[Fenwoodian]

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I currently own no modern auto-focus lenses. All of my lenses are film-era, manual-focus, primes from the last century. While I can afford the latest and greatest auto focus lenses, I still prefer to shoot manual-focus lenses. I'm an old guy who grew up manual focusing. Heck, I used to shoot birds in flight with manual focusing lenses.

I prefer the build, tactile feedback when focusing, the ruggedness, the bokeh, and the overall rendering of older manual-focus prime lenses. Also, it doesn't hurt that many fine old manual focus lenses are inexpensive. I use live-view with a 3X Zacuto viewfinder and actually nail focus with my manual focus lenses more often than I did when I had auto-focus lenses.

I have way too many 2005 - 2012 era digital camera bodies and was thinking of giving some of them with a few of my lesser used manual focus lenses to my grand-kids. They all have smartphones and sometimes use their built-in smartphone cameras.

I'm searching for something to tell them that would motivate them to want to give a real camera with a manual focus lens a serious try. While many real cameras have huge megapixels, the bodies I'm giving them will have only 10 - 14 megapixels (comparable to the resolution of their phones) - so increased resolution from a real camera isn't an incentive. Their smartphones can produce pseudo out of focus blurs, so I don't expect they'd get very excited about using fast manual focus lenses on a real camera to produce nice bokeh. Their smartphones are lighter, always with them, and smartphone photos can be immediately posted to the Internet without wasting time with post processing (these young people don't even have access to a laptop or a desktop computer).

So, why do you think a newer photographer would want to give a real camera with a manual focus lens a try? What short "elevator speech" would you tell a young smartphone generation person that might get them to give a real camera and manual focus lens a try?
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Last edited by Fenwoodian; 05-13-2020 at 09:45 AM.

[kypfer]

Don't do it!
There's shortage enough of the classic equipment for those of us who already appreciate it, without encouraging a whole new generation to start collecting it as well


Alternatively:


Good idea!
Get all the gear currently stashed in box-rooms and attics out in the marketplace, assuming they can still buy batteries for the light meter

[tuco]

Smart phones can also put an animal face/eyes/nose or something on a person. You expect them to give that up for old-school gear? I bet even high end cameras lenses will eventually perform most, if not all, of what is done optically today with software in the lens and camera integration.

[photoptimist]

There are at least three broad categories of rationale for trying manual focus lenses.

1. Control: The biggest difference between phones and "real cameras" is the amount of control that real cameras enable. Dedicated, tactile controls make it much easier to control exposure, focus, and other settings to achieve artistic or practical goals. Often these goals vary from the automagical settings that phones and P&S cameras produce. Sure, anyone can take photographs these days, but to make photographs benefits from a higher level of control on the device.

2. Self-Image: Getting a "real camera" is a way to send a message to the world that one self-identifies as a photographer. Part of that self-identity might include using vintage equipment (manual lenses, older digital cameras, film, etc.). A "real photographer" doesn't use autofocus, autoexposure, etc.!

3. Mastery: Some people want a hobby (or profession) that involves some sort of challenge. They pick something because it is hard to do well as a way of engaging the mind, proving self-worth, and creating higher self-satisfaction. Binge watching is easy. Spray-and-pray auto-cameras are easy. Catching the decisive moment by anticipating the subject's behavior, pre-focusing a manual lens to the subject's destination, and clicking at the right instant brings a flood of endorphins for those seeking mastery.

P.S. Which "elevator speech" you use depends on a reading of the individual's nature and motivations.

[Sir Nameless]

Caveat: I don't know you or your family.

If it were me, before I gave them anything, I'd spend time with them in the field with my camera. Show them what you do. Show them the results. Demonstrate to them how much you enjoy the process. Show them why it's worth doing things the hard way. Let them try yours.

Make attaining one of your cameras a reward to be earned, not just another easy-to-obtain thing that will end up in a drawer.

Not only might you ignite a life-long love of the art, but also give them life-long memories of your time together.

p.s. As an aside, I don't think it's necessarily generational. Analog things like film and records and first-gen Atari video games are being revived by my generation (X) and younger.

p.p.s. For what it's worth, I'm moving in the same direction as you. I've added 2 older lenses to my toolbox and am considering which (maybe all) of my modern glass to sell.

[Kobayashi.K]

Why would you want to convince someone to use manual focus lenses. The fact that you like that personally is not a good reason. If someone is interested in photography and you want to help them, take a neutral position and present them with the possible alternatives, mentioning the pro's and con's, and let them judge for themselves.

