"Standard" prime lens - 35mm equivalent in APS-C

Angelic Layer · 03-12-2020, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by mikesbike

I am not following this equation. Your thread topic states "35mm (film) equivalent in APS-C" for a standard prime lens. Well, a typical standard prime lens for 35mm film is the good old fast 50mm lens, usually with f/2, f/1.7, or f/1.4 as options. With Pentax, a fine-performing lens made specifically for APS-C is the DA 35mm f/2.4 and then there's the FA 35mm f/2 which was made as a moderate wide angle for 35mm film, but its focal length becomes as a 50mm would be on a film body if used on APS-C.

33mm and 35mm is close enough to be seen as equivalent, I mean when the 35mm would be 1.5 times the focal length of APS-C.

Austro-Diesel · 03-12-2020, 11:20 PM

For the case that the quite heavy barrel disortion and the limited sharpness is no problem I would recommend a HD oder SMC DA 21/3.2 Ltd. This lens captures wonderful contrasty photos with a really nice bokeh at close-ups.

Another very good lens for APS-C is the Sigma 30/1.4 Art, with very sharp centre and good corners combined with large aperture and not too big.

The historic wide angle lenses are no recommendation.

MrB1 · 03-13-2020, 12:53 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Angelic Layer

This question have probably been asked before, what would be your "standard" prime lens (focal length) of choice say for everyday use, or suitable for street?

If I'm remembering correctly, Henri Cartier Bresson - pioneer of Street Photography - and Vivian Maier - recently discovered and highly-acclaimed Street Photographer - mostly used standard lenses. The standard lens for APS-C format would be a 35mm prime lens and, unless you demand a huge aperture, there are three suitable good quality Pentax lenses in current production: SMC Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.4, HD Pentax-FA 35mm f/2, and the HD Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited Macro. The latter could be considered as a prime contender for a Carlsberg Award - probably the best APS-C standard lens in the world.

Philip

**microlight** · 03-13-2020, 02:15 AM

With Philip here. If I couldn't use my HD20-40 Ltd on my K-3II, then I’d use my SMC35/f2.4. My son has my old K-5 and uses a HD35/f2.8 Macro Limited with it: it’s a stellar lens.

Jonathan Mac · 03-13-2020, 03:10 AM

My favourite standard primes for APS-C are the DA 35mm Limited macro for Pentax and the 35mm f/1.4 for my Fujifilm setup. Both very different lenses but what they have in common is superb image quality - sharp, contrasty images with character. The new HD FA 35mm f/2 for Pentax is also very good but I feel it's not up to the standard of the DA Limited, though the larger max aperture is useful.

For a 35mm equivalent there isn't anything really close for Pentax save old 24mm primes, which are all either manual focus or large and expensive. For Fujifilm I have the 23mm f/2 which is excellent though I wish I had the f/1.4 version.

D1N0 · 03-13-2020, 04:44 AM

The most obvious candidate is the Plastic Fantastic DA 35mm 1:2.4 If you want low light performance and don't mind the size and price you can get the Sigma 35mm 1.4 Art (but I think Sigma stopped producing it for Pentax so you would have to find a used one).

**richard0170** · 03-13-2020, 05:07 AM - **1 Like**

A lot of times I hear that 4/3 sensor have a crop factor of 2 when compared to FF. This makes no practical sense to me as FF has an image ratio of 3/2. On FF or film it is considered that the fl that produces fov closest to human eye is 40-45mm. Many people though prefer something a bit wider say 35mm or a bit longer say 50mm. In APSc terms we would be looking at lenses in the range of 24mm for the 35mm equiv fov, 28 to 30mm for the 40 to 45mm equivand 35mm for the 50mm equiv, give or take the odd mm. I personally love 28 or 30mm lenses on my APSc cameras as I find them easier to compose than the slightly longer or wider lenses. There are 2 problems though for lenses on dslrs of below 35mm. First is iq. It is difficult and expensive to make high quality lenses to fit any wider lens because of the lens mount flange distance hence there is limited choice available, which is the second problem! Also I usually crop my APSc images to a 4/3 ratio.
The best advice I can give is to try out the 35mm f2. 4 as it is cheap but very good, a respected 24mm like an old Sigma Superwide again reasonably priced and something like M 28mm f3.5, probably the best value lens in that focal length which is easy to come by with decent iq. These options can be upgraded later when you have discovered the FL you like best

**kernos** · 03-13-2020, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by MrB1

If I'm remembering correctly, Henri Cartier Bresson - pioneer of Street Photography - and Vivian Maier - recently discovered and highly-acclaimed Street Photographer - mostly used standard lenses. The standard lens for APS-C format would be a 35mm prime lens and, unless you demand a huge aperture, there are three suitable good quality Pentax lenses in current production: SMC Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.4, HD Pentax-FA 35mm f/2, and the HD Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited Macro. The latter could be considered as a prime contender for a Carlsberg Award - probably the best APS-C standard lens in the world.

