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06-24-2020, 08:06 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenObermeier Quote
This is a heavy gun - coming from the 77 it feels like you have 3 times the weight in the hand. The camera with grip and lens is about 2770 grams. But the weight still feels well distributed.

---------- Post added 06-23-20 at 12:07 AM ----------

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for your answer on my question. As long the weight distribution is okay, I am fine with that.


Kind regards,

Ron

06-24-2020, 10:37 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Just call me Mr Wolfe
Great reference!
06-24-2020, 04:17 PM - 9 Likes   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote

I discovered the ignore function a while back
Yeah, that's not my concern at all, the effect on me. It's the damage done to the thread, to the quality of information and discussion in the thread, often involving opinion without facts, and often deliberately so, that affects the forum as a whole. That poison stands for the public to see unless it's cleaned up.

That's the issue for me, 'ignoring' doesn't solve that.

And it is something that happens repeatedly in News and Rumours rather than elsewhere, from posters who have no genuine interest in the welfare of this community. They don't partake in the photos, the challenges that happen elsewhere, or help others with artistic or technical problems.

I'd have no problem with a rule that said you could not post or even comment in News and Rumours unless you were a paid up forum member, just like the For Sale threads.

It would be quality rather than quantity of posts, and 'Drive By' shootings would disappear
06-24-2020, 11:06 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, that's not my concern at all, the effect on me. It's the damage done to the thread, to the quality of information and discussion in the thread, often involving opinion without facts, and often deliberately so, that affects the forum as a whole. That poison stands for the public to see unless it's cleaned up.

That's the issue for me, 'ignoring' doesn't solve that.

And it is something that happens repeatedly in News and Rumours rather than elsewhere, from posters who have no genuine interest in the welfare of this community. They don't partake in the photos, the challenges that happen elsewhere, or help others with artistic or technical problems.

I'd have no problem with a rule that said you could not post or even comment in News and Rumours unless you were a paid up forum member, just like the For Sale threads.

It would be quality rather than quantity of posts, and 'Drive By' shootings would disappear
Interesting idea. Could we get some stats on this kinda thing? How many non paid up members are talking smack and contributing little? I mean I talk smack, but I am a paid up member and I contribute so it's all good

06-24-2020, 11:22 PM - 3 Likes   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Interesting idea. Could we get some stats on this kinda thing? How many non paid up members are talking smack and contributing little? I mean I talk smack, but I am a paid up member and I contribute so it's all good
I think even if a sneaky troll or a bitter ex-Pentaxian wants to pay their money, they'll still be subject to the normal Forum rules, let 'em, at least they're contributing to the running of the place for their weird, little sociopathic exercise.

The workload on moderators would drop. They're unpaid, and are busy enough dealing with new dummy accounts posting ads for Cialis or whatever, the last thing they want to do is respond to some outbreaking fire in a 'DFA*21 is not for me, Pentax is doomed' thread.
06-25-2020, 12:40 AM - 2 Likes   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think even if a sneaky troll or a bitter ex-Pentaxian wants to pay their money, they'll still be subject to the normal Forum rules, let 'em, at least they're contributing to the running of the place for their weird, little sociopathic exercise.

