New HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F1.4 still coming in 2019?

**Serkevan** · 11-12-2019, 07:40 AM

Half of those things are not even needed to stay "competitive". The astrotracer basically removes most of the need for a very fast UWA lens (20-24-35), while the 150-450 plus TC gets to 600.

100-400/4? HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO. The Canon 100-400/4.5-5.6 is 2000 bucks and weighs 1.7kg, imagine the cost and weight of a constant aperture zoom. In fact, I think no one has a constant aperture 100-400. The closest is the Sigma 100-300/4, which is already large and expensive on top of being old.

The macros, like Sandy said, don't make a lot of sense.

Like, quite literally the *only* lenses that make sense are the 17-35 (in a f/4 or so aperture, with a small size and weight) and... 20 or 24 (ideally a 20 or even 19) f/2 or 1.8 compact, weather sealed prime. In fact, let it be the HD Pentax-D FA 19 mm f/3.9 WR Limited, keep it under 300 g and I'll be a happy camper.

KiloHotelphoto · 11-12-2019, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

Half of those things are not even needed to stay "competitive". The astrotracer basically removes most of the need for a very fast UWA lens (20-24-35), while the 150-450 plus TC gets to 600.

100-400/4? HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO. The Canon 100-400/4.5-5.6 is 2000 bucks and weighs 1.7kg, imagine the cost and weight of a constant aperture zoom. In fact, I think no one has a constant aperture 100-400. The closest is the Sigma 100-300/4, which is already large and expensive on top of being old.

The macros, like Sandy said, don't make a lot of sense.

Like, quite literally the *only* lenses that make sense are the 17-35 (in a f/4 or so aperture, with a small size and weight) and... 20 or 24 (ideally a 20 or even 19) f/2 or 1.8 compact, weather sealed prime. In fact, let it be the HD Pentax-D FA 19 mm f/3.9 WR Limited, keep it under 300 g and I'll be a happy camper.

Canon makes a 200-400 F4 with built in 1.4tc, it’s a fantastic lens.

**Serkevan** · 11-12-2019, 08:24 AM

Yeah, I forgot that one, but the point still stands: it's also $11k and 3.6 kg, which means Pentax will sell what, a couple hundred in total? They will not make that.

**jatrax** · 11-12-2019, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by 08amczb

Yes you are right. Although I would like to see a competitive lineup.At least:-24-70 F2.8 (done)-70-200 F2.8 (done)-15-30 F2.8 (done)-17-35-70-200 F4-100-400 F4-70-300-150-450 (done)-150-600-20 F1.4-24 F1.4-35 F1.4-50 F1.4 (done)-85 F1.4-20 F1.8-24 F1.8-35 F1.8-50 F1.8 (done)-85 F1.8-50 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)-100 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)-200 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)It takes decades to release all these lenses...

Given the new reality of the camera market I suspect that is never gong to happen. Those eagerly awaiting a full line up of new glass or even any significant number of new lenses are going to be disappointed. I don't (quite) think that Pentax is done bringing out new glass but I do think the development cycle has been greatly stretched out. Instead of 1 or 2 new lenses per year it might be 1 new lens every 2 or 3 years.

Those who like to make photographs will be fine, those that must have a new lens on a regular basis will need to move to a different brand. The market is simply not there to support the investment to continue developing new lenses. I think we will see the 70-200 f/4 sometime in 2020. The 85 f/1.4 might never happen now. I am thinking of the Q line which is has never been discontinued but has been allowed to quietly whither away.
It is difficult to envision a world without multiple camera vendors based on my world experience but I am sure it was difficult for people to envision a world without the horse as the only means of transportation. In the next few years we might see the loss of several vendors and picking which ones will survive is going to be difficult. Right now the survivors will be the ones that do not over extend themselves and need huge volumes of sales to cover the development costs and overhead.

KiloHotelphoto · 11-12-2019, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

Yeah, I forgot that one, but the point still stands: it's also $11k and 3.6 kg, which means Pentax will sell what, a couple hundred in total? They will not make that.

I don’t think they could sell 10.

**Serkevan** · 11-12-2019, 09:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto

I don’t think they could sell 10.

Probably more accurate, but I didn't want to sound all gloomy and doomy

In the end, we do not *need* half of the lenses we *want* (I do not "need" the new 70-200/4 which will probably be WR, I can simply not go out when it rains. The Tokina 70-210/4.5 makes very good pictures already!). And that's not even getting into the "want" to "I would actually buy" ratio... which is what Ricoh actually wants.

