Lens Bokeh

DAP · 03-04-2007, 12:47 PM

Lens bokeh seems to have become a pretty large determining factor in the public opinion of lens IQ (Sheesh - I don't even remember discussing the the concept of bokeh 15 years ago). It seems that everybody is seeking "butter smooth" backgrounds in their photos. While I do enjoy this effect in general, I also enjoy some of the harsher bokeh that certain lenses (think Nikon :-D)produce - for instance, (I'll give you a pentax example) given the right background a K105/2.8 can produce a harsh, dynamic bokeh (I like to think of it as a "cubist" background) - that can give a photo a kind of dark and unsettled feeling (I mean this in a good way!). Anybody else out there enjoy occasional "harsh" bokeh or am I off the wall?

Last edited by DAP; 03-04-2007 at 12:48 PM. Reason: mistake

clarenceclose · 03-04-2007, 01:37 PM

It is good to have variety because we all have different visions of the final product.

Were everything the same, then everything would be the same and the world would be vanilla.

I personally like the variety as it adds different dynamics to photos and I very much enjoy seeing other's vision for their work.

normant · 03-04-2007, 07:30 PM

I usually dislike harsh or discordant bokeh, but agree that sometimes it adds a desirable effect. This was taken with a 200 mm SMC Takumar f4; I find the "cubist" effect works here when the image is desaturated to black and white.

Jonas B · 03-04-2007, 07:35 PM

I'm always in for something about lens character. Do you have that sample somewhere?

carpents · 03-04-2007, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Jonas B

I'm always in for something about lens character. Do you have that sample somewhere?

One that came to mind for me:

Perhaps because of the water droplets being the main focus of the image, the awful donut hole bokeh is OK?

(Taken from this thread about a Rubinar 300mm lens.)

FotoPete · 03-04-2007, 08:39 PM

ew..donuts...haha

Nice photos! Wow that rubinar is sharp!

roentarre · 03-04-2007, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by carpents

water droplets being the main focus of the image, the awful donut hole bokeh is OK?

(Taken from this thread about a Rubinar 300mm lens.)

I love the bokeh a lot. Great effects

Abbazz · 03-04-2007, 11:30 PM

Three pictures taken at full bore with my 1.5/85mm Helios 40-2 lens, to illustrate smooth and creamy bokeh:

Cheers,

Abbazz

Abbazz · 03-05-2007, 02:21 AM

Now, some samples of a more "disturbing" bokeh:

"Swirly" bokeh

"Double line" bokeh

These shot were taken close up and wide open with a lens that I love very much: the Classic Heliar 2/50mm, which is a great portrait lens, but is better used at some distance from the subject or closed down a bit. I have learnt to live with its bokeh and I must admit that I kinda like it for certain subjects.

Cheers,

Abbazz

rfortson · 03-06-2007, 01:06 PM

Great examples, Abbazz! I haven't really studied bokeh that much, but seeing examples side by side really illustrates it well.

Personally, I don't really find bokeh "good" or "bad". It just "is". Even the donut bokeh doesn't really bother me, though I guess it could distract from certain pictures.

Abbazz · 03-06-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by rfortson

Great examples, Abbazz! I haven't really studied bokeh that much, but seeing examples side by side really illustrates it well.

Personally, I don't really find bokeh "good" or "bad". It just "is". Even the donut bokeh doesn't really bother me, though I guess it could distract from certain pictures.

Thanks Russ.

I agree concerning the bokeh. I shoot a lot of pictures with old 3, 4 or 5 element lenses. The bokeh, especially for close-ups is always weird:

Mamiya Sekor 3.5/75mm on Mamiya 6 Automat 2

Zeiss Opton Tessar 3.5/105mm on Super Ikonta 531/2

Zeiss Opton Tessar 3.5/105mm on Super Ikonta 531/2

If you ask the advice of "bokeh connoisseurs" regarding the above pictures, they will tell you that this is ugly bokeh. Maybe, but I find that it adds character to the pictures, therefore I like it. Some kind of an old fashioned je-ne-sais-quoi that helps my pictures stand out from the crowd.

Cheers,

Abbazz

slip · 03-06-2007, 07:55 PM

I think these are all great examples, but I would like to see the exact same scene shot with the lens with the "creamy" bokeh and the lens with the "ugly" bokeh. (exactly same time of day and lighting, etc)
the reason is that with my sigma 17-70 sometimes it is the background scene and lighting/ colors of the scene that makes a bokeh smooth or slightly blocky looking. I only have one lens so it would be impossible to make direct comparisions.

thanks

cheers

randy

DanielBoone · 03-06-2007, 08:07 PM

New to the forum... what is bokeh???

Jonas B · 03-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/3634-answer-questi...html#post30086

DanielBoone · 03-06-2007, 08:27 PM

Thanks for the quick reply Jonas. So to clarify... is it a combination of astetics and IQ in the OOF areas? For example, excessive grainyness and a very under exposed distracting area, or does it apply to onle one or the other?

