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12-11-2019, 03:14 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
there's hope for a HD version then !
Would you rather see the HD version of the 12-24 it more new lenses filling gaps in the lineup?

12-11-2019, 03:36 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
All i meant was that if in Pentax land the zooms are just as good as the primes it means that the primes aren't up to scratch.
That is an interesting turn of logic...based of course on assumptions that may be difficult to support.



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12-11-2019, 03:46 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Would you rather see the HD version of the 12-24 it more new lenses filling gaps in the lineup?
I believe we all prefer gap fillers as 11-18 can somehow replace 12-24
12-11-2019, 05:52 PM   #49
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the 10-17 can de-fish nicely in LR . . .

12-11-2019, 06:23 PM - 2 Likes   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Keep in mind that the DA15 has excessive field curvature. This sometimes works well for me, because I don't shoot "flat" landscapes as often as I shoot immersive stuff - like being surrounded by brush - where having a curved focal plane can be beneficial.

Weighing the pros and cons of each lens, despite my fondness for the DA15 - and some of that has to do with the beauty of the lens itself and the tactile sensation of handling it - I would keep the 12-24 and sell the 15, if I had to.

My observations match those at Optical Limits...




My observations also. But I would not sell my DA 15mm Limited, because it is so small I carry it in the frontal pocket of my camera case all the time. A lens is as good as it can be only when it is carried along.

The most reasonable explanation for the discontinuance of the long-established and fine-performing DA 12-24mm is the Pentax/Tokina relationship with this lens. Then there is the competition from the lower-priced but excellent Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM, which I now have as well.

Despite offering the superb DA* 11-18mm f/2.8 lens, it would be a deficit not to also offer a fine-performing linear ultra-wide DA zoom lens for those unable to afford or justify spending for the DA* lens. A less expensive lens than the old DA model could be in the mix. It would not have to be a constant-aperture design, say f/3.5-4.5 and with HD coatings, a DC motor, and WR. It could even surpass the performance of the old lens, by having less CA problems.
12-11-2019, 08:50 PM - 1 Like   #51
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Right now the lens, in the USA, is for sale new for about $700. That seems about $200 high for a lens that has been around this long. Maybe my expectations are off. Or maybe it just doesn't make sense to sell this lens anymore.
12-11-2019, 09:17 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Despite offering the superb DA* 11-18mm f/2.8 lens, it would be a deficit not to also offer a fine-performing linear ultra-wide DA zoom lens for those unable to afford or justify spending for the DA* lens. A less expensive lens than the old DA model could be in the mix. It would not have to be a constant-aperture design, say f/3.5-4.5 and with HD coatings, a DC motor, and WR. It could even surpass the performance of the old lens, by having less CA problems.
This reminds me of Tamron 10-24mm. It fits most of the description with the exception of WR. Too bad that Tamron also discontinues that one too.

To be honest, if it is all about licensing or relationship between Ricoh Pentax and Tokina, I am not expecting Pentax to come up with a replacement very soon. Still, there are possibilities that Pentax might accept a licensing deal with Tamron (10-24mm f/3.5-4.5) or even Tokina (a new lens design for a replacement if any).

Of course, having more lenses choices for the ecosystem is great, but this is nothing to be worried. Most of us shoot with what we could afford that is what we currently have anyway.

12-11-2019, 09:45 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Lensrentals have persisted in saying that primes are better. "Stack of primes" is a myth. They have to be of similar generation and ambition for the above to be true of course.
I don't understand what you mean by " 'Stack of primes' is a myth". After being raised using prime lenses, in 1995 I discovered zoom lenses. I choose my perspective and then I choose my focal length. I could lug eleven prime lenses in my bag, but I do carry a {Sigma} 10-20mm lens. After choosing my perspective, I zoom to the focal length that provides the framing I want. Using prime lenses, I would have to try several of those lenses and find which one provides the framing I want.
12-11-2019, 10:35 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't understand what you mean by " 'Stack of primes' is a myth". After being raised using prime lenses, in 1995 I discovered zoom lenses. I choose my perspective and then I choose my focal length. I could lug eleven prime lenses in my bag, but I do carry a {Sigma} 10-20mm lens. After choosing my perspective, I zoom to the focal length that provides the framing I want. Using prime lenses, I would have to try several of those lenses and find which one provides the framing I want.
The term "stack of primes" is applied to a zoom lens that is very sharp - sharp as a prime - throughout its range.
12-12-2019, 01:13 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is an interesting turn of logic...based of course on assumptions that may be difficult to support.



