking for a compact, beautifully made portrait lens capable of delivering among the best K-mount has to offer, then by all means go for it.

**aslyfox** · 11-12-2019, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by bdery

The question is : would you have a use for the 77? I think we've established that it's a fantastic lens. But would you use it? If the answer is no, then the point is moot. If you ARE looking for a compact, beautifully made portrait lens capable of delivering among the best K-mount has to offer, then by all means go for it.

not looking seriously now

but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind

I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon

I would never expect to get a new one

**beachgardener** · 11-12-2019, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by y0chang

Wonderful recap, I now own the FA 31mm and the FA 77mm im 2/3 the way to the fabled FA limited trio. This reminds me of this article which was a summary of a Japanese article that was translated about Jun Hirakawa. Lessons from a Legendary Lens Designer | Photoblog | The Northcoast Photographer

"The Limited Lenses are being developed with the ideal of high quality rendering in mind. They represent a break from preconceived notions concerning the importance of numerical evaluations in lens design. Instead, we wanted to make a lens that would produce beautifully rendered, unforgettable images. "

The FA limited are one of the last of the types of lens that create images that do this. The DFA 50 is close but it trades sharpness for lightness.

Cheers, thanks for posting that link

**mikesbike** · 11-12-2019, 08:01 PM

Marvelous post! it gives insights regarding the original thinking in how these famous lenses came into existence. I can understand the fears that the venture would fail in the marketplace, and be a financial burden to the company. Fortunately, it was a success. It does bring back memories for me as to various factors.

The odd FLs-

The 43mm FL that being previously determined as the diagonal of 35mm film equal to actually accurate normal perspective, was in reality a coincidence in the FA 43mm design! Does not make this equation less of a fact, if true. I my case, I simply found the FL more useful than my 50mm lenses, as I had with my "M" 40mm before it, and the images just seemed to look better. I did eventually notice the difference in perspective in some images, though slight. The FA 43mm f/1.9 also presented a noticeably brighter VF when used on the same body compared with my "M" 40mm f/2.8 lens.

Keeping an eye on lens testing, which back then included measuring actual FL, I recall an observation being made by some reviewers that at least one reason for the odd FLs of the Limiteds was accuracy. I was aware that many or most lenses were off somewhat from their claimed FL compared to their actual tested FL. The Limiteds were right on. This fact reinforced the reputation of precision in design and construction of the Limited Lenses.

Regarding "quick shift", it can be a useful function at times. I have used it with my DA Limiteds and other DA lenses on occasion. But although I most often use AF, I don't need "quick shift" so often as to say I miss that feature when using a lens that does not have it. When one needs it, it is nice to have, and it is a plus for Pentax lenses compared to other systems, yet it is not a deciding factor for me in lens choice. It simply had not come along yet when the FA lenses were designed, and not something I think about. Whether I will choose to use my FA 43mm or my DA 40mm depends more on whether I'll likely need a bit more in the frame or whether I'll likely need a bit more aperture speed and brighter VF.

Pentikonian · 11-12-2019, 08:19 PM

That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting!

bdery · 11-13-2019, 05:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by aslyfox

not looking seriously now

but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind

I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon

I would never expect to get a new one

I got mine for 500$ CAD, expecting to play with it and resell it to cover my expenses.

That idea lasted less than 5 minutes after I used the lens.

**aslyfox** · 11-13-2019, 06:03 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by bdery

I got mine for 500$ CAD, expecting to play with it and resell it to cover my expenses.

That idea lasted less than 5 minutes after I used the lens.

so you are saying

" buyer beware " it's a keeper

You Tube

Snapppy · 11-14-2019, 09:33 PM

Wonderful recap and very interesting history. I love stories like this, with trying new things and making timeless products. I got my first of the three, the 43mm, a few months ago after some skepticism about the three amigos. Well, I am no longer a skeptic, and notice I said first of three. I think I will have to try them all at some point

SSGGeezer · 11-14-2019, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by bdery

I got mine for 500$ CAD, expecting to play with it and resell it to cover my expenses.

That idea lasted less than 5 minutes after I used the lens.

Before I got my new job I was considering selling my copy but then I looked at the images from it and forgot about that idea, and now I have a K1 so that ship has sailed and she will be staying in my lens cabinet.

bdery · 11-15-2019, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

she will be staying in my lens cabinet.

Shouldn't be OUTSIDE that cabinet?

SSGGeezer · 11-15-2019, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by bdery

Shouldn't be OUTSIDE that cabinet?

If I am not using her at that very moment, She stays in the box, where I can see her when I lie down to go to sleep at night!

**TwoUptons** · 11-16-2019, 01:51 PM

That’s a cool story. Thanks.

I’d probably like the 31 best because of how I normally shoot, but it will be a while

-Eric

y0chang · 11-18-2019, 07:48 PM

After using the FA limiteds for a while, I realize the vignetting is actually intentional. Its actually optical vignetting creating an apodization filter like effect to create beautiful bokeh and transitions. Its actually a quiet genius by the lens designer, Jun Hirakawa for the original 43mm and 77mm and copied by the FA 31mm.