Thanks in advance!
Dan

03-04-2007, 12:47 PM	#1
DAP Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 151	Lens Bokeh Lens bokeh seems to have become a pretty large determining factor in the public opinion of lens IQ (Sheesh - I don't even remember discussing the the concept of bokeh 15 years ago). It seems that everybody is seeking "butter smooth" backgrounds in their photos. While I do enjoy this effect in general, I also enjoy some of the harsher bokeh that certain lenses (think Nikon :-D)produce - for instance, (I'll give you a pentax example) given the right background a K105/2.8 can produce a harsh, dynamic bokeh (I like to think of it as a "cubist" background) - that can give a photo a kind of dark and unsettled feeling (I mean this in a good way!). Anybody else out there enjoy occasional "harsh" bokeh or am I off the wall? Last edited by DAP; 03-04-2007 at 12:48 PM. Reason: mistake

03-04-2007, 07:30 PM	#3
normant New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 18	I usually dislike harsh or discordant bokeh, but agree that sometimes it adds a desirable effect. This was taken with a 200 mm SMC Takumar f4; I find the "cubist" effect works here when the image is desaturated to black and white. Last edited by normant; 05-08-2007 at 05:17 PM.

03-04-2007, 11:30 PM	#8
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Creamy Bokeh Three pictures taken at full bore with my 1.5/85mm Helios 40-2 lens, to illustrate smooth and creamy bokeh: Cheers, Abbazz

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03-04-2007, 01:37 PM	#2
clarenceclose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,506	It is good to have variety because we all have different visions of the final product. Were everything the same, then everything would be the same and the world would be vanilla. I personally like the variety as it adds different dynamics to photos and I very much enjoy seeing other's vision for their work.

03-04-2007, 07:35 PM	#4
Jonas B Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 810	I'm always in for something about lens character. Do you have that sample somewhere?

03-04-2007, 08:36 PM	#5
carpents Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,420	Originally posted by Jonas B I'm always in for something about lens character. Do you have that sample somewhere? One that came to mind for me: Perhaps because of the water droplets being the main focus of the image, the awful donut hole bokeh is OK? (Taken from this thread about a Rubinar 300mm lens.)

03-04-2007, 08:39 PM	#6
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	ew..donuts...haha Nice photos! Wow that rubinar is sharp!

03-04-2007, 09:10 PM	#7
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	Originally posted by carpents water droplets being the main focus of the image, the awful donut hole bokeh is OK? (Taken from this thread about a Rubinar 300mm lens.) I love the bokeh a lot. Great effects

03-05-2007, 02:21 AM	#9
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Now, some samples of a more "disturbing" bokeh: "Swirly" bokeh "Double line" bokeh These shot were taken close up and wide open with a lens that I love very much: the Classic Heliar 2/50mm, which is a great portrait lens, but is better used at some distance from the subject or closed down a bit. I have learnt to live with its bokeh and I must admit that I kinda like it for certain subjects. Cheers, Abbazz

03-06-2007, 01:06 PM	#10
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	Great examples, Abbazz! I haven't really studied bokeh that much, but seeing examples side by side really illustrates it well. Personally, I don't really find bokeh "good" or "bad". It just "is". Even the donut bokeh doesn't really bother me, though I guess it could distract from certain pictures.

03-06-2007, 07:22 PM	#11
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Originally posted by rfortson Great examples, Abbazz! I haven't really studied bokeh that much, but seeing examples side by side really illustrates it well. Personally, I don't really find bokeh "good" or "bad". It just "is". Even the donut bokeh doesn't really bother me, though I guess it could distract from certain pictures. Thanks Russ. I agree concerning the bokeh. I shoot a lot of pictures with old 3, 4 or 5 element lenses. The bokeh, especially for close-ups is always weird: Mamiya Sekor 3.5/75mm on Mamiya 6 Automat 2 Zeiss Opton Tessar 3.5/105mm on Super Ikonta 531/2 Zeiss Opton Tessar 3.5/105mm on Super Ikonta 531/2 If you ask the advice of "bokeh connoisseurs" regarding the above pictures, they will tell you that this is ugly bokeh. Maybe, but I find that it adds character to the pictures, therefore I like it. Some kind of an old fashioned je-ne-sais-quoi that helps my pictures stand out from the crowd. Cheers, Abbazz

03-06-2007, 07:55 PM	#12
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	I think these are all great examples, but I would like to see the exact same scene shot with the lens with the "creamy" bokeh and the lens with the "ugly" bokeh. (exactly same time of day and lighting, etc) the reason is that with my sigma 17-70 sometimes it is the background scene and lighting/ colors of the scene that makes a bokeh smooth or slightly blocky looking. I only have one lens so it would be impossible to make direct comparisions. thanks cheers randy

03-06-2007, 08:07 PM	#13
DanielBoone New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 17	New to the forum... what is bokeh???

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03-06-2007, 08:12 PM	#14
Jonas B Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 810	Here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/3634-answer-questi...html#post30086

03-06-2007, 08:27 PM	#15
DanielBoone New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 17	Thanks for the quick reply Jonas. So to clarify... is it a combination of astetics and IQ in the OOF areas? For example, excessive grainyness and a very under exposed distracting area, or does it apply to onle one or the other? Thanks in advance! Dan