Philip

Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). At the same time, I wondered how folks can use a Ricoh GR 28mm without getting punched out. It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe and how much context you want in a photo. I did find out something interesting about one photographer using a GR. Many of his subjects were people who appeared like they would kill you if you looked the wrong way. They were really close and were mid level. I finally figured out the dude set the GR to catch in focus. All in all I was glad to have some distance on this photo. FA43

Lord Lucan · 03-13-2020, 06:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kernos

Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). ..... It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe

Here is an example of HC-B getting up some people's noses :-

**richard0170** · 03-13-2020, 06:38 AM

Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?.

leekil · 03-13-2020, 09:30 AM - **1 Like**

I would go with (and have) the FA31 Limited, though it's not the cheapest or smallest option. DA21 for the wider lens.

**pres589** · 03-13-2020, 09:39 AM - **1 Like**

DA 15 is like a 24 on full frame and I like that a lot.
28mm is between a 40 and 50 on full frame and that's good too. 24mm should also be nice, as it's just a bit wider. A few good options for both although nothing brand new and I think Pentax should have fixed that *years* ago.
50 and 55mm are both good short-tele options on crop and nice for portraits, kind of like an 85, just a bit wider.
Lately I've been wanting a 100 f2 with AF and I don't really care or want a macro for tighter portrait work and general shooting. Doesn't exist in this ecosystem. To try and get over that I've started watching FA 77mm prices.

A very convincing kit could be made around a DA 15, Sigma 28 1.8 EX DG, and FA 77 for a crop Pentax setup. I have the first two already.

Go get a DA 18-135 and shoot around and see what focal lengths you get a lot of keepers from and then buy based on that information.

stevebrot · 03-13-2020, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by richard0170

Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?.

She is known for her Rolleiflex work, but shot with a number of different cameras with a preference for high-end product. According to the Wikipedia...

Quote:

Over the course of her career she used Rolleiflex 3.5T, Rolleiflex 3.5F, Rolleiflex 2.8C, Rolleiflex Automat and others. She later also used a Leica IIIc, an Ihagee Exakta, a Zeiss Contarex and various other SLR cameras.

Your point regarding aspect ratio is quite valid. Crop factors are generally based on the length of the frame diagonal and work fine with formats that share the same aspect ratios and not so well with those that don't.

Steve

Angelic Layer · 03-13-2020, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

My favourite standard primes for APS-C are the DA 35mm Limited macro for Pentax and the 35mm f/1.4 for my Fujifilm setup. Both very different lenses but what they have in common is superb image quality - sharp, contrasty images with character. The new HD FA 35mm f/2 for Pentax is also very good but I feel it's not up to the standard of the DA Limited, though the larger max aperture is useful.

For a 35mm equivalent there isn't anything really close for Pentax save old 24mm primes, which are all either manual focus or large and expensive. For Fujifilm I have the 23mm f/2 which is excellent though I wish I had the f/1.4 version.

The really wide lens is expensive and like you said old.
Looking at pictures of the GR, I think it make sense to get a fixed focus APS-C mini camera like the GR or Coolpix A for the wide lens, the used price is very good, cost around the same as a good wide lens I see in some cases.
Thinking about that, I might consider one of these camera for anything below 21 or 35 as a second or dedicated purpose camera.

