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02-26-2020, 03:22 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Nothing like pointing to a primary source, eh? I confused the original aero bright with the aero bright II and did not dig deep enough. My bad.
Well, just to confuse things, the specifications for the D FA70-200 mention:

* HD coating
* SP coating of the front element
* Aerobright II nano-coating of the inner elements

So, this is an HD coated lens with Aerobright II on the inner elements... and it's the same, in fact, for the D FA*50/1.4. Would the OP, I wonder, consider these to be Aerobright lenses or HD / SMC... and therefore - at the price - worthy (or not) of consideration? I'm being a tad facetious, I realise... but only a tad

Are there, in fact, any lenses that use only Aerobright (II?) coatings, or is it mainly applied to internal optical surfaces, with HD (or other) coating used for the outer elements?

Is the OP actually saying, without realising it, that he prefers the colours from a specific lens (coupled with the in-camera or raw converter's default profile(s)) rather than Aero Bright coatings (coupled with those same default profiles)? Which brings us back round to the acid test comparison of two lenses, optically identical except for coatings...


Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-27-2020 at 01:28 AM.
02-26-2020, 03:33 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
The one substantive (IMO) improvement I've noticed wrt HD vs SMC DA Limiteds is that my HD 21 Ltd has much less of an issue with the infamous "green blob" that can sometimes be provoked on the SMC 21. I've owned all of the SMC & HD DA Ltd lenses.
I had forgotten about the "green blob", but do remember some of the example photos now that you bring it to mind.


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02-26-2020, 03:42 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Are there, in fact, any lenses that use only Aerobright (II?) coatings, or is it mainly applied to internal optical surfaces, with HD (or other) coating used for the outer elements?
I read some Ricoh documentation this morning regarding HD vs. original Aero Bright. Part of the article discussed the coating process and how it differed from traditional. Included were statements indicating that HD is extremely durable due the process used while the Aero Bright process yields a coating that is prone to damage from abrasion. Whether the same applies to Aero Bright II, I don't know.

About HD Coating / Lenses / Products | RICOH IMAGING


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02-26-2020, 03:55 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
I think we all have done that

one of my favorite memories of being in Court arguing a motion was the Judge asking why both I and the opposing counsel were saying the same appellate court decision was decisive authority

I explained -

" opposing counsel is quoting from the Appellate Court's recitation of the reasoning of the lower court

I am citing to the overruling of that reasoning by the Appellate Court"

the Judge was not thrilled by the opposing counsel's mistake
That is a very funny story. I assume that the defense arguments were critically assessed from that point forward.


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02-26-2020, 04:39 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Has another production run of the FA Ltd's been required since the introduction of the K-1? If not, then Ricoh hasn't had a need to reformulate those lenses yet.
There was a large production run of FA Limiteds coincident with introduction of K-1.
02-26-2020, 04:47 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I suspect the key here is whether there has been another production run or are they still using old stock?

Once current stock runs out Ricoh will need to make a decision:
1) Discontinue the FA Limiteds
2) Re-issue as HD-FA with new coatings
3) Redesign a new line of DFA Limiteds


No way to know how they will decide but with the current camera market I do not have a lot of confidence in seeing anything except #1.
4) Continue to produce Batches of SMC FA Limiteds, just as they are, until people stop buying them.

The subject of updated Princesses comes up regularly, then dies down for a while. IMO they should not be (and won’t be) updated - they are what they are. In some ways the Princesses define Pentax and they would be crazy to change them at all.

There is zero development cost to run a new batch of SMC FA Liimiteds; there is little risk an additional production run won’t be bought. They’re legendary lenses and an aspirational putrchase for Pentax users. IMO Ricoh will (should) continue to produce the three original SMC FA Limiteds until people stop buying them - and then retire them.

I believe Ricoh will introduce new FA (not D FA) Limited lenses with modern features once they figure out how to keep them small. It would make sense to have then originals available in the catalog and line leaders.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-26-2020 at 06:00 PM.
02-26-2020, 04:48 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There was a large production run of FA Limiteds coincident with introduction of K-1.
... which suggests, I assume, that Ricoh has (or had) stocks of SMC-coated elements...

02-26-2020, 05:12 PM   #38
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Problem lies within remaining stock of glass blanks that need to be utilised. There is probably different glass compound used for SMC than used with HD or aerobright coating formula. I do remember that in one interview there was question to Ricoh rep about coating update and the answer was that they didn't like the color rendition or something like that when combined with current glass compound.
02-26-2020, 05:24 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is a very funny story. I assume that the defense arguments were critically assessed from that point forward.


Steve
well it is a true story

and a example of how I would prepared for court, I had copies of the supporting cases with me and I quickly reviewed the one in question and then provided the copy to the Judge

Last edited by aslyfox; 02-26-2020 at 05:59 PM.
02-26-2020, 05:31 PM   #40
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Personally, an HD coating but no weather seal is not a worthy update to me.
02-26-2020, 05:39 PM   #41
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All I know is I really like the DA lenses I have with HD coatings, and I did notice an improvement in clarity overall with my HD DA 55-300mm vs my original DA 55-300mm lens even though the optics themselves are identical.

Then, more recently, I saw some comparison shots of HD DA Limiteds compared to the non-HD versions, which demonstrated superiority in flair reduction and in contrast and overall clarity, confirming my impression with my DA 55-300mm lenses.

Since the FA 35mm f/2 has been re-released with the HD coating technology, which has been shown to be superior- big proof of this advantage, I see no reason not to do so with the FA Limiteds, as has been done with the DA Limiteds. Maybe this also cuts down on an exaggerated starburst effect, but for overall photography it is a real plus. I don't see the FA Limited pixie dust as arising from the effects of flair and reduced contrast. The FA Limiteds as they are now are still very fine lenses, but that does not mean they could not further benefit from this advancement, just as was the case with DA Limiteds. Who knows, it might even reduce color fringing at larger apertures as well.
02-26-2020, 05:44 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Maybe this also cuts down on an exaggerated starburst effect, but for overall photography it is a real plus.
I think this has rather to do with the use of rounded instead of straight aperture blades in the updated versions of the lenses, iirc. Smoother bokeh, but also loss of starburst potential
02-26-2020, 05:51 PM   #43
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one thought

any ' improvement ' would mean, to me, that the FA Limiteds would not be vintage lenses

that matters to me

my 43mm and 77mm limiteds are MIJ

and yes, when used on my K 3, K 3 II or K P, they are not " vintage " lenses in the sense of the APS-C sensor

they are when I use them with my M E Super, Super Program and Z 1

Last edited by aslyfox; 02-26-2020 at 05:57 PM.
02-26-2020, 07:15 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I think this has rather to do with the use of rounded instead of straight aperture blades in the updated versions of the lenses, iirc. Smoother bokeh, but also loss of starburst potential
That makes sense. I'll take the smoother bokeh, think you.

I don't know what the original FA 35mm has, or the FA 77mm Limited- rounded or straight- but both have outstanding bokeh quality, especially the latter model. However, I have seen references that updating certain models with rounded blades as you mention has indeed resulted in improved bokeh.
02-26-2020, 07:21 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
That makes sense. I'll take the smoother bokeh, think you.

I don't know what the original FA 35mm has, or the FA 77mm Limited- rounded or straight- but both have outstanding bokeh quality, especially the latter model. However, I have seen references that updating certain models with rounded blades as you mention has indeed resulted in improved bokeh.
The

SMC F35/2, often referred to as the poor man’s FA31 Limited, has 6 aperture blades. The FA77 Limited has 9 blades.
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