Do I have the rare Takumar 50 1.4?

reh321 · 12-22-2019, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Wasp

By the way, the rarity of the eight element is hard to establish. They are said to be rare, but in reality they are not that rare. There are fewer of them round, but Asahi Optical Company still made 130 000 of them before they decided that it was not profitable enough. How many good ones are still out there? Your guess is as good as mine.

There are really two questions out there
1. How rare are the eight-element lenses?
2. Are photos taken with the seven-element lens as good as those taken with the eight-element lens?

As far as the first question goes, we can guess that the seven-element lens is more common these days, but we don't really know.

As far as the second - and more important - question goes, I can tell you that either lens takes fine photos. Those who built the lenses apparently thought that the eight-element provided better rendering, but we don't know exactly how they judged that. We do know that neither lens comes up to the standards of a modern lens - these are not "perfect" by modern standards - but they are very good lenses, and either one will fit in the corner of my bag just for the possibility that I may need a 50mm f/1.4 lens.

Wasp · 12-22-2019, 03:11 PM

Legend has it that the Asahi engineers built the eight element to show Zeiss a thing or two. Sadly it didn't last long - about three years - before the accountants realized that there was no profit in it. A lot of those lens triplets at the heart of the beast must have failed to line up after being glued together. I wonder if Zeiss got the message.

The seven element was born. The engineers did a fine job, the accountants were satisfied and it reigned, in three different guises, for more than a decade. Then the K mount was born and it was rebranded as a Pentax. This makes the eight element rare in comparison to the seven element, that much we know.

It seems ironic that Asahi quietly made the change. There is no marking on either version that indicates what it is. Only a few subtle differences that can be spotted only after some internet research (mostly on this very site). In a a roundabout way this reminds me of another classic - the VW Beetle. The original air cooled version was never badged as or officially referred to as any sort of insect.

reh321 · 12-22-2019, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Wasp

Legend has it that the Asahi engineers built the eight element to show Zeiss a thing or two. Sadly it didn't last long - about three years - before the accountants realized that there was no profit in it. A lot of those lens triplets at the heart of the beast must have failed to line up after being glued together. I wonder if Zeiss got the message.

The seven element was born. The engineers did a fine job, the accountants were satisfied and it reigned, in three different guises, for more than a decade. Then the K mount was born and it was rebranded as a Pentax. This makes the eight element rare in comparison to the seven element, that much we know.

It seems ironic that Asahi quietly made the change. There is no marking on either version that indicates what it is. Only a few subtle differences that can be spotted only after some internet research (mostly on this very site). In a a roundabout way this reminds me of another classic - the VW Beetle. The original air cooled version was never badged as or officially referred to as any sort of insect.

The one definite difference is the 'infrared mark", which must mean that optical properties of the seven-element differ noticeably from the eight-element.

motorhead9999 · 12-22-2019, 05:53 PM

When focused to infinity, my rear element definitely doesn't protrude, so I'll presume that it's definitely the 7 element version

To be clear, I don't really care if it is the 7 or 8 element version. It was more to satisfy a curiosity after having read the lens reviews for it. I was excited to get this lens, as I really liked the sample images on the 7 element page (before I even noticed the 8 element version), so there's no worries here. I've always wanted a fast 50, and this is my one!

The most disappointing part is that it's been rainy and dreary here in central Florida, so I haven't been able to take a walk with the lens yet!

reh321 · 12-22-2019, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by motorhead9999

When focused to infinity, my rear element definitely doesn't protrude, so I'll presume that it's definitely the 7 element version

To be clear, I don't really care if it is the 7 or 8 element version. It was more to satisfy a curiosity after having read the lens reviews for it. I was excited to get this lens, as I really liked the sample images on the 7 element page (before I even noticed the 8 element version), so there's no worries here. I've always wanted a fast 50, and this is my one!

The most disappointing part is that it's been rainy and dreary here in central Florida, so I haven't been able to take a walk with the lens yet!

We spent something like eight days in your state last month {we spent most of the time around Fort Lauderdale, then St. Augustine}. You should be glad the state lived up to its "Sun State" reputation; I hope you have your opportunity soon; I believe you will be very happy with how scenes are rendered by this lens.

7.62lew · 12-23-2019, 06:13 AM

Enjoy the lens. I have both the 7 and 8 element. They are both really good. I was thinking I would shoot with both and decide which one to keep but I can make up my mind which one to let go!

motorhead9999 · 12-23-2019, 03:26 PM

Well, we finally got a break in the clouds, and I got to walk around my mom's garden taking some photos with it. What a lens!

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

View Picture EXIF

reh321 · 12-23-2019, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by motorhead9999

Well, we finally got a break in the clouds, and I got to walk around my mom's garden taking some photos with it. What a lens!

