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03-25-2020, 07:42 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I seem to remember him being pretty negative in comments about the Pentax 150-450 but his tests showed it to be very good indeed except that he thought it should exhibit less focus breathing. In every other way it bested the lens it was compared to, I think a 100-400mm Sony that had flare and fringing issues well in excess of what the Pentax produced. It was almost night and day, but you know, that breathing...
I haven't seen a lot of his videos but he does seem to have a thing for focus breathing, no? It's almost like it's the most important aspect of a lens for him and he's so proud that he reports on this while all other reviewers don't...

I find the actual experience from users like Sandy here who hinted he'd sell his DFA* 70-200 f/2.8 before the 70-210 f4, are worth more than 1,000 internet reviewers... but on top of that of course you have to take sample variation into consideration. I would expect the DFA 70-210 to have more variation than the DFA* 70-210 because a star lens should have better QA and tighter specification of components.

03-25-2020, 07:43 AM   #17
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I don't like how it's another test where the reviewer gets the lens from retail and it turns out pretty bad copy. First lousy DA* 11-18/2.8 on DPR TV, now this...
03-25-2020, 08:13 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I haven't seen a lot of his videos but he does seem to have a thing for focus breathing, no? It's almost like it's the most important aspect of a lens for him and he's so proud that he reports on this while all other reviewers don't...

I find the actual experience from users like Sandy here who hinted he'd sell his DFA* 70-200 f/2.8 before the 70-210 f4, are worth more than 1,000 internet reviewers... but on top of that of course you have to take sample variation into consideration. I would expect the DFA 70-210 to have more variation than the DFA* 70-210 because a star lens should have better QA and tighter specification of components.
Lens rentals will definitely refute that. Higher cost reflects more expensive components that may be more difficult to assemble, but the dynamics of lens production doesn't change much. I believe lens rentals reported getting $15,000 telephotos that were defective right out of the box. If you buy a lot of lenses, you know these things.
03-25-2020, 09:00 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Lens rentals will definitely refute that. Higher cost reflects more expensive components that may be more difficult to assemble, but the dynamics of lens production doesn't change much. I believe lens rentals reported getting $15,000 telephotos that were defective right out of the box. If you buy a lot of lenses, you know these things.
You're bursting my naivete bubble

Like I said I (with no experience in such things) *expected* a DFA* to have tighter tolerances and better QA, but I guess reality is different and they can be as unreliable as any lens... the experience of some people I've heard about that had expensive lenses basically fall apart in their hands seems to corroborate that.

That's it, NOW I have an excuse for not having star lenses

03-25-2020, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #20
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I do find it interesting that the lens reviewers seem to end up with bad copies... maybe they look out for them? Maybe the freebies they get to test were lenses someone else already returned?

Let me put my tinfoil hat on...
03-25-2020, 09:07 AM   #21
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I happened across the review last night (or earlier this morning) as it was just posted and I was going to bed. Most of the comments beg the question about copy variation, QC standards, testing approaches - what ever, but Pentax, and all the other camera/lens manufacturers aren't providing any additional information.

Cameraville appears to be one of the few that actually buy$ their own len$e$, as opposed to getting loaners. Lens Rentals also buys theirs, but to rent out, so they do have (the need for) multiple copies that enable them to actually look at sample variations across the various brands. It would be nice if Cameraville (or anyone else, who) could score a couple of additional loaners from B&H, Adorama, Amazon, Pentax - whomever, in order to take a look at copy variation. That said, Lens Rentals is the only one (out side of the manufacturers themselves) who has the capital ($100K+), need, and interest to have (access to) the testing instrumentation (along with the testing expertise on the instrumentation) to actually quantify the copy variation.

One would hope that Pentax is occasionally looking here and over at Cameraville (appears to be pretty much the only other site) that does any reasonable level of reviews and comparisons of Pentax products.

So, does Tamron cherry pick, luck of the draw, sample/copy variation, level of Pentax QC inspection (rejection rate) and their QC standards/acceptable sample variation standards? I just saw that one comment as interesting speculation, one poster's opinion. Within QC standards? Acceptable image quality? With in copy variation standards? I don't know -

I would think that if this lens is sufficiently important enough to Ricoh and the Pentax brand/reputation, that some level of corporate interest would/might be expended on the topic.

