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02-15-2020, 02:23 PM   #1
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DA* 60-250 on FF

I got a 60-250 coming in the mail, it's intent is either to be on the KP or K-1.

I get mixed messages about its FF compatibility, some saying the baffle needs removed/replaced, others saying its unnecessary. I'm just kinda wanting to understand the mixed views, even on B&H's website there is a question about it's FF compatibility and a heap of people saying not it isn't bla bla bla, only in crop mode bla bla.

Our own review section has the lens put down as *** for unofficial full-frame compatibility (A's at every aperture and FL).

So what accounts for the mixed FF issues? Are some lens copies just different? Are some users just savy enough to know how to tidy up any left over vignetting in PP and some not?

Does removing the baffle compromise the AW/WR?


TIA!

BB

02-15-2020, 02:25 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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We take a deep dive on this topic in this article:

Modifying the DA* 60-250mm F4 for Full Frame - Introduction - In-Depth Articles

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02-15-2020, 02:35 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Thank you Adam, I just saw this after posting

Still, be nice to hear some other actual opinions on this matter.
02-15-2020, 03:04 PM   #4
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I have and use this lens a lot. It works very well on my K1. I did the modification to it myself and found it very straight forward. Work carefully and you will be fine. I do not find that there is anything to "tidy up" with the images. I've used it for 700-800 images at a clip during performances and I also don't hear it "breathing" or gasping It takes everything in stride.

02-15-2020, 03:29 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Cox Quote
I have and use this lens a lot. It works very well on my K1. I did the modification to it myself and found it very straight forward. Work carefully and you will be fine. I do not find that there is anything to "tidy up" with the images. I've used it for 700-800 images at a clip during performances and I also don't hear it "breathing" or gasping It takes everything in stride.
Did you feel the modification was really necessary? Or was it actually ok to begin with? In my mind I'm thinking it's fine left as is, perhaps just vignettes mildly but nothing that PP can't handle? Prolly totally wrong.
02-15-2020, 03:47 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Did you feel the modification was really necessary? Or was it actually ok to begin with? In my mind I'm thinking it's fine left as is, perhaps just vignettes mildly but nothing that PP can't handle? Prolly totally wrong.
Due to the number of images that I deal with, the modification was well worth it. Perhaps if I only took a few images at a time I would consider not doing it for use on FF. So it depends on your situation. When I was using this lens on a K3 it was a nonissue.

Last edited by Ray Cox; 02-15-2020 at 03:49 PM. Reason: K3 info
02-15-2020, 08:09 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Did you feel the modification was really necessary?
Yes the modification is necessary for use on FF. Unless you intend to crop every image the vignette is unacceptable with the baffle installed. Either remove the baffle or replace it with one designed for FF. Several people have been 3D printing them, that's what I used. Even with the baffle changed you will see a significant vignette but mild enough that it can be fixed in post or ignored. But IMHO the lens is not usable on FF unless modified. YMMV

02-15-2020, 08:48 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Did you feel the modification was really necessary?
I will second really necessary. I by chance yesterday was looking through test shots I had taken before doing the modification, and I was struck by how severe the vignetting was - more so than I remembered. With the updated baffles (I have both), I don't find the vignetting bothersome at all. It's easy to do and won't affect weather sealing or any other operation, and you can undo if you want, but can't imagine why you would.

Here's a shot wide open at 250 before doing the modification.
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02-15-2020, 11:23 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I will second really necessary. I by chance yesterday was looking through test shots I had taken before doing the modification, and I was struck by how severe the vignetting was - more so than I remembered. With the updated baffles (I have both), I don't find the vignetting bothersome at all. It's easy to do and won't affect weather sealing or any other operation, and you can undo if you want, but can't imagine why you would.

Here's a shot wide open at 250 before doing the modification.
Thanks everyone for these insights.

clickclick, are you able to pass the file over to me? I'd like to have a go at vignette removal in post.