There must be imperfections on the edges - you may have to zoom way in, but they are there somewhere ..... or at least explanations of modern lens designs says.

But, yes, these are nice images - I never have been a fan of pixel peeking to find defects.

7.62lew · 12-23-2019, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by motorhead9999

Well, we finally got a break in the clouds, and I got to walk around my mom's garden taking some photos with it. What a lens!

Nice. Love the colors.

**i_trax** · 12-24-2019, 12:03 AM

Apparently the 7 element lens have a better ( newer) coating.
8 element is fine for BW images, 7 element is better for colour.

BillO · 12-24-2019, 07:52 AM

My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has:

IR mark close to the left of the 4
378000 on the back of the switch
White A and red M
The rear element protrudes slightly.
Weighs 233g
Serial number beginning with 228

So it seems to have elements of both.

I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart.

Wasp · 12-24-2019, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by BillO

My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has:

IR mark close to the left of the 4
378000 on the back of the switch
White A and red M
The rear element protrudes slightly.
Weighs 233g
Serial number beginning with 228

So it seems to have elements of both.

I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart.

No need for dismantling.

Just post a few pictures of it. I am sure that someone here will be able to tell you what it is.

**monochrome** · 12-24-2019, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by BillO

My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has:

IR mark close to the left of the 4
378000 on the back of the switch
White A and red M
The rear element protrudes slightly.
Weighs 233g
Serial number beginning with 228

So it seems to have elements of both.

I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart.

AOCo was quite frugal. There are many internet stories of “transition” lenses and cameras as parts inventory from prior releases was used up on the early production of their replacements. I have read discussion of such transition lenses in the ST50/1.4 series.

Wasp · 12-24-2019, 10:14 AM

I have one of the "rare" second generation M 28mm f/2.8 lenses. One day I might sell it and retire with the proceeds.

7.62lew · 12-24-2019, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Wasp

By the way, the rarity of the eight element is hard to establish. They are said to be rare, but in reality they are not that rare. There are fewer of them round, but Asahi Optical Company still made 130 000 of them before they decided that it was not profitable enough. How many good ones are still out there? Your guess is as good as mine.

One thing rare about the 8 element is getting one at a low price

(compared to the 7 element lens). Unless you find one bundled and/or seller doesn't know what it is.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Your vehicle: what do you have, why do you like it, and what do you not like?	Auzzie-Phoenix	General Talk	2980	6 Days Ago 05:06 PM
For Sale - Sold: Rare Pentax K 85mm f1.8 and rare SMC Takumar 85mm f1.8 (free worldwide s (Worl	EricR	Sold Items	5	03-26-2011 01:10 AM

12-22-2019, 02:05 PM	#16
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Wasp By the way, the rarity of the eight element is hard to establish. They are said to be rare, but in reality they are not that rare. There are fewer of them round, but Asahi Optical Company still made 130 000 of them before they decided that it was not profitable enough. How many good ones are still out there? Your guess is as good as mine. There are really two questions out there 1. How rare are the eight-element lenses? 2. Are photos taken with the seven-element lens as good as those taken with the eight-element lens? As far as the first question goes, we can guess that the seven-element lens is more common these days, but we don't really know. As far as the second - and more important - question goes, I can tell you that either lens takes fine photos. Those who built the lenses apparently thought that the eight-element provided better rendering, but we don't know exactly how they judged that. We do know that neither lens comes up to the standards of a modern lens - these are not "perfect" by modern standards - but they are very good lenses, and either one will fit in the corner of my bag just for the possibility that I may need a 50mm f/1.4 lens.

12-22-2019, 03:11 PM	#17
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	Legend has it that the Asahi engineers built the eight element to show Zeiss a thing or two. Sadly it didn't last long - about three years - before the accountants realized that there was no profit in it. A lot of those lens triplets at the heart of the beast must have failed to line up after being glued together. I wonder if Zeiss got the message. The seven element was born. The engineers did a fine job, the accountants were satisfied and it reigned, in three different guises, for more than a decade. Then the K mount was born and it was rebranded as a Pentax. This makes the eight element rare in comparison to the seven element, that much we know. It seems ironic that Asahi quietly made the change. There is no marking on either version that indicates what it is. Only a few subtle differences that can be spotted only after some internet research (mostly on this very site). In a a roundabout way this reminds me of another classic - the VW Beetle. The original air cooled version was never badged as or officially referred to as any sort of insect.