Edit - To be clear: I shoot both film and digital and always use manual lenses on all cameras.

[MossyRocks]

I honestly don't think that getting the vast majority of phone camera users to try as I call it a "big boy" camera will work. Most people want something simple that does a good enough job and cellphone cameras are just that for most people. With them now having what would correctly be termed ultrawide, wide, and normal (not wide, normal and telephoto as they like to call them) lenses/sensors it gives enough flexibility for most situations and for the most part the general population will never be able to out shoot their cellphone. A cell camera is just the modern point and shoot for digital and in good enough for most. For those who have an interest in photography they will outgrow the cellphone and will move on or view it is a constrained challenge art form by using a cellphone. Add in that a lot of people who bought DSLRs in the past found that they didn't take better pictures or took worse pictures when shooting in something other that auto and wrote them off because there was no improvement in the quality of the pictures out of the box with the expensive camera and kit lens. Those would be the same people who bought a K-1000 back in the day and took crap pictures until the finally stuffed in in a drawer and bought a film point and shoot camera.

Then you have the true believer class who think that their particular brand of cellphone is the be all end all and believe the marketing hype that heavily diffraction limited system with a tiny noisy sensor that has lots of saturation and sharpening applied in post is actually a rival to DSLRs. And for those who think I am referring to a specific brand I'm not I've seen Apple, Samsung, Google, and Huawei phone owners all claim that their phones take better pictures than a DSLR.

[house]

They have to have an interest in something that a slr facilitates. If they are *only* into say sports or video games it's unlikely to work. If they are more creative types or have interests that can be coupled with manual lens photography it's more likely to work. Figure out what they are interested in and photograph that. Be it fashion, some gadget/machine, nature or even some fanciful dressing up thing. Try not to be judgemental about the subject.

Many young people (teenage to 20's) are amazed by old tactile machines and might like them just for that.

[pcrichmond]

I think you might be in for a real challenge.
I face the same situation with people who ask if I can teach them how I acquired a shot. From what I’m seeing, this is where the digital age has hindered true photography.
With all the advantages digital cameras (dslr to smartphone) & digital PP bring us, it is now so much easier to achieve a high quality image. Which = instant gratification or instant disappointment.
The importance is always on the image and not actually the “process of working with light.”

I try to suggest activities such as light painting, close focus / extreme macro, detailed lunar or anything that would be difficult to produce with a phone AND where the final image is just a product of getting out and enjoying doing something fun while bringing a camera along.

There is little distinction left between digital art and photography. If we can’t teach the joy in the process of “writing with light” then the phone will always be more than adequate for most.

[gofour3]

So, why do you think a newer photographer would want to give a real camera with a manual focus lens a try? What short "elevator speech" would you tell a young smartphone generation person that might get them to give a real camera and manual focus lens a try?

I'd think you would have better luck giving them a film camera and manual focus lens. The idea/process of them shooting film might be more interesting than just using a DSLR.

The local lab I use for my film processing has lots of "young-ins" coming in and dropping off film. There are many film options for them to try (E6 to lomo, as well as B&W), also medium format film seems to be popular with them as well.

Phil.

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I currently own no modern auto-focus lenses. All of my lenses are film-era, manual-focus, primes from the last century. While I can afford the latest and greatest auto focus lenses, I still prefer to shoot manual-focus lenses. I'm an old guy who grew up manual focusing. Heck, I used to shoot birds in flight with manual focusing lenses.

I prefer the build, tactile feedback when focusing, the ruggedness, the bokeh, and the overall rendering of older manual-focus prime lenses. Also, it doesn't hurt that many fine old manual focus lenses are inexpensive. I use live-view with a 3X Zacuto viewfinder and actually nail focus with my manual focus lenses more often than I did when I had auto-focus lenses.

I have way too many 2005 - 2012 era digital camera bodies and was thinking of giving some of them with a few of my lesser used manual focus lenses to my grand-kids. They all have smartphones and sometimes use their built-in smartphone cameras.

I'm searching for something to tell them that would motivate them to want to give a real camera with a manual focus lens a serious try. While many real cameras have huge megapixels, the bodies I'm giving them will have only 10 - 14 megapixels (comparable to the resolution of their phones) - so increased resolution from a real camera isn't an incentive. Their smartphones can produce pseudo out of focus blurs, so I don't expect they'd get very excited about using fast manual focus lenses on a real camera to produce nice bokeh. Their smartphones are lighter, always with them, and smartphone photos can be immediately posted to the Internet without wasting time with post processing (these young people don't even have access to a laptop or a desktop computer).

