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02-13-2020, 09:04 AM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
Which of the 5 focal lengths you listed do you not like? :P
Tried 31mm and zoom not fans of those

I have the other FA and the SMC DA Limiteds

02-13-2020, 09:20 AM - 1 Like   #62
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For me, on my crop body, my answer is definately the 40. I own a DA 40 and I think I've taken a couple shots a year with it. Easily could live without it.

On full frame it's quite different. I really like 40mm there both for the field of view it provides and the physical size of the lens (M 40 there). If I owned a full-frame autofocusing k-mount camera like a K-1 or MZ-3 I would definately want a DA 40 XS or Ltd in my kit.
02-13-2020, 01:54 PM   #63
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Hi

Many thanks to all that have replied.

Iíve found the replies interesting and incredibly informative, some of you are a mine of information so again thank you.

Iím not 100% decided but Iíve narrowed the choice down to either the DA15 and I have to admit thatís my preferred at the minute or the Da 16-45 which also appeals for versatility but I wonder with that one if it would be much of a step up from my 18-55 kit lens which does have the benefit of being weather resistant..

Best wishes

Barry
02-13-2020, 02:11 PM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigbaz Quote
Da 16-45 which also appeals for versatility but I wonder with that one if it would be much of a step up from my 18-55 kit lens which does have the benefit of being weather resistant..
It is, at least for me. Not only is it sharper, but the extra 2mm at the wide end makes a big difference.

02-13-2020, 02:30 PM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigbaz Quote
Da 16-45 which also appeals for versatility but I wonder with that one if it would be much of a step up from my 18-55 kit lens which does have the benefit of being weather resistant.
Yes, it's an upgrade, no worries about that. You will have :
- A wider angle of view, which is important for you (the reason for you to start this thread)
- Sharper than the 18-55, definitely
- Constant max aperture (it's F4 at both 16 and 45)
- 8-blade aperture (18-55 has only six) for better bokeh
- The fact that this lens is fully extended at wide angle may help in street photography (people believe you are zooming in and they are not in the frame, fools they are!)


Main downside are lack of WR as you noticed (but the DA 15 is not WR either !), and in-body flash will not work correctly (the lens is too big at 16mm and will cast a shadow at the bottom of the picture).

And don't forget that if you ever meet another photographer, he/she will frown if they see yet another 18-55.

More seriously, 16-45 zoom or 15 prime? You should ask yourself if you can live with a fixed focal length. Fortunately, it's easy to check. Spend a week with your 18-55 at the 18 setting, never touching it during that period. If it works well, and if you feel ready to change lenses between 15 and 18-55 when you really need a longer focal length, then take the Limited. Otherwise, the 16-45 is your best option.
02-13-2020, 02:34 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bertrand3000 Quote
And don't forget that if you ever meet another photographer, he/she will frown if they see yet another 18-55.
Very important point! (and I still like my old 18-55)
02-13-2020, 02:54 PM - 3 Likes   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigbaz Quote
I’m not 100% decided but I’ve narrowed the choice down to either the DA15 and I have to admit that’s my preferred at the minute or the Da 16-45 which also appeals for versatility but I wonder with that one if it would be much of a step up from my 18-55 kit lens which does have the benefit of being weather resistant..
I can't comment on the 16-45 v 18-55. But I'd suggest that you think about the kit you'd like to have as a whole. Some thoughts on that theme:
- The 16-xx zoom might be a good introduction to wide angle. Wide angle (and particularly wider than 16mm on APS-C) requires some new skills, particularly in composition and post-processing. (The corollary is that it offers new opportunities for creativity.) For some people, 16mm is enough to scratch the wide angle itch. If you find that it is not, you might then consider an ultrawide such as those that have been mentioned (10-17 fisheye, 10-20, 12-24, 10mm prime etc, or the current hero, the DA*11-18mm f2.8).
- The 16-45 has been out of production for some time now. There are many reports of used copies that have developed wobbly barrels over time.
- If you get a 16-45 you might spend time wondering whether you should have just shelled out for the 16-85 for its WR, extra reach and (probably) higher image quality.
- If you get a 16-xx zoom you probably would not swap it out for the 15 as often as you would with your 18-55 or say the 18-135 or the 20-40 (I say this from experience with each of these two).
- If you decide to keep the 18-55 as your general purpose wide-normal lens, or to replace it with something like an 18-135 or 20-40 or Tamron/Sigma 17-50 f2.8, the 15 will make an excellent companion. It's so pocketable that it never stays at home.
- The DA 15 Ltd is a mind-controlling lens, which as others have suggested is easy to carry and a joy to use. Once you get a taste for Limited lenses it's hard to stop. The 15 makes a great combination with the DA 20-40 Ltd, because they produce a similar look. (No doubt the same is true of the 21 too.) Of course the down side is that this combination requires more lens changes. Personally I'm coming to use that combination more often because I think the lens changes are worth it. But for travel I have tended to use the 18-135 or the 12-24 and leave that lens on for the day, depending on how much wide angle is likely to be on the agenda.