08amczb · 11-12-2019, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

ROFL. At Least? You are dreaming. Seriously. Get over it. Don't forget DSLR's are already a struggling market.

At best, we'll see ONE sub f/2.0 prime at 20mm, 24mm, 35mm and 85mm. We already have stellar zooms to cover those focal lengths at f/2.8
We already have a brilliant 150-450. There is no viable market for largely duplicate 100-400 and 150-600 lenses. Won't. Happen.
And your macro wish list is just silly. 200/2.8 is unusable at close focus, and the current 50mm and 100mm are already pretty good. Silent AF is a sideshow for macro lenses.

This is Pentax we're talking about here. They have never tried to be Nikon or Canon, and they never will.

Sorry, 100-400 should be 4.5-5.6 and the current 150-450 is totally fine for this purpose.

What the matter with 200/2.8? F2.8 is for brighter viewfinder.

I know it wont happen. I've already switched to Nikon, I miss the small Pentax primes and the ergonomics, but I wouldn't switch back. My PZ-1p and K1000 stays with me with a bunch of primes. In the far future I may buy a Pentax DSLR just for enjoying it again.

**Serkevan** · 11-12-2019, 09:42 AM

How many 200mm f/2.8 macro lenses are out there? I couldn't find any. The closest you get is 200/4 from Nikon, the 180/3.5 Canon or the 150/2.8 Irix (which is manual focus only). You have to sacrifice either speed, reach, silent AF -AF at all for the Irix!- or a combination of these compromises. Yet you think Pentax needs something that no other company has ever made (to my knowledge) to "be competitive".

Don't get me wrong, going to another brand that better satisfies your needs is always the right thing to do. Pentax is admittedly lacking* in some regards -let's not kid ourselves-. The thing is that some times those "holes" in the lineup/performance/whatever are more perceived than real. I have to ask, what made you change to Nikon?

KiloHotelphoto · 11-12-2019, 09:52 AM

I wonder at what point does a lens get put on the roadmap. The 85 1.4 was on in February of 2017, getting close to three years. Do they just put it on when they decide to look into making a lens or do they reach a point in development and then put it on?

People have been looking forward to this lens for years and still nothing. Maybe they should hold off putting things on the roadmap until they are further along in development and have a more realistic time for release.

Looking at how Canon has announced and released RF lenses to me seems like a better approach. I don’t think anyone expects Ricoh to release at the rate Canon has done but if they announce and release in a reasonable timeframe I think that would be a better approach than teasing users for years.

PentaPrime · 11-12-2019, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

You may have noticed that various lenses that were on previous versions of the roadmap have disappeared. Just because something is proposed or under development does not mean the product will launch. The "roadmap" is not a description of a release queue.

Steve

So you're saying they might scrap this new 85mm star lens altogether? I understand there are significant factors beyond the company's control, but why announce something that doesn't stand much chance of coming to pass? It is only rational to presume that by announcing the lens, they are committing to make it unless serious misfortune intervenes.

stevebrot · 11-12-2019, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by PentaPrime

It is only rational to presume that by announcing the lens, they are committing to make it unless serious misfortune intervenes.

When the D FA* 85/1.4 is announced, there will likely be a home page article and a sounding of trumpets. Until then, the lens exists only as a concept display at a trade show and a name in the roadmap row labeled 2019 or later. Having a name is a big thing, but not the same as a product announcement. IIRC, the now-missing D FA fisheye zoom had a name, but is no longer on the map.

Steve

PentaPrime · 11-12-2019, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

When the D FA* 85/1.4 is announced, there will likely be a home page article and a sounding of trumpets.

Fair point. So I guess the roadmap really is more of a wishlist and not an actual guide to product development.

08amczb · 11-12-2019, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

How many 200mm f/2.8 macro lenses are out there?

I consider the Sigma 180 F2.8 macro a 200mm macro candidate. You are right, F4 is enough.

**Kevin B123** · 11-12-2019, 12:05 PM

I can't see that a 200mm f2.8 macro will offer anything over this:
SMC Pentax-FA* 200mm F4 Macro ED [IF] Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

And that was too expensive for the market at the time.

Anyway, glass half full time: when the 85 f1.4 and 70-200 f4 are released, then there will be space for something else on the road map and we can rinse and repeat

**clackers** · 11-12-2019, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by PentaPrime

Fair point. So I guess the roadmap really is more of a wishlist and not an actual guide to product development.

Exactly!

If it were a 'release schedule', it'd be called that!

