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03-26-2020, 05:14 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
And weight difference due to no stab in the Pentax.
That 14g is almost assuredly the mount, nothing more. To use this to conclude that they are different lenses is, shall we say, a bit easy...

03-26-2020, 06:40 AM   #32
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Yeah, 14g wouldn't allow for much of anything to be done inside the lens.
03-26-2020, 06:50 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Lens rentals will definitely refute that. Higher cost reflects more expensive components that may be more difficult to assemble, but the dynamics of lens production doesn't change much. I believe lens rentals reported getting $15,000 telephotos that were defective right out of the box. If you buy a lot of lenses, you know these things.
For some time now, whenever I buy a lens - or anything else of any complexity, for that matter - I set my expectation that there's a 50/50 chance something won't be right with it. That's probably somewhat pessimistic, since more than half the new-in-box lenses I've bought were fine... but a good number weren't, especially once I'd gained more experience and knew what to look for. The thing is, a lot of folks - beginners, less-experienced amateurs etc. - just assume that any lens they buy is performing as it should, so if it gives poor results in one or more aspects, they simply believe it's not a very good lens by design.
03-26-2020, 08:22 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
For some time now, whenever I buy a lens - or anything else of any complexity, for that matter - I set my expectation that there's a 50/50 chance something won't be right with it. That's probably somewhat pessimistic, since more than half the new-in-box lenses I've bought were fine... but a good number weren't, especially once I'd gained more experience and knew what to look for. The thing is, a lot of folks - beginners, less-experienced amateurs etc. - just assume that any lens they buy is performing as it should, so if it gives poor results in one or more aspects, they simply believe it's not a very good lens by design.
There is one rule for success in the modern world.

Buy from venders with a 7 day, no questions asked return policy. ( Consider the possibly higher cost from venders who offer this a sort of buyers insurance policy.)
Test every lens, camera body etc. throughly as soon as you accept delivery.
If it's not up to spec. or for any reason isn't what you thought it should be, return it immediately.

Over the last 10 years, I've returned one camera body and 2 lenses. Don't assume you're going to have better luck than I have.

03-26-2020, 11:50 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
Ok, I have not watched the video -yet. I also own a copy of the new Pentax 70-210 and like bdery, so far the only negative I've observed is the bokeh, otherwise it's produced great results so far. However, whatever conclusions one might gain from the comparison above, what's the point? We don't have an option to use the Tamron on our K-mount, and whether or not there may have been QC problems with the test Pentax lens aside. I'm just not sure I need to be concerned about the performance of a lens I can't use.

Ok, ok, I can see this from a curiosity standpoint, not much else.
May be better off to buy Nikon D-850 with Tamron 70-210 for similar budget to K-1II with that new lens, not to mention other lens combinations if you want best quality & value..
03-26-2020, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxBro Quote
May be better off to buy Nikon D-850 with Tamron 70-210 for similar budget to K-1II with that new lens, not to mention other lens combinations if you want best quality & value..
There are situations, like images with Pixel shift where a K-1 outperforms a D850 and many others where they are virtually indistinguishable. There's absolutely no reason for a Pentax user to adopt such a radical course of action.

Given that it hasn't been established that the rank ordering of these lenses is not a statistical anomaly based on too small a sample size, you can't even do a standard deviation based on sample of 2, even the science doesn't support it,
03-26-2020, 12:10 PM - 3 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxBro Quote
May be better off to buy Nikon D-850 with Tamron 70-210 for similar budget to K-1II with that new lens, not to mention other lens combinations if you want best quality & value..
If, indeed, one can actually get a D850 + Tamron 70-210/4 combo for about the same price as a K-1ii + D FA 70-210/4 and one only needs a FF body and that lens. However...B&H says $3595.95 vs. $2775.95 -- advantage Pentax.


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03-26-2020, 12:48 PM   #38
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Being quite disappointed with the first reviews, even ephotozine seems to back up cameravilles' testing according to me, i went looking for some other reviews and found a favorable one : [Test] Pentax D*FA 70-210*mm f/4 HD ED SDM WR

So hopefully this is copy variation after all.

03-26-2020, 01:05 PM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wildbunch Quote
even ephotozine seems to back up cameravilles' testing according to me
Are you sure? I quote from the ephotozine review:

QuoteQuote:
First the resolution figures, and at 70mm central sharpness is very good from f/4 all the way through to f/22, only becoming really affected by diffraction at f/32 which is just fair. The edges are very good from f/4 to f/16, good at f/22 and fair at f/32.

At 100mm, sharpness centrally is very good from f/4 to f/22 and good at f/32. The edges are very good from f/4 to f/16, good at f/22 and fair at f/32.

135mm sees the sharpness centrally as very good from f/4 to f/16, good at f/22 and fair at f/32. The edges are good at f/4 and f/5.6, very good at f/8 and f/11, good at f/16 and f/22 and fair at f/32.