So, why do you think a newer photographer would want to give a real camera with a manual focus lens a try? What short "elevator speech" would you tell a young smartphone generation person that might get them to give a real camera and manual focus lens a try?
.

I guess you gave your grand kids the old books you used to read as well. But we all know that younger people do not like to read like we did. Instead of the book they either watch the film or read the survey. They do that because it takes less time and is easier. The same goes for using a smartphone to make pictures. Why would you take away their kind of art they have with using the smartphone?

[timb64]

Encourage them to get into photography with their phone first,set them challenges,critique the results.Then you can introduce what a “proper” camera is capable of.As the old saying goes “slowly,slowly catchy monkey!”

[photoptimist]

Some may think that few phone users will convert to real cameras and they may be right. Sure, most people just want a "good" picture with the least fuss -- they want to simply point the phone/camera at the subject and snap the picture with that subject in focus.

But for some, the opportunity to control the plane of focus, see how different parts of the scene come into sharp relief whilst others blur into bokeh can be a magical revelation. Modern AF cameras are actually too fast to reveal this powerful compositional tool -- they snap into focus so fast, the photographer doesn't really experience the shift in composition that happens with shift in focus. Manual focus lenses do more than just give control, they teach the budding photographer what it really means to have control. Maybe many don't care but some will prize this revelation.

One of the greatest gifts that experienced enthusiasts can give to younger people is a chance to try different activities, hobbies, professions, etc. Sure, it's a bit of a numbers game with a proverbial 9 out of 10 not really resonating with "serious" photography or whatever. Maybe those young people will turn to painting, music, baking, woodworking, or 3-D printing as a creative outlet or maybe they will gravitate to physical hobbies (running, biking, rock climbing), or whatever. But some will catch the photographic bug because someone took the time to show then something new (or old).

Some may think that few phone users will convert to real cameras and they may be right. Sure, most people just want a "good" picture with the least fuss -- they want to simply point the phone/camera at the subject and snap the picture with that subject in focus.

But for some, the opportunity to control the plane of focus, see how different parts of the scene come into sharp relief whilst others blur into bokeh can be a magical revelation. Modern AF cameras are actually too fast to reveal this powerful compositional tool -- they snap into focus so fast, the photographer doesn't really experience the shift in composition that happens with shift in focus. Manual focus lenses do more than just give control, they teach the budding photographer what it really means to have control. Maybe many don't care but some will prize this revelation.

One of the greatest gifts that experienced enthusiasts can give to younger people is a chance to try different activities, hobbies, professions, etc. Sure, it's a bit of a numbers game with a proverbial 9 out of 10 not really resonating with "serious" photography or whatever. Maybe those young people will turn to painting, music, baking, woodworking, or 3-D printing as a creative outlet or maybe they will gravitate to physical hobbies (running, biking, rock climbing), or whatever. But some will catch the photographic bug because someone took the time to show then something new (or old).

You seem to forget that using a smartphone also includes serious photography. It is a whole new way of recording history for posterity. Why would you do that with a Canon, a Nikon or even a Ricoh camera. You always have the phone with you and you do not need lugging heavy equipment. Why do you think that young (and old!) people make so many pictures with a smartphone, because they got the photographic bug. Within a few years you will see that even smartphones take pictures in RAW. That is to attract the "serious" photographer. Perhaps we can advise the new generation of photographers on how to compose a picture, but I think that you are only telling them how you would make a picture and that new generation have a mind of its own. Perhaps we can help them, but they are perfectly capable of taking pictures without interfering from us. And why do you think that all prominent smartphone developers are so busy improving and enhancing the photographic possibilities of their phones? Yes, smartphone users simply got the bug and ask for better quality for the pictures they want to make.

[Fenwoodian]

Why would you want to convince someone to use manual focus lenses?

Why? Because the only lenses I have laying around that I don't use and can give away are manual focus vintage lenses. I'm not going to go out and buy new auto focus lenses for the grandkids to "maybe" use.


Plus, I believe that a great way to start with photography is to first master the basics of manual lenses and fully manual camera settings. Once they are mastered, then move up to auto everything gear and modes.