---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:06 AM ----------

Originally posted by richard0170

A lot of times I hear that 4/3 sensor have a crop factor of 2 when compared to FF. This makes no practical sense to me as FF has an image ratio of 3/2. On FF or film it is considered that the fl that produces fov closest to human eye is 40-45mm. Many people though prefer something a bit wider say 35mm or a bit longer say 50mm. In APSc terms we would be looking at lenses in the range of 24mm for the 35mm equiv fov, 28 to 30mm for the 40 to 45mm equivand 35mm for the 50mm equiv, give or take the odd mm. I personally love 28 or 30mm lenses on my APSc cameras as I find them easier to compose than the slightly longer or wider lenses. There are 2 problems though for lenses on dslrs of below 35mm. First is iq. It is difficult and expensive to make high quality lenses to fit any wider lens because of the lens mount flange distance hence there is limited choice available, which is the second problem! Also I usually crop my APSc images to a 4/3 ratio.
The best advice I can give is to try out the 35mm f2. 4 as it is cheap but very good, a respected 24mm like an old Sigma Superwide again reasonably priced and something like M 28mm f3.5, probably the best value lens in that focal length which is easy to come by with decent iq. These options can be upgraded later when you have discovered the FL you like best

Yes, now I have considered the option of small APS-C camera like the GR as well, as used unit may not cost a lot more than expensive wide lens, might make more sense to have a dedicated camera for anything below 35.
I like the size of m4/3 and no complaints about it, just that there isn't a lot of progress in the system and many compromises, including lens.

---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:10 AM ----------

Originally posted by kernos

Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). At the same time, I wondered how folks can use a Ricoh GR 28mm without getting punched out. It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe and how much context you want in a photo. I did find out something interesting about one photographer using a GR. Many of his subjects were people who appeared like they would kill you if you looked the wrong way. They were really close and were mid level. I finally figured out the dude set the GR to catch in focus. All in all I was glad to have some distance on this photo. FA43

Henri Cartier Bresson and Vivian have their own way to taking street photography, I like looking at their pictures, but I don't take like the way they do, and I think anyone can find their own way of taking photograph, though having an example to follow is an easier route to go.
28mm is fine, and I like wider picture to capture the atmosphere anyway.

---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:13 AM ----------

Originally posted by richard0170

Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?.

Some of my favourite pictures are those Blue Note jazz record covers taken by Francis Wolff, he uses a 3.8 75mm Rolleiflex I think.
Vivian uses both 80 and 75, but I would like to think that 75mm would capture more action.

03-13-2020, 06:18 AM - 1 Like	#39
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,977	Originally posted by kernos Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). ..... It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe Here is an example of HC-B getting up some people's noses :- Last edited by Lord Lucan; 03-13-2020 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Clarification

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03-12-2020, 11:04 PM	#31
Angelic Layer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 254 Original Poster	Originally posted by mikesbike I am not following this equation. Your thread topic states "35mm (film) equivalent in APS-C" for a standard prime lens. Well, a typical standard prime lens for 35mm film is the good old fast 50mm lens, usually with f/2, f/1.7, or f/1.4 as options. With Pentax, a fine-performing lens made specifically for APS-C is the DA 35mm f/2.4 and then there's the FA 35mm f/2 which was made as a moderate wide angle for 35mm film, but its focal length becomes as a 50mm would be on a film body if used on APS-C. 33mm and 35mm is close enough to be seen as equivalent, I mean when the 35mm would be 1.5 times the focal length of APS-C.

03-12-2020, 11:20 PM	#32
Austro-Diesel Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 78	For the case that the quite heavy barrel disortion and the limited sharpness is no problem I would recommend a HD oder SMC DA 21/3.2 Ltd. This lens captures wonderful contrasty photos with a really nice bokeh at close-ups. Another very good lens for APS-C is the Sigma 30/1.4 Art, with very sharp centre and good corners combined with large aperture and not too big. The historic wide angle lenses are no recommendation.

03-13-2020, 12:53 AM - 2 Likes	#33
MrB1 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 845	Originally posted by Angelic Layer This question have probably been asked before, what would be your "standard" prime lens (focal length) of choice say for everyday use, or suitable for street? If I'm remembering correctly, Henri Cartier Bresson - pioneer of Street Photography - and Vivian Maier - recently discovered and highly-acclaimed Street Photographer - mostly used standard lenses. The standard lens for APS-C format would be a 35mm prime lens and, unless you demand a huge aperture, there are three suitable good quality Pentax lenses in current production: SMC Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.4, HD Pentax-FA 35mm f/2, and the HD Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited Macro. The latter could be considered as a prime contender for a Carlsberg Award - probably the best APS-C standard lens in the world. Philip

03-13-2020, 02:15 AM	#34
microlight Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,129	With Philip here. If I couldn't use my HD20-40 Ltd on my K-3II, then I’d use my SMC35/f2.4. My son has my old K-5 and uses a HD35/f2.8 Macro Limited with it: it’s a stellar lens.