Last edited by Des; 02-13-2020 at 04:26 PM.
02-13-2020, 05:36 PM - 2 Likes   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by sheld Quote
If I were to buy a rectalinear ultrawide; the Sigma 10-20mm F/3.5 seems to be the best choice (I don't own it) available new for ~$330 or so.
I keep seeing this trope. I've had both the Sigma 10-20/3.5 and 8-16 and the 8-16 is better in every regard (at least my copies). I love the 8-16 so much that even after I sold it going to FF I bought another one because I missed it so much, even though it's on APS-C. (I also re-bought another DA15.)

I'm not saying the 10-20/3.5 is a bad lens, it's great, but the Sigma 8-16 IMO is superior in most regards (for my needs). I guess I'm saying that, at the very least, the notion that the 10-20/3.5 is unequivocally the best choice should be challenged.

YMMV.

02-13-2020, 07:03 PM - 4 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by krazykat Quote
I keep seeing this trope. I've had both the Sigma 10-20/3.5 and 8-16 and the 8-16 is better in every regard (at least my copies). I love the 8-16 so much that even after I sold it going to FF I bought another one because I missed it so much, even though it's on APS-C. (I also re-bought another DA15.)

I'm not saying the 10-20/3.5 is a bad lens, it's great, but the Sigma 8-16 IMO is superior in most regards (for my needs). I guess I'm saying that, at the very least, the notion that the 10-20/3.5 is unequivocally the best choice should be challenged.

YMMV.
Some Sigma 8-16 images.






It is however, one of my least used lenses because of it's size.
02-13-2020, 09:19 PM - 2 Likes   #70
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I would not trade the quite large non-WR DA 16-45mm lens, though it is a good lens, for your more practical DA 18-55mm WR which is also pretty good. Far better and more practical is the DA 18-135mm DC WR and better built, yet more compact than the 16-45mm. But still we are addressing an ultra-wide angle.

The Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 is a very good lens, having very good optical performance. However, it is quite large. While it yields yet another 2mm wider than the 10-20mm f/3.5, that 8mm setting comes with a huge degree of vignetting, having to go to 12mm to get it to settle down, and f/4.5-5.6 is much slower, much less aperture than f/3.5 across the entire zoom range, which would be far better for low light situations. I had considered the 8-16mm, as going to 8mm has its appeal. But 10mm is also extremely wide.

Both tested very well for sharpness. The 10-20mm tested even better overall, except for just the extreme corners only at 10mm, which some testers made an issue of. But what? In a wide angle photo at 10mm with so much in it, to make a comment about the extreme corner, while otherwise the edges of the frame are still coming in at very good to excellent and the central area is excellent, all from wide open on up a large aperture range? An outstanding performance, I would say. Zooming through, including out to maximum FL of 20mm, the lens tests often excellent both centrally and even at edges, with even the extreme corners very good except at 10mm- again exceptional.

Vignetting performance is far better than the 8-16mm, and it can take a screw-on filter, which the 8-16mm cannot, and which is also likely to be more expensive, even used.

