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04-20-2020, 12:43 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Why are Used Wide Angle Lenses so Expensive?
Ultra Wides (24mm and wider for FF) have always been expensive and continue to be so because they continue to be a niche market. Sales new tend to be low and both scarcity and seller investment tends to keep used prices high as well.


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04-20-2020, 12:46 PM   #17
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The Samyang 14mm is cheap. You just need to buy a seller who takes returns. The DA12-24 works very well in the 17-24mm range. The Irix 15mm is my best ultrawide, however.
04-20-2020, 12:49 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Pentax have no primes in production wider than the FA 31mm Limited!

This means that the only option for prime shooters is to buy second hand. Add to that:
1. most mirrorless cameras can adapt vintage Pentax glass and that those lenses are well regarded
2. Not that many uwa's were ever made.

This all conspires to make K mount wide angle lenses extremely expensive for what they are. I was considering buying an old used FA 20mm but when I realised I'd be paying what others pay for new glass I couldn't quite stomach it.
This is it in a nutshell.
To be fair I don't know how many UWA go to other brands but I have certainly seen a few reviewed on Sony etc.
Personally I did not have much luck with QC problems on a Samyang 14mm too (and I live in NZ so can't afford to keep trying due to shipping). Now thinking about other brands.
04-20-2020, 01:11 PM - 1 Like   #19
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They are scary prices whatever brand you aim at in vintage glass. For really frightening prices on wides ( never mind ultra wides ) look at what Nikon glass goes for.Minolta glass goes bonkers on price once you start going under 50mm. Horrid plastic Canon FDs likewise.

If you can accept third party glass some of the Tamrons come up cheap enough and seem deceneg enough. I have a Tamron 24mm Adaptall 1. I havent film tested it yet bit it seems well made and the view, at least through e VF is pleasing enough. My only gripe with it is it seems to lack any snap to focus.

04-20-2020, 01:58 PM   #20
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I have a Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5. It works great on crop frame. I want a Samyang 14mm, but thanks to the Sigma I do not need it.
04-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #21
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Ultra-wide angle lenses have long had a tendency to be expensive. Especially the fast constant-aperture zoom lenses. For my 35mm film use many years ago, I purchased a Tokina 20-35mm f/3.5-4.5 having a 77mm filter size and metal construction I found to be quite sharp and delivered fine results. The Tokina 19-35mm f/3.5-4.5 already mentioned also enjoyed good test reviews, and its plastic construction is pretty good.

---------- Post added 04-20-20 at 03:58 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have the Rokinon 14 2.8, a very good lens if you get a good copy. I have my FAJ 18-35. My DA 10-17 covers the FF circle at 17mm and 16mm, My Sigma 8-16 covers the FF circle at 16, and 15mm.

I honestly don't spend a lot of time fretting about lack of lenses for UWA. I did for a while because in theory the situation sounds terrible. I bought the Rokinon 14 and discovered I just don't have a lot of call to use it. For just walking around my FAJ 18-35 is light weight and very portable and just the kind of lens you want when you know it won't be used often but you want something for just in case. And it cost me $100, new in box old stock.

FAJ 18-35 at 18mm, you could do a lot worse.
That FA-J lens is FF from the 35mm film days and the image quality looks good to me- and not adding a lot of weight.

---------- Post added 04-20-20 at 04:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
The OP is asking specifically about FF lenses.



Wide angle apsc lenses usually perform even worse than telephoto ones and with wide angles you are less likely to be going for subject isolation. Two aspects that make using apsc wides on ff a bad idea. I've tried to use the da 12-24mm but the the limitations coming at you from all directions make it not worth the hassle. Vignetting varies dramatically by aperture and of course zoom, edges are never good etc. Keeping all those limitations in mind when shooting becomes very cumbersome and prone to mistakes.
I would expect vignetting with this lens on FF, maybe affecting the edge performance. On APS-C, testing established uncommonly good edge performance, and fine results through the aperture range.

The DFA 15-30mm f/2.8 is an outstanding ultra-wide zoom lens, but it is a heavy beast, and very expensive. I don't see why Pentax could not again make a variable-aperture UW FF zoom lens as it did with that FA-J model, and with WR to boot, at a reasonable price.

If I get a FF DSLR body, I will simply put my Tokina UW zoom back in service for digital use, and that will be good enough. As it is, I am very satisfied with my high-performing Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5 on APS-C for my UW needs.

Last edited by mikesbike; 04-20-2020 at 04:43 PM.
04-20-2020, 04:05 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Love it. I bought that lens a couple of years ago....it is a beast.
A couple with this lens on the K1



04-20-2020, 06:25 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
That FA-J lens is FF from the 35mm film days and the image quality looks good to me- and not adding a lot of weight.
It doesn't really have the sharpness for a 24 MP APS_c sensor, but on a K-1 it's a great addition if you can't find anything else. Still a bit soft, but that disappears right away when you reduce the size of your image.