11-12-2019, 09:42 AM	#38
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	How many 200mm f/2.8 macro lenses are out there? I couldn't find any. The closest you get is 200/4 from Nikon, the 180/3.5 Canon or the 150/2.8 Irix (which is manual focus only). You have to sacrifice either speed, reach, silent AF -AF at all for the Irix!- or a combination of these compromises. Yet you think Pentax needs something that no other company has ever made (to my knowledge) to "be competitive". Don't get me wrong, going to another brand that better satisfies your needs is always the right thing to do. Pentax is admittedly lacking* in some regards -let's not kid ourselves-. The thing is that some times those "holes" in the lineup/performance/whatever are more perceived than real. I have to ask, what made you change to Nikon? Last edited by Serkevan; 11-12-2019 at 09:48 AM.

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11-12-2019, 07:40 AM	#31
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Half of those things are not even needed to stay "competitive". The astrotracer basically removes most of the need for a very fast UWA lens (20-24-35), while the 150-450 plus TC gets to 600. 100-400/4? HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO. The Canon 100-400/4.5-5.6 is 2000 bucks and weighs 1.7kg, imagine the cost and weight of a constant aperture zoom. In fact, I think no one has a constant aperture 100-400. The closest is the Sigma 100-300/4, which is already large and expensive on top of being old. The macros, like Sandy said, don't make a lot of sense. Like, quite literally the only lenses that make sense are the 17-35 (in a f/4 or so aperture, with a small size and weight) and... 20 or 24 (ideally a 20 or even 19) f/2 or 1.8 compact, weather sealed prime. In fact, let it be the HD Pentax-D FA 19 mm f/3.9 WR Limited, keep it under 300 g and I'll be a happy camper.

11-12-2019, 08:09 AM	#32
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	Originally posted by Serkevan Half of those things are not even needed to stay "competitive". The astrotracer basically removes most of the need for a very fast UWA lens (20-24-35), while the 150-450 plus TC gets to 600. 100-400/4? HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO. The Canon 100-400/4.5-5.6 is 2000 bucks and weighs 1.7kg, imagine the cost and weight of a constant aperture zoom. In fact, I think no one has a constant aperture 100-400. The closest is the Sigma 100-300/4, which is already large and expensive on top of being old. The macros, like Sandy said, don't make a lot of sense. Like, quite literally the only lenses that make sense are the 17-35 (in a f/4 or so aperture, with a small size and weight) and... 20 or 24 (ideally a 20 or even 19) f/2 or 1.8 compact, weather sealed prime. In fact, let it be the HD Pentax-D FA 19 mm f/3.9 WR Limited, keep it under 300 g and I'll be a happy camper. Canon makes a 200-400 F4 with built in 1.4tc, it’s a fantastic lens.

11-12-2019, 08:24 AM	#33
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Yeah, I forgot that one, but the point still stands: it's also $11k and 3.6 kg, which means Pentax will sell what, a couple hundred in total? They will not make that.

11-12-2019, 08:32 AM	#34
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by 08amczb Yes you are right. Although I would like to see a competitive lineup.At least:-24-70 F2.8 (done)-70-200 F2.8 (done)-15-30 F2.8 (done)-17-35-70-200 F4-100-400 F4-70-300-150-450 (done)-150-600-20 F1.4-24 F1.4-35 F1.4-50 F1.4 (done)-85 F1.4-20 F1.8-24 F1.8-35 F1.8-50 F1.8 (done)-85 F1.8-50 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)-100 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)-200 Macro F2.8 (SDM/DC/PLM)It takes decades to release all these lenses... Given the new reality of the camera market I suspect that is never gong to happen. Those eagerly awaiting a full line up of new glass or even any significant number of new lenses are going to be disappointed. I don't (quite) think that Pentax is done bringing out new glass but I do think the development cycle has been greatly stretched out. Instead of 1 or 2 new lenses per year it might be 1 new lens every 2 or 3 years. Those who like to make photographs will be fine, those that must have a new lens on a regular basis will need to move to a different brand. The market is simply not there to support the investment to continue developing new lenses. I think we will see the 70-200 f/4 sometime in 2020. The 85 f/1.4 might never happen now. I am thinking of the Q line which is has never been discontinued but has been allowed to quietly whither away. It is difficult to envision a world without multiple camera vendors based on my world experience but I am sure it was difficult for people to envision a world without the horse as the only means of transportation. In the next few years we might see the loss of several vendors and picking which ones will survive is going to be difficult. Right now the survivors will be the ones that do not over extend themselves and need huge volumes of sales to cover the development costs and overhead.