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As I said its based on lensrentals saying that the moving parts of zooms mean that copy variation, tilts, decentering etc make them perform worse than primes. Particularly when it comes to edge of frame. If pentax zooms are better than their primes it means they havent made equal effort with the primes. It is significantly easier to ensure qa and tolerances with primes.
12-12-2019, 06:35 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
The term "stack of primes" is applied to a zoom lens that is very sharp - sharp as a prime - throughout its range.
My zooms are as sharp as I can see at normal viewing - if prime is sharper, I don’t really care {because I don’t see it}.
12-12-2019, 04:27 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Keep in mind that the DA15 has excessive field curvature. This sometimes works well for me, because I don't shoot "flat" landscapes as often as I shoot immersive stuff - like being surrounded by brush - where having a curved focal plane can be beneficial.Weighing the pros and cons of each lens, despite my fondness for the DA15 - and some of that has to do with the beauty of the lens itself and the tactile sensation of handling it - I would keep the 12-24 and sell the 15, if I had to.My observations match those at Optical Limits...
The Optical Limits test results show more even resolution in the DA 12-24 but more centre sharpness in the DA 15 (both tested on a K10D). (Of course they didn't test the 12-24 at 15mm, but the results at 12mm and 18mm are pretty similar, so you can extrapolate to 15mm.) But taking f8 (the typical use) the 15 actually has slightly higher numbers for borders and extremes than the 12-24; maybe they don't seem as high because the centre is about 200 LW/ph more than the borders/extremes. Yeah, and because of the field curvature too, I guess.

The other big difference is the much higher CA in the 12-24, even at f8 and f11. That matches my experience with both lenses too.

I like the 12-24, but IMO the 15 has more zing, in the Limited way.

Last edited by Des; 12-13-2019 at 01:25 AM.
12-13-2019, 11:10 AM - 1 Like   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
The Optical Limits test results show more even resolution in the DA 12-24 but more centre sharpness in the DA 15 (both tested on a K10D). (Of course they didn't test the 12-24 at 15mm, but the results at 12mm and 18mm are pretty similar, so you can extrapolate to 15mm.) But taking f8 (the typical use) the 15 actually has slightly higher numbers for borders and extremes than the 12-24; maybe they don't seem as high because the centre is about 200 LW/ph more than the borders/extremes. Yeah, and because of the field curvature too, I guess.

The other big difference is the much higher CA in the 12-24, even at f8 and f11. That matches my experience with both lenses too.

I like the 12-24, but IMO the 15 has more zing, in the Limited way.
The 15 just nails shots with the potential for bad flare - you get lovely shots without awful flare where the 12-24 would fail. the 12-24 isn't bad - just the 15 is so good at that.
12-14-2019, 03:23 PM - 2 Likes   #59
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I own both the DA 12-24mm and DA 15mm. The DA 15 has more pop and contrast that the DA 12-24mm (not that the 12-24mm isnt bad, it is still good), its more resistant to flare and ghosting, and it has the convenience of a really good range for landscapes of 18 to 36mm FF-equiv. The DA 12-24 has better corners at lower apertures and it has no field curvature and is easy to correct distortions with lens profiles. The DA 15mm has a bit of field curvature (which leads to the slightly worse corners if the subject is flat). Lens corrections will pull out already slightly weak corners in the DA 15 and really make them worse like trying to spread too little butter on toast to the corners. Ironically the zoom has less distortion than the prime in this case. Yet the DA has a trick that no landscape lens I own at least can pull off, the contrast is amazing in backlit scenes. Shoot a landscape into the setting or rising sun, and you will just be amazed at the DA 15mm.



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12-14-2019, 04:15 PM - 2 Likes   #60
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Would be a pity if the DA 12-24 is not replaced with something similar - that is, a cheaper, lighter and more compact rectilinear UWA zoom than the DA*11-18. Our comparisons with the 15 Ltd don't detract from the worth of the 12-24. There's a place in the bag for both. I agree with those who have suggested that a makeover like that for the 10-17 fisheye (ideally adding WR as well) would give the 12-24 a new lease on life.

So much to like about the 12-24













Last edited by Des; 12-14-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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