03-13-2020, 03:10 AM	#35
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,911	My favourite standard primes for APS-C are the DA 35mm Limited macro for Pentax and the 35mm f/1.4 for my Fujifilm setup. Both very different lenses but what they have in common is superb image quality - sharp, contrasty images with character. The new HD FA 35mm f/2 for Pentax is also very good but I feel it's not up to the standard of the DA Limited, though the larger max aperture is useful. For a 35mm equivalent there isn't anything really close for Pentax save old 24mm primes, which are all either manual focus or large and expensive. For Fujifilm I have the 23mm f/2 which is excellent though I wish I had the f/1.4 version.

03-13-2020, 04:44 AM	#36
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	The most obvious candidate is the Plastic Fantastic DA 35mm 1:2.4 If you want low light performance and don't mind the size and price you can get the Sigma 35mm 1.4 Art (but I think Sigma stopped producing it for Pentax so you would have to find a used one).

03-13-2020, 05:07 AM - 1 Like	#37
richard0170 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,034	A lot of times I hear that 4/3 sensor have a crop factor of 2 when compared to FF. This makes no practical sense to me as FF has an image ratio of 3/2. On FF or film it is considered that the fl that produces fov closest to human eye is 40-45mm. Many people though prefer something a bit wider say 35mm or a bit longer say 50mm. In APSc terms we would be looking at lenses in the range of 24mm for the 35mm equiv fov, 28 to 30mm for the 40 to 45mm equivand 35mm for the 50mm equiv, give or take the odd mm. I personally love 28 or 30mm lenses on my APSc cameras as I find them easier to compose than the slightly longer or wider lenses. There are 2 problems though for lenses on dslrs of below 35mm. First is iq. It is difficult and expensive to make high quality lenses to fit any wider lens because of the lens mount flange distance hence there is limited choice available, which is the second problem! Also I usually crop my APSc images to a 4/3 ratio. The best advice I can give is to try out the 35mm f2. 4 as it is cheap but very good, a respected 24mm like an old Sigma Superwide again reasonably priced and something like M 28mm f3.5, probably the best value lens in that focal length which is easy to come by with decent iq. These options can be upgraded later when you have discovered the FL you like best

03-13-2020, 05:09 AM	#38
kernos Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 456	Originally posted by MrB1 If I'm remembering correctly, Henri Cartier Bresson - pioneer of Street Photography - and Vivian Maier - recently discovered and highly-acclaimed Street Photographer - mostly used standard lenses. The standard lens for APS-C format would be a 35mm prime lens and, unless you demand a huge aperture, there are three suitable good quality Pentax lenses in current production: SMC Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.4, HD Pentax-FA 35mm f/2, and the HD Pentax-DA 35mm f/2.8 Limited Macro. The latter could be considered as a prime contender for a Carlsberg Award - probably the best APS-C standard lens in the world. Philip Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). At the same time, I wondered how folks can use a Ricoh GR 28mm without getting punched out. It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe and how much context you want in a photo. I did find out something interesting about one photographer using a GR. Many of his subjects were people who appeared like they would kill you if you looked the wrong way. They were really close and were mid level. I finally figured out the dude set the GR to catch in focus. All in all I was glad to have some distance on this photo. FA43

03-13-2020, 06:38 AM	#40
richard0170 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,034	Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?.

03-13-2020, 09:30 AM - 1 Like	#41
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	I would go with (and have) the FA31 Limited, though it's not the cheapest or smallest option. DA21 for the wider lens.

03-13-2020, 09:39 AM - 1 Like	#42
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	DA 15 is like a 24 on full frame and I like that a lot. 28mm is between a 40 and 50 on full frame and that's good too. 24mm should also be nice, as it's just a bit wider. A few good options for both although nothing brand new and I think Pentax should have fixed that years ago. 50 and 55mm are both good short-tele options on crop and nice for portraits, kind of like an 85, just a bit wider. Lately I've been wanting a 100 f2 with AF and I don't really care or want a macro for tighter portrait work and general shooting. Doesn't exist in this ecosystem. To try and get over that I've started watching FA 77mm prices. A very convincing kit could be made around a DA 15, Sigma 28 1.8 EX DG, and FA 77 for a crop Pentax setup. I have the first two already. Go get a DA 18-135 and shoot around and see what focal lengths you get a lot of keepers from and then buy based on that information.