11-12-2019, 08:53 AM	#35
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	Originally posted by Serkevan Yeah, I forgot that one, but the point still stands: it's also $11k and 3.6 kg, which means Pentax will sell what, a couple hundred in total? They will not make that. I don’t think they could sell 10.

11-12-2019, 09:06 AM - 1 Like	#36
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto I don’t think they could sell 10. Probably more accurate, but I didn't want to sound all gloomy and doomy In the end, we do not need half of the lenses we want (I do not "need" the new 70-200/4 which will probably be WR, I can simply not go out when it rains. The Tokina 70-210/4.5 makes very good pictures already!). And that's not even getting into the "want" to "I would actually buy" ratio... which is what Ricoh actually wants.

11-12-2019, 09:16 AM	#37
08amczb Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 796	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock ROFL. At Least? You are dreaming. Seriously. Get over it. Don't forget DSLR's are already a struggling market. At best, we'll see ONE sub f/2.0 prime at 20mm, 24mm, 35mm and 85mm. We already have stellar zooms to cover those focal lengths at f/2.8 We already have a brilliant 150-450. There is no viable market for largely duplicate 100-400 and 150-600 lenses. Won't. Happen. And your macro wish list is just silly. 200/2.8 is unusable at close focus, and the current 50mm and 100mm are already pretty good. Silent AF is a sideshow for macro lenses. This is Pentax we're talking about here. They have never tried to be Nikon or Canon, and they never will. Sorry, 100-400 should be 4.5-5.6 and the current 150-450 is totally fine for this purpose. What the matter with 200/2.8? F2.8 is for brighter viewfinder. I know it wont happen. I've already switched to Nikon, I miss the small Pentax primes and the ergonomics, but I wouldn't switch back. My PZ-1p and K1000 stays with me with a bunch of primes. In the far future I may buy a Pentax DSLR just for enjoying it again.

11-12-2019, 09:52 AM	#39
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	I wonder at what point does a lens get put on the roadmap. The 85 1.4 was on in February of 2017, getting close to three years. Do they just put it on when they decide to look into making a lens or do they reach a point in development and then put it on? People have been looking forward to this lens for years and still nothing. Maybe they should hold off putting things on the roadmap until they are further along in development and have a more realistic time for release. Looking at how Canon has announced and released RF lenses to me seems like a better approach. I don’t think anyone expects Ricoh to release at the rate Canon has done but if they announce and release in a reasonable timeframe I think that would be a better approach than teasing users for years.

11-12-2019, 10:03 AM	#40
PentaPrime Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Calgary Posts: 65 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot You may have noticed that various lenses that were on previous versions of the roadmap have disappeared. Just because something is proposed or under development does not mean the product will launch. The "roadmap" is not a description of a release queue. Steve So you're saying they might scrap this new 85mm star lens altogether? I understand there are significant factors beyond the company's control, but why announce something that doesn't stand much chance of coming to pass? It is only rational to presume that by announcing the lens, they are committing to make it unless serious misfortune intervenes.

11-12-2019, 10:15 AM	#41
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by PentaPrime It is only rational to presume that by announcing the lens, they are committing to make it unless serious misfortune intervenes. When the D FA* 85/1.4 is announced, there will likely be a home page article and a sounding of trumpets. Until then, the lens exists only as a concept display at a trade show and a name in the roadmap row labeled 2019 or later. Having a name is a big thing, but not the same as a product announcement. IIRC, the now-missing D FA fisheye zoom had a name, but is no longer on the map. Steve

11-12-2019, 10:18 AM	#42
PentaPrime Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Calgary Posts: 65 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot When the D FA* 85/1.4 is announced, there will likely be a home page article and a sounding of trumpets. Fair point. So I guess the roadmap really is more of a wishlist and not an actual guide to product development.

11-12-2019, 11:50 AM	#43
08amczb Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 796	Originally posted by Serkevan How many 200mm f/2.8 macro lenses are out there? I consider the Sigma 180 F2.8 macro a 200mm macro candidate. You are right, F4 is enough.

11-12-2019, 12:05 PM	#44
Kevin B123 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,176	I can't see that a 200mm f2.8 macro will offer anything over this: SMC Pentax-FA* 200mm F4 Macro ED [IF] Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database And that was too expensive for the market at the time. Anyway, glass half full time: when the 85 f1.4 and 70-200 f4 are released, then there will be space for something else on the road map and we can rinse and repeat

11-12-2019, 04:23 PM	#45
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by PentaPrime Fair point. So I guess the roadmap really is more of a wishlist and not an actual guide to product development. Exactly! If it were a 'release schedule', it'd be called that!