12-22-2019, 04:36 PM	#18
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Wasp Legend has it that the Asahi engineers built the eight element to show Zeiss a thing or two. Sadly it didn't last long - about three years - before the accountants realized that there was no profit in it. A lot of those lens triplets at the heart of the beast must have failed to line up after being glued together. I wonder if Zeiss got the message. The seven element was born. The engineers did a fine job, the accountants were satisfied and it reigned, in three different guises, for more than a decade. Then the K mount was born and it was rebranded as a Pentax. This makes the eight element rare in comparison to the seven element, that much we know. It seems ironic that Asahi quietly made the change. There is no marking on either version that indicates what it is. Only a few subtle differences that can be spotted only after some internet research (mostly on this very site). In a a roundabout way this reminds me of another classic - the VW Beetle. The original air cooled version was never badged as or officially referred to as any sort of insect. The one definite difference is the 'infrared mark", which must mean that optical properties of the seven-element differ noticeably from the eight-element.

12-22-2019, 05:53 PM	#19
motorhead9999 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Photos: Albums Posts: 114 Original Poster	When focused to infinity, my rear element definitely doesn't protrude, so I'll presume that it's definitely the 7 element version To be clear, I don't really care if it is the 7 or 8 element version. It was more to satisfy a curiosity after having read the lens reviews for it. I was excited to get this lens, as I really liked the sample images on the 7 element page (before I even noticed the 8 element version), so there's no worries here. I've always wanted a fast 50, and this is my one! The most disappointing part is that it's been rainy and dreary here in central Florida, so I haven't been able to take a walk with the lens yet!

12-22-2019, 09:30 PM	#20
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by motorhead9999 When focused to infinity, my rear element definitely doesn't protrude, so I'll presume that it's definitely the 7 element version To be clear, I don't really care if it is the 7 or 8 element version. It was more to satisfy a curiosity after having read the lens reviews for it. I was excited to get this lens, as I really liked the sample images on the 7 element page (before I even noticed the 8 element version), so there's no worries here. I've always wanted a fast 50, and this is my one! The most disappointing part is that it's been rainy and dreary here in central Florida, so I haven't been able to take a walk with the lens yet! We spent something like eight days in your state last month {we spent most of the time around Fort Lauderdale, then St. Augustine}. You should be glad the state lived up to its "Sun State" reputation; I hope you have your opportunity soon; I believe you will be very happy with how scenes are rendered by this lens.

12-23-2019, 06:13 AM	#21
7.62lew Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,192	Enjoy the lens. I have both the 7 and 8 element. They are both really good. I was thinking I would shoot with both and decide which one to keep but I can make up my mind which one to let go!

12-23-2019, 03:54 PM	#23
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by motorhead9999 Well, we finally got a break in the clouds, and I got to walk around my mom's garden taking some photos with it. What a lens! There must be imperfections on the edges - you may have to zoom way in, but they are there somewhere ..... or at least explanations of modern lens designs says. But, yes, these are nice images - I never have been a fan of pixel peeking to find defects.

12-23-2019, 05:17 PM	#24
7.62lew Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,192	Originally posted by motorhead9999 Well, we finally got a break in the clouds, and I got to walk around my mom's garden taking some photos with it. What a lens! Nice. Love the colors.

12-24-2019, 12:03 AM	#25
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	Apparently the 7 element lens have a better ( newer) coating. 8 element is fine for BW images, 7 element is better for colour.

12-24-2019, 07:52 AM	#26
BillO Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 89	My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has: IR mark close to the left of the 4 378000 on the back of the switch White A and red M The rear element protrudes slightly. Weighs 233g Serial number beginning with 228 So it seems to have elements of both. I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart.

12-24-2019, 08:22 AM	#27
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	Originally posted by BillO My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has: IR mark close to the left of the 4 378000 on the back of the switch White A and red M The rear element protrudes slightly. Weighs 233g Serial number beginning with 228 So it seems to have elements of both. I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart. No need for dismantling. Just post a few pictures of it. I am sure that someone here will be able to tell you what it is.

12-24-2019, 09:40 AM	#28
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by BillO My Super-Tak 50/1.4 has: IR mark close to the left of the 4 378000 on the back of the switch White A and red M The rear element protrudes slightly. Weighs 233g Serial number beginning with 228 So it seems to have elements of both. I think the only way to really decide is to pull it apart. AOCo was quite frugal. There are many internet stories of “transition” lenses and cameras as parts inventory from prior releases was used up on the early production of their replacements. I have read discussion of such transition lenses in the ST50/1.4 series.

12-24-2019, 10:14 AM	#29
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	I have one of the "rare" second generation M 28mm f/2.8 lenses. One day I might sell it and retire with the proceeds.

12-24-2019, 11:52 AM	#30
7.62lew Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,192	Originally posted by Wasp By the way, the rarity of the eight element is hard to establish. They are said to be rare, but in reality they are not that rare. There are fewer of them round, but Asahi Optical Company still made 130 000 of them before they decided that it was not profitable enough. How many good ones are still out there? Your guess is as good as mine. One thing rare about the 8 element is getting one at a low price (compared to the 7 element lens). Unless you find one bundled and/or seller doesn't know what it is.