03-13-2020, 10:35 AM	#43
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by richard0170 Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?. She is known for her Rolleiflex work, but shot with a number of different cameras with a preference for high-end product. According to the Wikipedia... Quote: Over the course of her career she used Rolleiflex 3.5T, Rolleiflex 3.5F, Rolleiflex 2.8C, Rolleiflex Automat and others. She later also used a Leica IIIc, an Ihagee Exakta, a Zeiss Contarex and various other SLR cameras. Your point regarding aspect ratio is quite valid. Crop factors are generally based on the length of the frame diagonal and work fine with formats that share the same aspect ratios and not so well with those that don't. Steve

03-13-2020, 11:01 AM	#44
Angelic Layer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 254 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jonathan Mac My favourite standard primes for APS-C are the DA 35mm Limited macro for Pentax and the 35mm f/1.4 for my Fujifilm setup. Both very different lenses but what they have in common is superb image quality - sharp, contrasty images with character. The new HD FA 35mm f/2 for Pentax is also very good but I feel it's not up to the standard of the DA Limited, though the larger max aperture is useful. For a 35mm equivalent there isn't anything really close for Pentax save old 24mm primes, which are all either manual focus or large and expensive. For Fujifilm I have the 23mm f/2 which is excellent though I wish I had the f/1.4 version. The really wide lens is expensive and like you said old. Looking at pictures of the GR, I think it make sense to get a fixed focus APS-C mini camera like the GR or Coolpix A for the wide lens, the used price is very good, cost around the same as a good wide lens I see in some cases. Thinking about that, I might consider one of these camera for anything below 21 or 35 as a second or dedicated purpose camera. ---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:06 AM ---------- Originally posted by richard0170 A lot of times I hear that 4/3 sensor have a crop factor of 2 when compared to FF. This makes no practical sense to me as FF has an image ratio of 3/2. On FF or film it is considered that the fl that produces fov closest to human eye is 40-45mm. Many people though prefer something a bit wider say 35mm or a bit longer say 50mm. In APSc terms we would be looking at lenses in the range of 24mm for the 35mm equiv fov, 28 to 30mm for the 40 to 45mm equivand 35mm for the 50mm equiv, give or take the odd mm. I personally love 28 or 30mm lenses on my APSc cameras as I find them easier to compose than the slightly longer or wider lenses. There are 2 problems though for lenses on dslrs of below 35mm. First is iq. It is difficult and expensive to make high quality lenses to fit any wider lens because of the lens mount flange distance hence there is limited choice available, which is the second problem! Also I usually crop my APSc images to a 4/3 ratio. The best advice I can give is to try out the 35mm f2. 4 as it is cheap but very good, a respected 24mm like an old Sigma Superwide again reasonably priced and something like M 28mm f3.5, probably the best value lens in that focal length which is easy to come by with decent iq. These options can be upgraded later when you have discovered the FL you like best Yes, now I have considered the option of small APS-C camera like the GR as well, as used unit may not cost a lot more than expensive wide lens, might make more sense to have a dedicated camera for anything below 35. I like the size of m4/3 and no complaints about it, just that there isn't a lot of progress in the system and many compromises, including lens. ---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:10 AM ---------- Originally posted by kernos Its also been said that HC-B was the only one who could do street photography with a 50mm on film (now add Vivian). At the same time, I wondered how folks can use a Ricoh GR 28mm without getting punched out. It depends a lot on your comfort level as to how close you feel safe and how much context you want in a photo. I did find out something interesting about one photographer using a GR. Many of his subjects were people who appeared like they would kill you if you looked the wrong way. They were really close and were mid level. I finally figured out the dude set the GR to catch in focus. All in all I was glad to have some distance on this photo. FA43 Henri Cartier Bresson and Vivian have their own way to taking street photography, I like looking at their pictures, but I don't take like the way they do, and I think anyone can find their own way of taking photograph, though having an example to follow is an easier route to go. 28mm is fine, and I like wider picture to capture the atmosphere anyway. ---------- Post added 14-03-20 at 02:13 AM ---------- Originally posted by richard0170 Vivian Maier used a Rolleifex with a 75 or 80mm (not sure which), on 6x6 cm film. A bit like a 40 or 45mm on a FF camera. But again a bit meaningless because the format is of a different ratio?. Some of my favourite pictures are those Blue Note jazz record covers taken by Francis Wolff, he uses a 3.8 75mm Rolleiflex I think. Vivian uses both 80 and 75, but I would like to think that 75mm would capture more action.