The workload on moderators would drop. They're unpaid, and are busy enough dealing with new dummy accounts posting ads for Cialis or whatever, the last thing they want to do is respond to some outbreaking fire in a 'DFA*21 is not for me, Pentax is doomed' thread.
Hmm interesting potential demographic, Cialis consuming bitter Ex-Pentaxians Sociopaths, if it wasn't for the ex-pentaxian part I might consider joining. In the meantime, the best way to minimise the Pentax is doomed threads is to purchase new products
So glad to see some pictures from the new lens after years of being teased. I even sat through 12 minutes of a Japanese youtube video just to look at the lens on the K1 and see some more images, now tell me more about that DFA* 21mm........... it might be for me
06-25-2020, 05:29 AM - 7 Likes   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, that's not my concern at all, the effect on me. It's the damage done to the thread, to the quality of information and discussion in the thread, often involving opinion without facts, and often deliberately so, that affects the forum as a whole. That poison stands for the public to see unless it's cleaned up.
You are right, of course, but what is becoming a bigger concern for us, more troublesome than the brand bashing is the people bashing. The posts aren't visible as we've deleted them but there were quite a few in this thread that were whiny and critical. Not of the lens, but of the OP. Not "thanks for taking the time to do this" but "wrong subject, bad lighting, too close, too far,...................". Two days ago a member started a thread regarding file size comparison asking about # of photos on a card, etc. One of the replies was
QuoteQuote:
What is use in this? Do not think this has anything to do with the fun of taking pictures. I have probably 20,000 files and not one has the same amount of kb except by accident, so to speak. I advice you to use your time making pictures. But why did you come up with this idea? What is the idea behind it?
THAT'S the kind of thing that's more likely driving members away; more so than brand bashing. That's also the kind of thing responsible for what will be far more liberal use of the "Delete Post" and "Ban User From Thread" buttons by moderators going forward.

[/RANT]

06-25-2020, 06:54 AM - 2 Likes   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
You are right, of course, but what is becoming a bigger concern for us, more troublesome than the brand bashing is the people bashing. The posts aren't visible as we've deleted them but there were quite a few in this thread that were whiny and critical. Not of the lens, but of the OP. Not "thanks for taking the time to do this" but "wrong subject, bad lighting, too close, too far,...................". Two days ago a member started a thread regarding file size comparison asking about # of photos on a card, etc. One of the replies was THAT'S the kind of thing that's more likely driving members away; more so than brand bashing. That's also the kind of thing responsible for what will be far more liberal use of the "Delete Post" and "Ban User From Thread" buttons by moderators going forward.

[/RANT]
Thank you. And thank you.
06-25-2020, 06:56 AM - 1 Like   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think even if a sneaky troll or a bitter ex-Pentaxian wants to pay their money, they'll still be subject to the normal Forum rules, let 'em, at least they're contributing to the running of the place for their weird, little sociopathic exercise.

The workload on moderators would drop. They're unpaid, and are busy enough dealing with new dummy accounts posting ads for Cialis or whatever, the last thing they want to do is respond to some outbreaking fire in a 'DFA*21 is not for me, Pentax is doomed' thread.
What would be nice to see is a decrease in thread hijacking, such as when a thread about the D FA* 85/1.4 gets completely hijacked.
Most of the worst trolls here are paying members.
Just sayin’

Last edited by Wheatfield; 06-25-2020 at 02:19 PM.
06-25-2020, 07:12 AM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
.......THAT'S the kind of thing that's more likely driving members away; more so than brand bashing. That's also the kind of thing responsible for what will be far more liberal use of the "Delete Post" and "Ban User From Thread" buttons by moderators going forward.

[/RANT]
I love your rants! Many of us appreciate the hard work the mods put in here. PF, most of the time, is the best marketing Pentax could have.
06-25-2020, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
What would be nice to see is a decrease in thread hijacking, such as when a thread about the D FA* 85/1.4 gets completely hijacked by people complaining about trolls.
Most of the worst trolls here are paying members.
Just sayin’
I've never understood the problem of threads being 'hijacked', personally I don't see the problem at all when a thread moves on a tangent. Just because the thread started out as A and then moved to B and C doesn't stop a single person from asking or making a point relevant back to point A again. I could understand more the issue of hijacking when we couldn't use quotes, but nowadays I just say let the thread flow wherever man. Otherwise tbh the thread can also be dull, I mean how many posts do you want to hear from people saying stuff like "OooH! Exciting, can't wait!" ZZz... so boring. Hijacking has shown to often make threads richer and more diverse and it's clearly not a problem for anyone to ignore the hijack and make a point pertaining to the original points rather than the tangent points.
06-25-2020, 01:35 PM - 2 Likes   #87
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Who's a troll and who isn't could be one of the monster threads of the century.

