[aslyfox]

first, if you have not done so, take a look at the user reviews and in depth reviews of the cameras and lenses you will find above under " cameras " and " lenses "

would an " improvement " in your camera body with your existing lenses do the trick ?
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second how do you intend on using your " birding " lens

- are you looking for a lens you can carry as you walk along searching

- are you looking for a lens to use from a hide or blind

- are you looking to use hand held or on a tripod or monopod

- would you be using the equipment in any type of weather ? do you need WR or AW or are cheaper methods of weather protection acceptable ?
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are you looking for lenses developed in the past or currently ?

are you planning on using Pentax only or are you willing to consider other makes ?

remember that many zooms developed in the past ( film period ) may not stack up well vs. primes of that era

some lenses " improved " over the years and earlier versions may be suitable and you may not need the " latest and brightest improvements " , for example, the DA 55 - 300mm series ?

would a D AL lenses work for you as opposed to a more expensive DA
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consider availability and whether you are looking for new or " experienced " equipment

I have had very good luck dealing with members through the market place " Buy/Sell " here at the forums
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please consider continuing to ask for opinions and advice from the members

as was said some of us love to advise you on how to spend YOUR money

good luck

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Last edited by aslyfox; 05-17-2020 at 04:50 AM.

[Lowell Goudge]

It is hard to imagine getting into birding and not spending $1-$2k. But it depends. The biggest thing you need to decide is how you plan to go birding? Most of mine is either travelling to other far away places or while walking my dog. I need something relatively small and compact, but still with reach and reasonable speed.

My mainstay is a sigma APO 70-200 F2.8 EX and the sigma APO 2X teleconverter. This is a screw drive setup, and the lens predates digital as it lacks the DG designation.

Lens plus TC is about 1.8 kilos, and is attached to either my K1 MKII or K5. The camera is the other side of the equation. The sensor of thenK5 and K1 have the same pixel density and excellent high iso performance.

For birding, the lens is only half the equation, high iso performance in the body is the other half of the equation.

If you want cheap, And light get a good MF prime and the1.7x af adaptor. I use mine with a K300/4 for 510mm ~F7. This pair come in at about 1.1 kilo

If you can, you want this option with a KA mount or later so you can use p-TTL flash

[normhead]

You're not using it wrong, 2x teleconverters take a great toll on sharpness and only the top-end ones are any good - and they require the main lens to be fast and sharp ($$$).

For a TC to be good with a 2x converter, the lens has to out resolve the sensor by a factor of 2. That's rare. That being said any DA* (60-25, 300) or the 560 or 150-450. But if you take a 70-300 type of lens, and use a 2x with it's already soft, now it will be twice as soft.

[rogerstg]

Even on a tripod the pictures were never sharp. I either am using it wrong or i bought a cheap one.

A very sturdy tripod will make more difference for you than a lens or camera upgrade. A gimbal head helps immensely with BIF. Also, use the tripod foot spikes when outdoors. Every little bit helps, and sometimes the difference between good and great is a little bit.

This Innorel tripod is an excellent value and a fraction of the price of a comparable Gitzo.

[Sandy Hancock]

A used K-3 (ideally the Mark II) would be a good place to spend the first $500. The higher resolution, vastly improved autofocus, better high ISO performance, fast burst speed and deep buffer will all help with birding.

As for lenses, the current DA 55-300 PLM will be leaps and bounds better than your current old Sigma zoom. Although a little slower, it is nicely sharp wide open, has super-fast AF and much less purple fringing. When you can consistently nail great bird shots with that you can think about investing in longer lenses. That should give you plenty of time to save up

[normhead]

So I am trying to find a good lens for some bird photography. I am currently using a Sigma DG 70-300 1:4 - 5.6 on a K-r camera.

10 years ago, I was in exactly your position.