**aslyfox** · 11-18-2019, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by aslyfox

. . . but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon . . .

well

what is it say they - you keep looking and you might find what you are looking for

I found a FA 77 Limited being sold by a member in the Marketplace at a price I decided I could accept

Black, made in Japan, with the original box, caps and pouch and the pouch has gold lettering

should be here Wednesday

11-12-2019, 08:01 PM	#35
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,559	Marvelous post! it gives insights regarding the original thinking in how these famous lenses came into existence. I can understand the fears that the venture would fail in the marketplace, and be a financial burden to the company. Fortunately, it was a success. It does bring back memories for me as to various factors. The odd FLs- The 43mm FL that being previously determined as the diagonal of 35mm film equal to actually accurate normal perspective, was in reality a coincidence in the FA 43mm design! Does not make this equation less of a fact, if true. I my case, I simply found the FL more useful than my 50mm lenses, as I had with my "M" 40mm before it, and the images just seemed to look better. I did eventually notice the difference in perspective in some images, though slight. The FA 43mm f/1.9 also presented a noticeably brighter VF when used on the same body compared with my "M" 40mm f/2.8 lens. Keeping an eye on lens testing, which back then included measuring actual FL, I recall an observation being made by some reviewers that at least one reason for the odd FLs of the Limiteds was accuracy. I was aware that many or most lenses were off somewhat from their claimed FL compared to their actual tested FL. The Limiteds were right on. This fact reinforced the reputation of precision in design and construction of the Limited Lenses. Regarding "quick shift", it can be a useful function at times. I have used it with my DA Limiteds and other DA lenses on occasion. But although I most often use AF, I don't need "quick shift" so often as to say I miss that feature when using a lens that does not have it. When one needs it, it is nice to have, and it is a plus for Pentax lenses compared to other systems, yet it is not a deciding factor for me in lens choice. It simply had not come along yet when the FA lenses were designed, and not something I think about. Whether I will choose to use my FA 43mm or my DA 40mm depends more on whether I'll likely need a bit more in the frame or whether I'll likely need a bit more aperture speed and brighter VF. Last edited by mikesbike; 11-12-2019 at 08:08 PM.

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11-12-2019, 05:41 AM	#32
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by aslyfox not what I need to hear The question is : would you have a use for the 77? I think we've established that it's a fantastic lens. But would you use it? If the answer is no, then the point is moot. If you ARE looking for a compact, beautifully made portrait lens capable of delivering among the best K-mount has to offer, then by all means go for it.

11-12-2019, 07:40 AM	#33
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,583	Originally posted by bdery The question is : would you have a use for the 77? I think we've established that it's a fantastic lens. But would you use it? If the answer is no, then the point is moot. If you ARE looking for a compact, beautifully made portrait lens capable of delivering among the best K-mount has to offer, then by all means go for it. not looking seriously now but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon I would never expect to get a new one

11-12-2019, 05:22 PM	#34
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by y0chang Wonderful recap, I now own the FA 31mm and the FA 77mm im 2/3 the way to the fabled FA limited trio. This reminds me of this article which was a summary of a Japanese article that was translated about Jun Hirakawa. Lessons from a Legendary Lens Designer \| Photoblog \| The Northcoast Photographer "The Limited Lenses are being developed with the ideal of high quality rendering in mind. They represent a break from preconceived notions concerning the importance of numerical evaluations in lens design. Instead, we wanted to make a lens that would produce beautifully rendered, unforgettable images. " The FA limited are one of the last of the types of lens that create images that do this. The DFA 50 is close but it trades sharpness for lightness. Cheers, thanks for posting that link

11-12-2019, 08:19 PM	#36
Pentikonian Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 780	That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting!

11-13-2019, 05:53 AM - 1 Like	#37
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by aslyfox not looking seriously now but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon I would never expect to get a new one I got mine for 500$ CAD, expecting to play with it and resell it to cover my expenses. That idea lasted less than 5 minutes after I used the lens.

11-14-2019, 09:33 PM	#39
Snapppy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 485	Wonderful recap and very interesting history. I love stories like this, with trying new things and making timeless products. I got my first of the three, the 43mm, a few months ago after some skepticism about the three amigos. Well, I am no longer a skeptic, and notice I said first of three. I think I will have to try them all at some point

11-14-2019, 09:47 PM	#40
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by bdery I got mine for 500$ CAD, expecting to play with it and resell it to cover my expenses. That idea lasted less than 5 minutes after I used the lens. Before I got my new job I was considering selling my copy but then I looked at the images from it and forgot about that idea, and now I have a K1 so that ship has sailed and she will be staying in my lens cabinet.

11-15-2019, 06:04 AM	#41
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by SSGGeezer she will be staying in my lens cabinet. Shouldn't be OUTSIDE that cabinet?

11-15-2019, 07:30 AM	#42
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by bdery Shouldn't be OUTSIDE that cabinet? If I am not using her at that very moment, She stays in the box, where I can see her when I lie down to go to sleep at night!

11-16-2019, 01:51 PM	#43
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,225	That’s a cool story. Thanks. I’d probably like the 31 best because of how I normally shoot, but it will be a while -Eric

11-18-2019, 07:48 PM	#44
y0chang Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: United States Posts: 793	After using the FA limiteds for a while, I realize the vignetting is actually intentional. Its actually optical vignetting creating an apodization filter like effect to create beautiful bokeh and transitions. Its actually a quiet genius by the lens designer, Jun Hirakawa for the original 43mm and 77mm and copied by the FA 31mm.

11-18-2019, 08:38 PM	#45
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,583	Originally posted by aslyfox . . . but if I ever saw one at " that price " [ if you know what I mean ] I might change my mind I seriously don't expect to see one at " that price " any time soon . . . well what is it say they - you keep looking and you might find what you are looking for I found a FA 77 Limited being sold by a member in the Marketplace at a price I decided I could accept Black, made in Japan, with the original box, caps and pouch and the pouch has gold lettering should be here Wednesday