03-25-2020, 11:01 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I take the review statements from the Cameraville guy with large grains of salt.
This ^ ^ ^

Where substance counts, he comes up on the low end of the spectrum.

Edit: To elaborate, he tends to be a bit sloppy and does not share his setup details. For example, I suspect his soft results were the result of missed focus.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 03-25-2020 at 11:33 AM.
03-25-2020, 11:11 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This ^ ^ ^

Where substance counts, he comes up on the low end of the spectrum.


Steve
Where the ergonomics and actual handling characteristics of the lens come up he's on the high end though. He may not have the testing ability of lens rentals, but I'm guessing he has a much higher appreciation of over all functionality, and when he doesn't know a system well, he invites someone else who does. I'm always impressed by his ability to come up with a Pentax pro when he needs one.
03-25-2020, 02:23 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Copy variation.
Exactly.
And weight difference due to no stab in the Pentax.
+ too bad no flare comparison test.
03-25-2020, 02:43 PM - 1 Like   #25
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I agree with Sandy, this is almost undoubtedly copy variation - especially since the difference is so marked. I've had three copies of a different model lens (ironically, Tamron) that performed quite differently. So comparing one sample of the Pentax variant 70-210 against one sample of the Tamron, through one reviewer, on different platforms, doesn't provide us with anything like enough concrete results and data to draw conclusions.

As for the comment suggesting that Tamron did all the glass manufacturing themselves, keeping the best for their build and providing less than perfect glass for the Pentax build, I find that ludicrous at a "tin hat" and "flat earth" level. If Ricoh found out that was truly the case, it would be the last profitable business venture Tamron would ever clinch with them. Tamron is smart enough to know that, and there's no way it would risk alienating such a significant client. Honestly, it beggars belief that someone came up with such nonsense...
03-25-2020, 03:06 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
it beggars belief that someone came up with such nonsense...
He has done it before!
03-25-2020, 03:23 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
He has done it before!
The guy that commented so ludicrously is just an armchair conspiracy theorist. Like I said, tin hat and flat earth brigade.

What's terribly sad is that CameraVille guy agreed with him so readily, based on a one sample vs one sample comparison. Then again, he's not the hottest when it comes to test conditions anyway, and his videos - if you can get through them in their entirity - are nothing but the (usually) positive opinions of a fan, rather than a technically competent reviewer. Some people like him because he's generally positive about Pentax, and that can be appealing, I suppose, when so many review sites and vloggers are biased against the brand. But, really, this is pretty telling...
03-25-2020, 03:34 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
that Cameraville guy
Its only my opinion,but,with the countless reviews Ive watched and possibly 100+ different reviewers,I would rate him at the low end.Specifically in bottom 5 or so.

In his favour, he does get some stuff correct and his presentation has improved over time.

His claims in the comments that"Pentax Watches him" may be correct but he is saying they should supply him with another copy to test.That's a great joke when $onySouthdrop cant even get a K-1 to test from Ricoh and hes been waiting 4 years!
03-25-2020, 03:55 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Its only my opinion,but,with the countless reviews Ive watched and possibly 100+ different reviewers,I would rate him at the low end.Specifically in bottom 5 or so.

In his favour, he does get some stuff correct and his presentation has improved over time.

His claims in the comments that"Pentax Watches him" may be correct but he is saying they should supply him with another copy to test.That's a great joke when $onySouthdrop cant even get a K-1 to test from Ricoh and hes been waiting 4 years!
I've long since given up on vloggers and even many websites with regard to impartiality, and whilst CameraVille guy gets one point for being positive about our chosen brand, he scores low on impartiality like everyone else (also, sadly, on ability). Shooting both Pentax and Sony, I'm used to silly biases against both from reviewers and forums alike. Many (most?) folks tend to favour reviewers that are biased towards their own brand and equipment choices. It's a fool's paradise, of course, but if they enjoy that, good luck to them. Most reviewers occasionally have something interesting or useful to say if it's taken in combination with much wider input, but every one of them comes out with some absolute howlers. When all's said and done, there's really only one reviewer we can each rely on completely, and that's ourselves...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-25-2020 at 04:24 PM.
03-25-2020, 04:22 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I find that ludicrous at a "tin hat" and "flat earth" level.
There seems to be a lot of that going around. I'm safe though...sheltering in place...


Steve
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