The store salesman, the same guy who sold me my Sigma 70-300 recommended the Sigma 70-200 2.8 with the 2x TC, I can't tell you how many times I've regretted not taking his advice. I have since purchased the DA*60-250, DA*200, DA 55-300 PLM, and an older Tamron 300 2.8 which I use with the HD DA 1.4 TC, F 1.7x AF adapter and Tamron 2x TC (7 element). I also tried out the Sigma 120-400 and found it no better in the long end than the 70-300.

I'd recommend an A-400 ƒ5.6. They can be had relatively cheaply, the IQ is not superlative, but still way ahead of the Sigma 70-300 or Sigma 120-400. It kept me busy until I had more money to fill out my line up.

The problem with TC's is they only take great images on great lenses. It's a double whammy, the lens has to be expensive, the TC has to be expensive.The lens has to out resolve the sensor by the same factor as the magnification. That being said, many good lenses will out resolve your K-r.

I seriously can't recommend anything under 400mm for birding.

On APS-c my preferred setup is the Tamron 300 with the 1.7x TC.
On the K-1 it's the Tamron 300 with the 2x TC.

510mm and 600mm respectively.

My only "final answer" recommendation in your situation would be maybe be a used K-70 and a DA 55-300 PLM.
The K-r resolution is fine, but it won't use the PLM lens and won't make maximum use of any of the current line up.. I've been using the DA 55-300 PLM with the 1.4 TC to get out to 420mm and it works fine, in excellent light. (But in low light under the canopy I can't even get it to focus sometimes.)

Pentax K-3 and DA 55-300 with 1.4 TC


Of course the 1.4 TC costs almost as much as the 55-300. But that gear will keep you happy for years, until you're willing to lay out the big bucks for some fast aperture lenses.

There is simply no cheap way to do this.

So, I'll just go back to an A-400 for your K-r. That will get you started. But you should probably look on it as a temporary solution. Especially with small birds that move quickly, MF is a serious disadvantage.

A-400 ƒ5.6 on a K-5, just to get you interested.


For birding on APS-c 400 (although I have many good images taken at 350mm with the 60-250 and TC) is the minimum, on an FF 600mm.

I have many bird images here https://www.flickr.com/photos/149541448@N08/albums/72157683751426530/with/35777310235/ and here https://www.flickr.com/photos/149541448@N08/albums/72157685465665753

Taken with all kinds of combinations, at least one taken with a K-x (almost the same as your K-r.)

K-x and DA*60-250


So you can get started with your K-r... but there isn't much that costs more in photography than birding.

And you won't be doing your best until you get to 500-600mm
My latest "lifer" captures, both taken with he Tamron 300 2.8 and 1.7 TC. in the last month.




SO good luck in your search, but in birding, you're looking down a money pit. Lenses that can operate with decent magnification and are sharp at distance are never cheap. Even the second hand ones start at around 3k.

One additional comment, the FA 300 4.5 has been recommended. We looked for one for years and never found one at a good enough price to make up for it being slower and not WR like the DA* 300. Usually on the forum and elsewhere, the DA*300 and HD DA 1.4 TC are the standard basic recommendation along with a 24MP sensor. And I personally would suggest not using a TC on a lens less than ƒ4. The DA 55-300 PLM being an exception based on it's light weight, but, you do have to have bright light to make it work.

[universalfocus]

I´m a bit in the same situation. I´ve tried the Sigma 70-300 on the K-1 cropped and it´s kind of ok, but nothing to get really close. Currently I´m using a Carl Zeiss Jena 300mm f4. .It´s good for birds in the city, but for wildlife it´s too short I guess (still testing it, so I´ve not made my final opinion about it yet). CA´s and fringing in the example images for the Carl Zeiss removed and the images are also a bit sharpened. I was about 4 to 6m away from the birds, so I didn´t need to crop to APS-C on the K-1.

I agree with those who suggest a range of about 500 to 600mm. But after my experience with the Carl Zeiss, I tend towards a MFT system (probably Panasonic) for birding, because of the size and price in FF (would still use it for other tasks).

I know that a MFT Kit will probably only give good results on sunny days, but I just can´t afford or transport a DA 560mm or DFA 150-450mm.