Last edited by mikesbike; 02-13-2020 at 09:46 PM.
02-14-2020, 04:16 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
I can't comment on the 16-45 v 18-55. But I'd suggest that you think about the kit you'd like to have as a whole. Some thoughts on that theme:
- The 16-xx zoom might be a good introduction to wide angle. Wide angle (and particularly wider than 16mm on APS-C) requires some new skills, particularly in composition and post-processing. (The corollary is that it offers new opportunities for creativity.) For some people, 16mm is enough to scratch the wide angle itch. If you find that it is not, you might then consider an ultrawide such as those that have been mentioned (10-17 fisheye, 10-20, 12-24, 10mm prime etc, or the current hero, the DA*11-18mm f2.8).
- The 16-45 has been out of production for some time now. There are many reports of used copies that have developed wobbly barrels over time.
- If you get a 16-45 you might spend time wondering whether you should have just shelled out for the 16-85 for its WR, extra reach and (probably) higher image quality.
- If you get a 16-xx zoom you probably would not swap it out for the 15 as often as you would with your 18-55 or say the 18-135 or the 20-40 (I say this from experience with each of these two).
- If you decide to keep the 18-55 as your general purpose wide-normal lens, or to replace it with something like an 18-135 or 20-40 or Tamron/Sigma 17-50 f2.8, the 15 will make an excellent companion. It's so pocketable that it never stays at home.
- The DA 15 Ltd is a mind-controlling lens, which as others have suggested is easy to carry and a joy to use. Once you get a taste for Limited lenses it's hard to stop. The 15 makes a great combination with the DA 20-40 Ltd, because they produce a similar look. (No doubt the same is true of the 21 too.) Of course the down side is that this combination requires more lens changes. Personally I'm coming to use that combination more often because I think the lens changes are worth it. But for travel I have tended to use the 18-135 or the 12-24 and leave that lens on for the day, depending on how much wide angle is likely to be on the agenda.
Does the wobbly barrel cause problems ?
02-14-2020, 09:51 AM - 3 Likes   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigbaz Quote
Does the wobbly barrel cause problems ?
It probably will. My DA16-45 is a good few years old, has done a trip round the world and some and does not wobble. The problem is that if you keep the quite wide lens hood on and plonk the camera down on a flat surface with the lens extended you put a lot of strain on the lens barrel and eventually it will develop a wobble. I don't use the hood and I habitually retract the lens ...
02-14-2020, 10:03 AM - 2 Likes   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigbaz Quote
Hi

Many thanks to all that have replied.

I’ve found the replies interesting and incredibly informative, some of you are a mine of information so again thank you.

I’m not 100% decided but I’ve narrowed the choice down to either the DA15 and I have to admit that’s my preferred at the minute or the Da 16-45 which also appeals for versatility but I wonder with that one if it would be much of a step up from my 18-55 kit lens which does have the benefit of being weather resistant..

Best wishes

Barry
Just so you have a visual idea on the difference between 16mm and 18mm, here's an example from the DA 16-85mm review:

02-14-2020, 11:15 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Just so you have a visual idea on the difference between 16mm and 18mm, here's an example from the DA 16-85mm review:
Excellent, thank you.
02-14-2020, 03:07 PM - 1 Like   #75
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If you are not too overloaded with information, have a look at these reviews by PF member @NorthcoastGreg (who is an excellent landscape photographer and writes very helpful "real world use" reviews):
Pentax DA 16-45 f4 | Reviews | The Northcoast Photographer
Pentax DA 15 f4 Limited | Reviews | The Northcoast Photographer
Pentax DA 16-85 f3.5-5.6 | Reviews | The Northcoast Photographer

Perhaps Greg might weigh in here, but I notice that In posts in the last few years he reflects without great fondness on the 16-45 as lacking microcontrast and colour richness, even compared to the DA 12-24, let alone the DA 15 Limited and DA 16-85.

I haven't used the 16-45 but I would make the general comment that for narrow-aperture uses it is often these factors and overall rendering, rather than sheer resolving power, that make images stand out, particularly at wide-normal focal lengths. (For telephoto and macro uses, resolution is often the distinguishing feature; at wide-normal lengths, stopped down, many lenses have adequate resolution and it's other factors that make the difference.) That's why people love the Limiteds and other lenses that have these qualities.

Last edited by Des; 02-15-2020 at 04:40 AM.
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