[motorhead9999]

So recently, I got my first vintage Leica prime lenses (a 70s/80s 90mm Summicron and 50mm Summilux). Obviously they have a legendary reputation.

I picked up my first SMC K prime lens (the 28mm f3.5) earlier this year and have fallen in love with it, and feel the image quality of it is better than most primes I've seen in that focal length. Ive purchased a few additional ones, but haven't received them yet.

So here's my question: for near equivalent lenses of a similar era (so I'm not comparing the SMC K lenses to modern asph Leica stuff), how do the SMC Pentax lenses compare? For instance, how is an SMC 85mm f1.8 compared to a 90mm f2 Summicron from the same year?

[zapp]

Leica legend is about image drawing and mechanical quality. It is not (only) measured in sharpness. R lenses do well, M lenses have even more history. Leica is mirrorless since 1954 with the M mount. Pentax lenses of that time (80s90s) still feel great today mechanically, optically they are also fun. Compare image drawing capabilities from Pentax forum and 90cron forums. Lenses are different not better or worse.

[hcc]

On famous prime lenses, I can recommend the following reading:

The Best (Autofocus) [Prime] Lenses Money Can Buy
sm-02-05-02 - Luminous Landscape

Across all brands, incl. Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Pentax, Leica, "all things considered, the 77mm may be the best lens". Yes, the Pentax FA77mm Ltd...

Food for thoughts.

[pinholecam]

I have dabbled in a limited few Leica 50mm and imho, its basically an arms race between the German makers and the Japanese.
Nobody is a fool despite what the fans of each side will like to say.
So one brand may win out for a year or a few with a new design and then another brand will come up with something a bit better.

All said, the Pentax lenses are easily better bang for the buck and often going for all round consistency rather than anything else (eg. mechanical build quality, lens physical aesthetics, rendering, etc ).
So generally, any Pentax lens appears to be well sharp, good flare tolerance, decent/good rendering vs any design of its time
The DSLR lenses also have a nearer minimum focus distance.
The RF lenses are smaller though, superbly built and many bladed aperture.

Then throw in the edge issues for RF lenses on digital and the analysis gets confusing again.

Don't forget that Leica means paying much higher prices and often for a slower lens.
Example would be getting a Summicron 50/2 for the price of a A50/1.4 + K28/3.5

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Last edited by pinholecam; 05-09-2020 at 02:14 AM.

[ProfessorBuzz]

On famous prime lenses, I can recommend the following reading:

The Best (Autofocus) [Prime] Lenses Money Can Buy
sm-02-05-02 - Luminous Landscape

Across all brands, incl. Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Pentax, Leica, "all things considered, the 77mm may be the best lens". Yes, the Pentax FA77mm Ltd...

Food for thoughts.

Thanks for bringing this article (now 18 years old!) to our attention.

[noelpolar]

On famous prime lenses, I can recommend the following reading:

The Best (Autofocus) [Prime] Lenses Money Can Buy
sm-02-05-02 - Luminous Landscape

Across all brands, incl. Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Pentax, Leica, "all things considered, the 77mm may be the best lens". Yes, the Pentax FA77mm Ltd...

Food for thoughts.

and.... I preffer my SMC K 85/1.8 to my 77!

[Lowell Goudge]

Years ago a tech in a camera store told me a story (I can’t say whether it was true or not) but he said he had a customer that swore by Leica, co the tech took a couple of Leica lenses and the similar Pentax lenses and did the same shots with both. He Showed the customer The finished prints for both And asked him to pick which ones he preferred better, and the customer picked the Pentax ones

Make of it what you will

[noelpolar]

About the only person I'd listen to about such matters on this forum is Digitalis.... but... he probally owns them all anyhow.... and will most likely use big optical words I wont be able to understand.

Anyway.... one of my very few photography bucketlist things is.... to own/use a Leica rangefinder before I die. Should I wish to die soon.... then buying a $15,000 M10-p and lens or 2 would do it.... as wife would kill me.

[Digitalis]

how do the SMC Pentax lenses compare? For instance, how is an SMC 85mm f1.8 compared to a 90mm f2 Summicron from the same year?

A pre-asph 90mm 'cron Vs the K-85mm f/1.8 - that would be a battle of the titans. I'd think apart form the differences in size and weight optical performance would be remarkably similar, the difference between f/2 and f/1.8 is largely academic. The Pentax lens would have an optical advantage over the Leica lens due to the use of SMC coatings giving it enhanced contrast, and the K 85mm f/1.8 can focus closer which is important for portraiture: Longer lenses are inherently problematic at close focus distances on RF cameras, particularly fast ones. Though having said that: the optical performance of a modern Leica apo-asph 90mm Summicron will comfortably beat the crap out of everything Pentax has made before the year 2010.

the only person I'd listen to about such matters on this forum is Digitalis

I appreciate your confidence but surely, I'm not the only leicaphile here.

the customer picked the Pentax ones

Leicas optical design paradigm relies on simplified optical designs to prevent flare from becoming problematic. Advanced optical coatings allowed lens designers to literally throw that concept out the window and paved the way for zoom lenses and primes with element counts well into the double digits without problems arising from contrast destroying flare.

ts basically an arms race between the German makers and the Japanese.

As I mentioned, improved optical coatings have a lot to do with this. Many manufacturers had something to prove to the world, particularly in post-war Japan when it came to competing with European manufacturers - the Japanese are very good business men and producing products that equal, if not exceed that of their German counterparts was their goal.