Attached Images

     

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Last edited by universalfocus; 05-17-2020 at 11:34 AM.

[SSGGeezer]

A used K-3 (ideally the Mark II) would be a good place to spend the first $500. The higher resolution, vastly improved autofocus, better high ISO performance, fast burst speed and deep buffer will all help with birding.

As for lenses, the current DA 55-300 PLM will be leaps and bounds better than your current old Sigma zoom. Although a little slower, it is nicely sharp wide open, has super-fast AF and much less purple fringing. When you can consistently nail great bird shots with that you can think about investing in longer lenses. That should give you plenty of time to save up

But the PLM will NOT work with a Kr. There are new K-70s popping up on sale for about the 500 you are talking about. Heck the KP has been below 600 a time or two over the past several months. Both would show you what you are missing, (if anything,) using the older Sigma lens.

[dirwood]

Thanks for all the good advice. Its a lot to take in for sure but it seems like upgrading my camera should come first and most likely cheaper option as well if I sell my K-r. Will lens that work with the K-r work with the KP or K-70's?

[automorphism]

I used to bird with the FA*300 on the K50. Took shots of about 400 species with it, maybe around 15000 shots.


The AF was mediocre but it produced beautiful images and worked well for still birds. Wide open performance is bad, by f/5.6 it is good. Under controlled testing it reached maximum sharpness at f/6.3. I am fairly demanding for sharpness also. Teleconverter performance was poor, and the disadvantages of having to stop down and lose light negated the slight resolution increase simply because birds are very demanding compared to larger or slower moving animals.


Good for closer or larger birds, or for environmental shots. Relatively easy to manual focus. In fact manual focus was usually faster than AF on the K50 (initial acquisition was reasonable, but this lens tended to hunt a lot). Pretty much useless for BIF, but occasionally with patience I could get a small number of keepers in this area.

For the price, I would actually recommend this lens as with knowing your subject and patience, you'll get great shots. I won't give you as many keepers as a more expensive rig, but it will serve you well.

[dirwood]

Also, I have been getting grief from the wife since i started mentioning the prices of a new (to me) lens. So after I mentioned the possibility to upgrade the camera body instead, she lost it . I would like to think it would be cheaper (for now) to find a good used camera body and sell my K-r and continue using my Sigma 70-300 and other lenses then upgrade the lenses in a year or 2....

---------- Post added 05-17-20 at 05:02 PM ----------

I am also still a novice at all this so I am learning as I go. Only recently have to strayed from using AutoPict setting and started using the manual exposure setting or Aperture priority setting.

[skierd]

@normhead The Pentax HD 1.4x works well with the 55-300 PLM? That’s good to know.

[normhead]

@normhead The Pentax HD 1.4x works well with the 55-300 PLM? That’s good to know.

yes but for best results dial back to about 270mm, but still not bad fully extended. And you have to have a lot of light to focus.

---------- Post added 05-17-20 at 05:23 PM ----------

Also, I have been getting grief from the wife since i started mentioning the prices of a new (to me) lens. So after I mentioned the possibility to upgrade the camera body instead, she lost it .

I hate it when the happens.

[Sandy Hancock]

Will lens that work with the K-r work with the KP or K-70's?

Yes, absolutely. All new Pentax cameras will work with every K-mount lens ever made.

[dirwood]

Yes, absolutely. All new Pentax cameras will work with every K-mount lens ever made.

Thats what i thought but figured I would double check.

---------- Post added 05-17-20 at 06:15 PM ----------

For the other questions on shooting style. I shoot from the recliner in my living room through the window at the feeders and usually when i'm walking the property or if I go somewhere different for a hike. Everything I do is handheld. The only time I used my tripod is for photos of the moon and that was it.


I think I know my plan of action now. I will invest in a new camera body first. (KP seems to be the way to go in my price range if I wait it out alittle or I will research the k-3 mark ii). Then I will start shopping for the prime lens (DA 300).