04-20-2020, 06:25 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Ultra wide lenses such as 15mm and 20mm were expensive back when they were sold new. That means that relatively few were sold and produced, making them rare.
I bought a Pentax M-20mm F4 lens new back in the early 1980's. I was in college and it about broke the bank to get it. I don't recall the price but I do recall a solid month of living on the generic label Top Ramen, peanut butter and hot dogs. And not all at once. Maybe. I'm not admitting to anything regarding my early 1980's cuisine choices. Sacrifices had to be made. Priorities, ha!
04-20-2020, 10:21 PM - 5 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I have been looking for a full-frame prime or zoom lens in the 15-20mm area. I once had a K-series 20 mm F4 : it was stolen. Now I find that even old manual lenses like that are offered for several 100s, and more modern used FAs for example are in the 400-500 range. In contrast, I got a mint Pentax-FA 100-300mm F4.7-5.8 recently for only 29, and that focal lenght is probably about the same "distance" away from standard, in the opposite direction.

Is it just rarity on the used market? Is it that most users will add a telephoto as the next after the kit lens, but far fewer go on to add a wide angle, let alone an ultra-wide?
They are hard to make for the FOV, while retaining optical quality

That said, the Samyang 14/2.8 is already very good for the price and better for off center sharpness than old UWA, which are most likely also less wide.








There really is very little need to lament any lack of Pentax UWA as Samyang 14, Laowa 12, Irix 15, DFA15-30 are all available out there depending on one's budget
04-21-2020, 03:33 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by david94903 Quote
I bought a Pentax M-20mm F4 lens new back in the early 1980's. I was in college and it about broke the bank to get it. I don't recall the price but I do recall a solid month of living on the generic label Top Ramen, peanut butter and hot dogs. And not all at once. Maybe. I'm not admitting to anything regarding my early 1980's cuisine choices. Sacrifices had to be made. Priorities, ha!
I also bought one of those in the late eighties. It was sitting in the used cupboard of one of the large camera shops in town. I was a postgrad student with a low paying job. The price was sort of within reach but I was a little short. As luck would have it, I had an unopened box of 16x12 ilford Multigrade that a friend took off my hands. That brought me near the mark but I was not quite there yet. I scoured every pile of loose change in the house until I finally had the asking price. The guy at the shop didn't blink an eye when I counted out a pile of notes and coins. He was probably glad to make the sale. The lens had been sitting in the shop for a while.

Three decades later, I still have it. It makes a great lens for street photography on crop frame. Zone focus, dial in sunny f/11 exposure and shoot. When mounted on my Samsung NX100 with an adapter, it is a nice compact piece of kit that I can take with me everywhere. It's my own take on a "low budget" Ricoh GR III. When I see what some sellers want for an SMC Pentax M 20mm f/4 these days, the low budget idea seems far-fetched. I kinda wonder if I should still carry it around like that. it is getting far too valuable but I like using it too much, hehehe.

I should be able to use the Samsung 20-50mm kit lens for the same application, but it's just not the same. It has focus by wire, which makes manual zone focusing a real challenge. The focus dial has no resistance to speak of, so whatever you set is easily unset. One could stick to auto focus, but that is too slow on the street. And then there is the magical Pentax colors that the Samsung just doesn't seem to have. It is sharp enough at f/11 but there is no SMC pixie dust.
04-21-2020, 03:37 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
The DFA 15-30mm f/2.8 is an outstanding ultra-wide zoom lens, but it is a heavy beast, and very expensive. I don't see why Pentax could not again make a variable-aperture UW FF zoom lens as it did with that FA-J model, and with WR to boot, at a reasonable price.
My educated guess: Because they will not sell the DFA 15-30 in the quantities they need to?
To talk seriously: I think the 15-30 Tamron rebrandet was the fastest available and most cost effective solution for Ricoh. They know the FF range is lacking WW, in the roadmap there are allready two primes a WW and an UWW. But those won't be pricey as well I guess. Pentax is becoming a luxury brand concerning the prices.

Last edited by Papa_Joe; 04-22-2020 at 12:23 AM.
04-21-2020, 05:08 AM   #28
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FF ultra wides are not cheap.


I have the Sigma EX15-30, there is also the Sigmas 20-40 and the 15 fisheye (available new?).
Samyang also has the 8mm fisheye i think in addition to the 14mm.

I guess many less known cheaper ones are available from the film era as well.


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04-21-2020, 07:32 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bassek Quote
FF ultra wides are not cheap.


I have the Sigma EX15-30, there is also the Sigmas 20-40 and the 15 fisheye (available new?).
Samyang also has the 8mm fisheye i think in addition to the 14mm.

I guess many less known cheaper ones are available from the film era as well.


Seb
Generally, people having trouble in this area are pretty picky about what they want. And usually the complaint is that there isn't a modern DA* in the 10-24 range.

When I was researching the Rokinon/Samyang 14 2.8, one of the astrophotography sites rated it the best astrophotography lens available, on any brand or mount. That was enough to sell me. Buy the time you've bought two or three to get good copy if you need to it will be expensive, but I got lucky. My first purchase is clearly an excellent copy.
04-21-2020, 09:20 AM   #30
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The Sy 14 is a pretty cool lens in certain respects but mine is very rarely used as well. I actually took my first shot with it in 2020 last night, an hour-long exposure on black & white film from my roof. It's fun once in a while but either my Tamron 17 or Pentax M 20 get more use by far.
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