The DSLR lenses also have a nearer minimum focus distance.The RF lenses are smaller though, superbly built and many bladed aperture.Then throw in the edge issues for RF lenses on digital and the analysis gets confusing again.

ahh yes the Achilles heel of the RF - closer focusing, an inherent advantage with the SLR is that you can see the focus errors coming. With an RF in the film days you were better off getting a ruler and manually calculating the focus distance*...with 35mm a small error can make a big difference.

Don't forget that Leica means paying much higher prices and often for a slower lens.Example would be getting a Summicron 50/2 for the price of a A50/1.4 + K28/3.5

You can get Zeiss,Voigtlander,Canon,Nikon,Hexanon lenses second hand for modest prices and still get absurdly fast lenses...Voigtlander have the Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Nokton 50mm f/1.1 for modest prices compared to the Leica equivalents.

*With Live view capability on recent Leica M digital rangefinders macro photography is becoming more accessible for RF users, unfortunately the number of macro lenses made for M mount cameras can be counted on one hand.

[cpk]

My experience (this has been posted elsewhere in these forums before):
Comparing Leica to Pentax - CK's Blog

[motorhead9999]

You can get Zeiss,Voigtlander,Canon,Nikon,Hexanon lenses second hand for modest prices and still get absurdly fast lenses...Voigtlander have the Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Nokton 50mm f/1.1 for modest prices compared to the Leica equivalents.

This is true. I'm a big voigtlander fan, and I have the M mount 35mm f1.7 that I use on my sony body. But the purpose of my discussion here is strictly on the Leica branded lenses themselves.

And really, here's what it comes down to: The summilux/summicron combo I got cost me upwards of $1500. The SMC K combo of a 55mm f1.8 and an 85mm f1.8 cost me only around $500. I could add in a 50mm f1.2 to that Pentax grouping and still be south of what I have in Leica glass. Again, I don't have the lenses to compare them yet and I will once I get them, but I am just curious as to how the Pentax holds their own against R mount glass from more experienced Pentaxians. I've seen lovely images from both lenses from both companies, but obviously, if you're not comparing the same scene taken with two different lenses, it's hard to really get a fair comparison.

[johnha]

A couple of years ago I bought a beaten up M4 as a present to myself after a dreadful year. Leica lens prices often make the body sound cheap, you very quickly realise you need to know your Summi-this from your Summi-that.

I bought a Voigtlander 40/1.4* to try to get as close to my FA43** as possible at reasonable cost. It's my only M mount lens and likely to be for a while, I have no complaints. However I think I'd struggle with something like 85mm on a rangefinder, the user experience is somewhat different to an SLR.

Wide-angles seem to work best on rangefinders, I'm looking into a Leica M to M42 adapter so I can use my S-M-C-Tak 20/4.5 - the Rf focussing won't work, but scale focussing shouldn't be a problem.

* I bought the 'MC' multi-coated version, they also sell a single-coated version for those who prefer less contrast in mono images.

** Ideally I'd want a very rare 'independent' lens from another manufacturer - Pentax-L 43mm Limited Special...

---------- Post added 05-10-20 at 06:07 AM ----------

On famous prime lenses, I can recommend the following reading:

The Best (Autofocus) [Prime] Lenses Money Can Buy
sm-02-05-02 - Luminous Landscape

Across all brands, incl. Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Pentax, Leica, "all things considered, the 77mm may be the best lens". Yes, the Pentax FA77mm Ltd...

Food for thoughts.

The British Journal of Photography declared the FA77 as "one of the best compact full frame portrait lenses ever made", even before the K-1 arrived. They very rarely give praise like that.

[SpecialK]

As a spectator, I believe this subjective Q has no objective A.

[Digitalis]

As a spectator, I believe this subjective Q has no objective A.

I could show you test charts with error bars, but as many will say the proof is in the pudding: many find the rendering from Pentax lenses to be superior.

I am just curious as to how the Pentax holds their own against R mount glass from more experienced Pentaxians

I used to own pretty much the whole Leica R lens catalogue of lenses. But several years ago I sold them off to a collector, along with several Leica R camera bodies this was a regrettable move.

I still have the test data from my own optics bench to compare Pentax/Leica R lenses but I don't have anywhere near as many samples from Leica lenses as they are very rare here in Australia.

[lesmore49]

Back in the mid '80's I had a Leica M4 and three Leica lenses for a 3 day trial. The lenses were if I recall a 35mm, 50mm and 90 mm. I had my Pentax ES ll with it's Takumar 50mm F 1.8 and Takumar 135 mm F 3.5.

I was running through a lot of film with the Leica during that trial as I was making a decision about whether or not to get a new Leica rangefinder.

For kicks I thought I would do some comparison testing...my ES ll with the Tak 50 and the Tak 135mm vs the M4 and the Leitz 50 and 90mm.

I know 90 vs 135, etc...but I was using what I had, even if the lens vs lens were not quite right. In this case, focal length was different.

In the 50 vs 50, focal length was comparable.

I took a series of shots, same subject, same lighting, indoor, outdoor, same other things (settings, etc.) I could control. I used the same hand held light meter, my trusty Sekonic L-248, so there would be no difference in light metering.

I enlarged to 8 X 10 and 11 X 14.

I couldn't tell the difference. I showed to a buddy who used a Nikon F. He couldn't tell the difference. My testing was not scientific, etc. But to me it said at those enlargements ...I couldn't tell the difference about what was shot by either camera equipment.

BTW, I had back then and still have an old Leica 11f rangefinder and a 50mm collapsible F 3.5 Leitz 50mm lens and I like Leica equipment.

But I also like a lot of different camera equipment. Back then I did a fair amount of shooting with medium format...my Mamiya TLR and if I was doing enlargements, my Mamiya with it's medium format was the way I went.