Interesting when I peek in on what is coming from users I've ignored, and they are complaining about trolls. I guess one person's knowledgeable user is another person's troll.
06-25-2020, 01:47 PM - 2 Likes   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I've never understood the problem of threads being 'hijacked', personally I don't see the problem at all when a thread moves on a tangent. Just because the thread started out as A and then moved to B and C doesn't stop a single person from asking or making a point relevant back to point A again. I could understand more the issue of hijacking when we couldn't use quotes, but nowadays I just say let the thread flow wherever man. Otherwise tbh the thread can also be dull, I mean how many posts do you want to hear from people saying stuff like "OooH! Exciting, can't wait!" ZZz... so boring. Hijacking has shown to often make threads richer and more diverse and it's clearly not a problem for anyone to ignore the hijack and make a point pertaining to the original points rather than the tangent points.

The problem is when a person comes to a thread expecting to read about, for example, the D FA* 85mm f/1.4 lens, and finds little information relating to the thread title and lots of what is nothing more than random noise such as: Pentax will/won't, should/shouldn't make an MILC, Fuji equivalent of the 645D killed Pentax MF market, KAF4 mount is doomed (No it's not, yes it is, no it's not, yes it is, oh yeah?!, yeah! ), DSLRs are doomed, etc, the forum looses it's usefulness and people move on to other forums, or even other brands because we look like a bunch of halfwits.

We've had two threads regarding the new lens closed because of hijacking, meaning discussion of a new and decidedly exciting product in the Pentax world has been made impossible by some very self centered people. I include myself, as I have contributed by not staying on topic to the thread by allowing myself to get sucked in by off topic posts. This reply to you has nothing to do with the thread, for example. It is part of a hijack.

Some people will always be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
My goal is to do better.
What, if anything, is your goal?

Last edited by Wheatfield; 06-25-2020 at 02:03 PM.
06-25-2020, 01:58 PM   #89
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06-25-2020, 02:04 PM - 2 Likes   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The problem is when a person comes to a thread expecting to read about, for example, the D FA* 85mm f/1.4 lens, and finds little information relating to the thread title and lots of what is nothing more than random noise such as: Pentax will/won't, should/shouldn't make an MILC, Fuji equivalent of the 645D killed Pentax MF market, KAF4 mount is doomed (No it's not, yes it is, no it's not, yes it is, oh yeah?!, yeah! ), DSLRs are doomed, etc, the forum looses it's usefulness and people move on to other forums, or even other brands because we look like a bunch of halfwits.

We've had two threads regarding the new lens closed because of hijacking, meaning discussion of a new and decidedly exciting product in the Pentax world has been made impossible by some very self centered people. I include myself, as I have contributed by not staying on topic to the thread and allowing myself to get sucked in by off topic posts. This reply to you has nothing to do with the thread, for example. It is part of a hijack.

Some people will always be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
My goal is to do better.
What, if anything, is your goal?
I'm saying its natural for a conversation to go off on tangents, happens all the time irl! All we need is for there to be a sober person in the room so that after the tangent is finished and the person says "Umm... what were we talking about?" we are able to get back to OP. But tangents can be useful and informative. Thankfully you can just scroll through the tangent till you see the thread get back onto a place that is of interest to you, I just don't see the big deal. The nature of the tangent does not make halfwits, people do. What they say, regardless if the info is on point with OP or on point with the tangent. What you're really trying to say is that tangents can cause arguments whereas I see dumb arguments a plenty (and been guilty of partaking in said dumb arguments) even when they are on point.

No thread should ever be closed, period. That tbh is just poor moderating and admin. Temporary closures are fine, so admin/mods can clean up and deal with naughty members, but they shouldn't be closed indef, ever.
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