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01-23-2020, 01:24 PM - 5 Likes   #1
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D FA 70-210/4.0 as Tamron Rebadge

Multiple comments have been made since yesterday regarding the new D FA 70-210/4.0 and its cousin in the Tamron product line. Words like "clone", "rebadge", and "over-priced rehash" have been tossed around along with suggestions that the Tamron product is the same except for labels. Below is the essence of a comment I made on another thread, that I thought might stand on its own for general consideration...enjoy

The D FA 70-210/4.0 is not a clone or rebadge. It differs obviously in multiple respects from the similar Tamron offerings for Nikon and Canon (neither identical to the other). The short list runs like this:
  • Two anomalous dispersion elements (if present on the Tamron product, they are not called out despite being available on other Tamron offerings)
  • Quick Shift (may or may not be Tamron's full-time manual focus override)*
  • Focus Limiter (+)
  • HD, SP coatings (+)
  • SDM (may or may not be Tamron USD)**
  • WR (may or may not be Tamron MR)***
  • No VC
  • No Tamron Tap-in Console support
  • No Tamron 6-year warranty
  • No matched 1.4x and 2.0x TCs
  • Lighter (40g)
  • Pentax-sourced electronics
  • Pentax standards for mount
  • Does not require purchase of a Canon or Nikon body (+)
Some might suggest that the $299 difference in price ($1100 USD vs $799 USD) might justify purchase of a used Nikon D810 or Canon 5D Mark IV (roughly equivalent to a K-1); or a used Canon 80D (had trouble finding a Nikon model equivalent to the K-70) to mate with a Tamron. Good luck. I expect that within 6 months time, MSRP will be at or below $799 USD.


Steve

(...Hey Ricoh/Pentax! How about that six-year warranty!?...)

* Stated behavior is somewhat different than classic Pentax Quick Shift as describe in the D FA 70-210/4.0 promotional materials.

** There has been conjecture with the D FA 24-70/2.8 and D FA 15-30/2.8 that the "SDM" motor those lenses was actually the USD ring motor from the Tamron line. Ricoh simply states that it is a different design that the original, unreliable, SDM ring motors used in certain DA* lenses.

*** The seven WR seals in the D FA 70-120/4.0 are at the same locations (duh) as the MR (moisture resistant) seals in the Tamron product. Whether they are the same material and/or specification as the MR seals is not known. To the best of my knowledge, there is no reason to assume any decrease in performance or durability than the seals in other Pentax WR lenses.


Last edited by stevebrot; 01-24-2020 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Clarifications
01-23-2020, 01:33 PM   #2
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The base for the Pentax is the Tamron 70 210 No doubt about that.
01-23-2020, 02:02 PM   #3
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Good post, Steve.

FYI - I don't consider Quick Shift to be an additional feature on the Pentax, since the Tamron USD lenses I own in A-mount also have full time manual focus override. I'm interested, however, to see if both the focus and zoom rings rotate in the expected direction for Pentax. I do consider the 40g weight saving - even if it's a result of VC removal - to be a feature in itself.

In summary, and in case you should want to update your initial post, I see the Pentax variant differences as:
- Focus limiter
- HD coating
- SP coating (additional to HD)
- No VC
- 40g weight saving
- K-mount compatibility
- Firmware that is not using reverse-engineered protocol
- Minor costmetics
- No Tamron 6-year warranty
Possible additional differences that we can't yet confirm:
- Two anamalous dispersion elements
- AF motor (same, or different & equivalent / better / worse?)
- WR level (same, or different & equivalent / better / worse?)
- Zoom and focus ring direction per Pentax standard (if different to Tamron version)
- No Tamron Tap-in Console support (YET)
- No matched 1.4x and 2.0x TCs (YET)
As to the price difference, it varies by country. Here in the UK, the Tamron in Canon mount is currently available for just GBP £479 (USD $628) on short-term discount, though it's more typically priced at GBP £550 (USD $720) after gradual discounting since launch. The launch price of the D FA70-210/4 over here, though, is an eye-watering GBP £1,199 (USD $1,570). That said, I really don't think we should get hung up on the UK / EU launch pricing. We need to see how it settles down, and what discounts are available at key times of the year (they can be very good here).

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-23-2020 at 03:04 PM.
01-23-2020, 02:21 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
No matched 1.4x and 2.0x TCs (YET)
Interestingly, if you read the Ricoh/Pentax material linked elsewhere it mentions a 1.4x TC. Hmm! Or is that just APS-C?

01-23-2020, 02:26 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Interestingly, if you read the Ricoh/Pentax material linked elsewhere it mentions a 1.4x TC. Hmm! Or is that just APS-C?
Until we hear otherwise, I guess we have to assume that's the existing HD 1.4x AW for APS-C. To be confirmed...
01-23-2020, 02:28 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm interested, however, to see if both the focus and zoom rings rotate in the expected direction for Pentax.
I believe they will, a review of the Tamron I posted recently shows the zoom in Pentax direction.
01-23-2020, 02:31 PM   #7
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The lens has No provision for a tripod mount

01-23-2020, 02:36 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Riddler Quote
The lens has No provision for a tripod mount
To be absolutely accurate, there is provision for such since a tripod collar can be fitted; but it's not included. The OEM version is eye-wateringly expensive for what it is, but third party versions are inexpensive. That's exactly the same for the Tamron lens... so, for Steve's short-list of differences, this isn't a factor.
01-23-2020, 02:39 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
I believe they will, a review of the Tamron I posted recently shows the zoom in Pentax direction.
Excellent. Thanks for that, Kevin
01-23-2020, 02:40 PM   #10
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I think Steve and Mike have hit the nail on the head. It is the same basic optical formula and casing (if that is the right word) but it has various modifications that differentiate it. The next thing we will hear is cries of "Why didn't we get it sooner?" But if Ricoh was waiting for the two anomalous dispersion elements and the new coating to be perfected then that may provide an answer. If these turn out to be what make it really "sing" then it will have been worth the delay. However, I suspect that, modern lenses being what they are, the differences will not be detectable in the usual you-tube "let's look at the difference between the Tamron and the Pentax" video. In any case, such comparisons can't be done on identical bodies. The weight difference is accounted for by the loss of the in-lens stabilisation mechanism and differences in the length of the lens to get the required registration distance.
01-23-2020, 03:01 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Until we hear otherwise, I guess we have to assume that's the existing HD 1.4x AW for APS-C. To be confirmed...
That is the one mentioned on the Ricoh sites at present.


Steve
01-23-2020, 03:12 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm interested, however, to see if both the focus and zoom rings rotate in the expected direction for Pentax
Perspective from the rear of the lens:
  • Clockwise to zoom longer
  • Clockwise to infinity focus
Looks like Pentax direction to me.

(Based on the promotional images on the Ricoh Japan site.)


Steve
01-23-2020, 07:11 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Perspective from the rear of the lens:
  • Clockwise to zoom longer
  • Clockwise to infinity focus
Looks like Pentax direction to me.

(Based on the promotional images on the Ricoh Japan site.)


Steve
It goes in the other direction in the southern hemisphere.
01-23-2020, 08:31 PM   #14
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From where i'm standing there is an important point be taken into account when buying this lens:


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No Tamron Tap-in Console support
That may be problematic considering the focal length range of this lens. Unless pentax is going to come out with their own version of the tap-in console puck.

Last edited by Digitalis; 01-23-2020 at 09:19 PM.
01-23-2020, 09:05 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
but not including a tripod collar right out of the box [when the cheaper tamron product does]
They don't. It is an additional cost option, at least here in the U.S.


Steve
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