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05-07-2020, 01:19 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
That lens is fine.
Yep, it's a Limited, it's beautiful.

05-07-2020, 05:30 AM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
My brain hurts.
Every time I think I need a new lens I get a head ache. For some reason, it's a mind numbing experience. Even though as mind numbing experiences go, it's one that's less likely to make any real difference to your life.
05-07-2020, 06:15 AM - 2 Likes   #48
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After eliminating the Sigma it comes down to the 20-40 vs 16-85.
The 20-40 gives me no capability beyond convenience that I don't have. at 20 it's only 1/3 stop faster than my 21 Ltd and at 40 it's a full stop slower than my 40 Ltd, and in the mid range about 2 stops slower than my 31.
OTH
The 16-85 gives some advantage over my Sigma 18-250. It's wider by more than 10%, it's lighter, it's WR. Besides that, though I'm happy with the sharpness of the 18-250 the 16-85 is apparently about as sharp for a normal zoom as you can expect; at least in a price range mere mortals can afford.

Hm. I think I just talked myself into a 16-85.
05-07-2020, 06:33 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
After eliminating the Sigma it comes down to the 20-40 vs 16-85.
The 20-40 gives me no capability beyond convenience that I don't have. at 20 it's only 1/3 stop faster than my 21 Ltd and at 40 it's a full stop slower than my 40 Ltd, and in the mid range about 2 stops slower than my 31.
OTH
The 16-85 gives some advantage over my Sigma 18-250. It's wider by more than 10%, it's lighter, it's WR. Besides that, though I'm happy with the sharpness of the 18-250 the 16-85 is apparently about as sharp for a normal zoom as you can expect; at least in a price range mere mortals can afford.

Hm. I think I just talked myself into a 16-85.
so no coin flip needed then

05-07-2020, 06:39 AM   #50
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I was a bit concerned that my 16-85 was not focusing correctly even with narrow aperture and I was about to head off on an overseas holiday, so I picked up a Sigma EX DC 17-50mm. With a disciplined weekend testing the 16-85 and some encouragement from Tim B, I decided to take it for 2 weeks in Vietnam, accompanied by the PLM for telephoto and three primes to cover for it (Limited 15mm, 21mm and 70mm). The 16-85 went really well and I used it most of the time. Except for a few occasions where I knew I needed at least 200mm, I pushed the capabilities of the 16-85, cropping the result rather than changing lenses.

The biggest disadvantage of the 16-85, I think, is that it's physically really long at 85mm. The aperture is not really an issue often with a K-70, I can take the ISO to 3200 happily. So for discrete walkaround, I swapped to the 21mm. The other primes did not come out of the bag.

So in summary, the 16-85 performs really well on the K-70, such that I am not (yet!) tempted by the 20-40mm. Using 85mm and cropping gives acceptable results in place of a genuine telephoto, and I do not think the 20-40 would be able to do that.

Now I will sell my 18-135mm (never used it much, and did not think it would be good enough for the trip) and decide whether to sell the Sigma 17-50.
05-07-2020, 06:47 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
so no coin flip needed then
Neither coin flip nor rental.
The voices in my head seem to have come to a meeting of the minds.
05-07-2020, 06:53 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
After eliminating the Sigma it comes down to the 20-40 vs 16-85.
The 20-40 gives me no capability beyond convenience that I don't have. at 20 it's only 1/3 stop faster than my 21 Ltd and at 40 it's a full stop slower than my 40 Ltd, and in the mid range about 2 stops slower than my 31.
OTH
The 16-85 gives some advantage over my Sigma 18-250. It's wider by more than 10%, it's lighter, it's WR. Besides that, though I'm happy with the sharpness of the 18-250 the 16-85 is apparently about as sharp for a normal zoom as you can expect; at least in a price range mere mortals can afford.

Hm. I think I just talked myself into a 16-85.
Very few people have expressed dissatisfaction with that lens bought new. It's much less affected by the differences in personal taste. Although, you still have to get a good copy.

I seriously doubt anyone with a stellar copy of these lenses ever wants to sell them. I'm tempted to ignore second hand copies, if that guy didn't think enough of the lens to keep it, why would I? The exception being older glass, that isn't a big gamble in terms of money spent.

I sometimes wonder how much dissatisfaction with the 18-135 is the same low end copies being passed around. I've had mine since 2011 and you won't ever see it coming up for sale. Although if I were buying today, I'd probably go for the 16-85, especially with the 55-300 PLM being such an excellent lens, if I want to collect the whole set.

05-07-2020, 06:56 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gary H Perth Quote
I was a bit concerned that my 16-85 was not focusing correctly even with narrow aperture and I was about to head off on an overseas holiday, so I picked up a Sigma EX DC 17-50mm. With a disciplined weekend testing the 16-85 and some encouragement from Tim B, I decided to take it for 2 weeks in Vietnam, accompanied by the PLM for telephoto and three primes to cover for it (Limited 15mm, 21mm and 70mm). The 16-85 went really well and I used it most of the time. Except for a few occasions where I knew I needed at least 200mm, I pushed the capabilities of the 16-85, cropping the result rather than changing lenses.

The biggest disadvantage of the 16-85, I think, is that it's physically really long at 85mm. The aperture is not really an issue often with a K-70, I can take the ISO to 3200 happily. So for discrete walkaround, I swapped to the 21mm. The other primes did not come out of the bag.

So in summary, the 16-85 performs really well on the K-70, such that I am not (yet!) tempted by the 20-40mm. Using 85mm and cropping gives acceptable results in place of a genuine telephoto, and I do not think the 20-40 would be able to do that.

Now I will sell my 18-135mm (never used it much, and did not think it would be good enough for the trip) and decide whether to sell the Sigma 17-50.
Except for the Vietnam part I can envision very similar scenarios for myself.
For discrete "target of opportunity" street shots my 21 is ideal. My K-5 IIs handles high ISO just fine so no issue with the relatively small aperture of the 16-85 isn't a big deal and when it is I have the 31.
05-07-2020, 08:22 AM - 6 Likes   #54
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I just ordered the 16-85.
05-07-2020, 08:23 AM - 3 Likes   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I just ordered the 16-85.
Are you sure that's what you wanted?
05-07-2020, 08:31 AM - 2 Likes   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Are you sure that's what you wanted?
It does seem like rather a rash decision.
05-07-2020, 08:33 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It does seem like rather a rash decision.
Norm, we should cut him some slack. We don't want him to second guess himself, do we now?
05-07-2020, 08:41 AM   #58
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If he doesn’t like it he can always sell it on
05-07-2020, 08:45 AM - 3 Likes   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Are you sure that's what you wanted?
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It does seem like rather a rash decision.
Yeah, I only gave it some casual thought.
Maybe I should have obsessed over it for a while.
05-07-2020, 08:46 AM - 2 Likes   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Norm, we should cut him some slack. We don't want him to second guess himself, do we now?
Cut Parallax some slack? Why would anyone do that? Especially since he now has a more desirable APS-c camera than I do, and didn't clear it with me first. My thought is "stick it to him."
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