So... Mr Pentax Forums. When you have given the 60-250 a straight ***'s with A's at every aperture and focal length, are you considering this rating to being with or without the baffle mod?



I guess I just find this a little confusing or misleading, in that this Unofficial rating system is applied to all other lenses that have not had baffle mods, so these 'A's, were they given before the baffle removal or not? If not what was the rating before, and if they apply only to the mod version perhaps a little additional txt in the note section to make that apparent?

Whatcha think?
02-16-2020, 06:58 AM   #10
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While I agree the modification is necessary for use on FF to avoid the vignetting it all comes down to use. Problem is I do not feel I want to test my mechanical ability to do the modification, even though it looks rather simple.

I use the lens at lot at night which makes the problem not a factor due to the type of shots. Normal daytime use is usually at higher f stops - usually over f9.

If I plan in advance the type of shooting and want to avoid the problem all together I just slap it on the K3 and the K! MII becomes the backup.

For now until I change my shooting style and it becomes too much of a hassle in post processing I will just carry on.
02-16-2020, 08:24 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
clickclick, are you able to pass the file over to me? I'd like to have a go at vignette removal in post.
Certainly. Look for a PM in a few minutes after this posting.
02-16-2020, 08:27 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave_roe Quote
While I agree the modification is necessary for use on FF to avoid the vignetting it all comes down to use. Problem is I do not feel I want to test my mechanical ability to do the modification, even though it looks rather simple.

I use the lens at lot at night which makes the problem not a factor due to the type of shots. Normal daytime use is usually at higher f stops - usually over f9.

If I plan in advance the type of shooting and want to avoid the problem all together I just slap it on the K3 and the K! MII becomes the backup.

For now until I change my shooting style and it becomes too much of a hassle in post processing I will just carry on.

It really is simple. Unless you have a tremor of your hands, I would not worry. Of course, perhaps this just means a new 70-210 is in your future.

Stopping down does make a difference in the degree of vignetting. It improves quite a bit, and you're right on shooting style.
02-16-2020, 12:51 PM   #13
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Here's my LR only vignetting removal attempt on clickclick's file from above.



Here's the top two corners tackled quickly in PS with Content Aware Fill (bottom sea corners left for comparison);



It feels like it's presenting a lot like the HD DA 20-40, the vignette is tackable, and in some instances a small crop of 36mp down to 30mp (keeping 3:2) would likely remove the vignette if preferred to visiting PS. Many of my FF HD DA 20-40 shots I have not even tackled vignette because it compliments the image. For me the places it mostly stands out and seems out of place is exactly the kinda scene that clickclick showed (and then passed onto me). Vignetting in the sky is often a real turn off for me, however some land vignetting in the bottom corners never feels quite as problematic. I've learned to just be a little mindful of where vignetting will be necessary to tackle in an image, and thus if 28mm feels about the right length then I go a tad wider to 26mm or so and crop in so that the end file is something like 30mp (this is the quickest and least painful way to approach it). Or... frame the shot with the intent to make a 4:3 aspect ratio picture instead of 3:2.

I really wish the K-1 had more than Full, Crop and 1:1 for modes. I'd love a 4:3, 16:9 etc etc. Crop just feels too much of a mp killer and overkill for so many lenses that are deemed unsuitable in FF mode. Can you imagine how many more lenses people might use on the K-1 if the review stated that the lens was fine for 4:3 and 16:9 images etc? Right now we judge the success of a lens on 3:2 which I understand however I feel should not be the be all and end all.

I can see from tracking the lens should be delivered today, oh happy days
02-16-2020, 01:50 PM   #14
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I think it cleaned up pretty well, but you won't regret doing the baffle modification.
02-16-2020, 02:02 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I think it cleaned up pretty well, but you won't regret doing the baffle modification.
So for somebody like me who doesn't have a 3D printer, how can you get the other FF baffle? Will someone here print one for me and I pay for it and shipping?
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