At 210mm, central sharpness is good at f/4, very good from f/8 to f/16, good at f/22 and fair at f/32. The edges are fair at f/4, good at f/5.6 and f/8, very good at f/11, good at f/16 and fair at f/22 and f/32.


Performance is actually very similar to the f/2.8 version, perhaps just a whisker below in terms of sharpness, but still notable for its evenness from centre to edge and its character. The resolution isn't the highest ever recorded, but it is very good and it retains the indefinable quality that Pentax lenses show in general. That is where the balance of lens properties lies and is part of the lens maker's art, going beyond having just the ability to separate black and white lines on a photographic chart. Very few of us spend our lives shooting test charts.
It's worth noting that they gave it four-and-a-half stars out of five, and part of their verdict reads as follows:

QuoteQuote:
The f/2.8 lens is actually one of Pentax's star range of superior optics, but in fact, this f/4 version is not very far behind. The figures for resolution are very slightly lower, but the difference is not a deal-breaker by any means. It is even possible to make satisfactory images at f/32 where, although diffraction will certainly take the edge off the fine detail, if depth of field is the main requirement then it is a good thing that the smallest aperture is available.

Of course, what we can't measure is that indefinable “something” that makes an image glow and this lens does have some of that quality. It can't be given a quantity, but I can say that the Pentax-D FA 70-210mm f/4 ED SDM WR lens is now on my own shopping list and it comes Highly Recommended.
I'm not sure you could expect a significantly better rating and verdict for this type and class of lens...
03-26-2020, 01:09 PM   #40
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It is interesting that Ephotozine measures the sharpness of the Tamron 70-210/4 on the 36MP Nikon D810 as being higher than the new Pentax 70-210/4 and the DFA* 70-200/2.8, both of which were attached to a K-1 (36MP).

Both Pentax models also had a greater amount of CA.
03-26-2020, 01:13 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wildbunch Quote
even ephotozine seems to back up cameravilles' testing according to me
You might want to revisit the ephotozine review...

In comparison to the D FA* 70-200/2.8 and comments in general:
QuoteQuote:
The f/2.8 lens is actually one of Pentax's star range of superior optics, but in fact, this f/4 version is not very far behind. The figures for resolution are very slightly lower, but the difference is not a deal-breaker by any means...

...Of course, what we can't measure is that indefinable “something” that makes an image glow and this lens does have some of that quality. It can't be given a quantity, but I can say that the Pentax-D FA 70-210mm f/4 ED SDM WR lens is now on my own shopping list and it comes Highly Recommended.
Pros:
QuoteQuote:
Very good and even sharpness generally
Low CA
Modest vignetting
Low distortion
Reliable AF
Weather resistance
Smooth bokeh
Half the weight of the f/2.8 lens
Excellent flare control
Well priced
Cons:
QuoteQuote:
f/4 aperture may not suit all
Edge sharpness drops off at longer focal lengths
Rated: 4.5 stars out of 5


Steve
03-26-2020, 01:24 PM - 1 Like   #42
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Did no-one else notice that he had more keepers on the AF test with the Pentax, compared with the Nikon setup?

I’ve so far noticed no significant problems with softness at the long end or CA, but I’ve only had mine out a couple of times since it arrived, and it clearly depends on the subjects you shoot.
03-26-2020, 01:26 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
It is interesting that Ephotozine measures the sharpness of the Tamron 70-210/4 on the 36MP Nikon D810 as being higher than the new Pentax 70-210/4 and the DFA* 70-200/2.8, both of which were attached to a K-1 (36MP).

Both Pentax models also had a greater amount of CA.
Comparing the two reviews for the 70-210/4 lenses, they appear to be from lenses with completely different characteristics. While the Pentax results are hardly bad, the Tamron version appears to be sterling across the board.


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03-26-2020, 01:31 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
It is interesting that Ephotozine measures the sharpness of the Tamron 70-210/4 on the 36MP Nikon D810 as being higher than the new Pentax 70-210/4 and the DFA* 70-200/2.8, both of which were attached to a K-1 (36MP).

Both Pentax models also had a greater amount of CA.
Exactly, especially at 210mm the difference is high. And this is visible in the sample shots as well, the picture (@210mm F4) of the lock on the fence is very soft.
03-26-2020, 01:50 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Comparing the two reviews for the 70-210/4 lenses, they appear to be from lenses with completely different characteristics. While the Pentax results are hardly bad, the Tamron version appears to be sterling across the board.


Steve
So... did Tamron provide reviewers with copies that they inspected to ensure maximum performance, while the Pentax is a purchased or borrowed retail copy?

I did a quick look through the Ephotozine site and didn't find an explanation of their testing methodology. How are tested lenses focused? Less-than-expected sharpness plus greater-than-expected CA usually leads me to suspect a very slightly misaligned element, or subtle focusing error.

@Bdery and @SandyHancock have made positive comments about the 70-210/4, so I'm inclined to believe the lens is capable of being excellent.
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